Misdefining "family"

[Rob Osborn]

Public opinion surveys indicate that people everywhere in the world generally consider the family as the highest priority; yet in recent years the broader culture seems to ignore or misdefine the family. Consider some of the changes of the past decade:

 

• •

  In the name of “tolerance,” the definition of family has been expanded beyond recognition to the point that “family” can be any individuals of any gender who live together with or without commitment or children or attention to consequence.

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2005/11/what-matters-most-is-what-lasts-longest

Recently I was not allowed to post a CFR on how the church does and does not define "family". If I get banned for posting this then so be it but let it be known- I do answer my CFR's. It may take a few days but I do get it.

 

Heres more-

 

Family

See also Child, Children; Father, Mortal; Marriage, Marry; Mother

As used in the scriptures, a family consists of a husband and wife, children, and sometimes other relatives living in the same house or under one family head. A family can also be a single parent with children, a husband and wife without children, or even a single person living alone.

Eternal family

The Doctrine and Covenants sets forth the eternal nature of the marriage relationship and the family. Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable husbands and wives to become gods (D&C 132:15–20).

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/family?lang=eng&letter=f

 

http://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng

 

Let there be no doubt on how the LDS church defines family of the which a gay couple is "Not a family". There, I said my piece.

[Scott Lloyd]

Recently I was not allowed to post a CFR on how the church does and does not define "family". If I get banned for posting this then so be it but let it be known- I do answer my CFR's. It may take a few days but I do get it.

 

Heres more-

 

Family

See also Child, Children; Father, Mortal; Marriage, Marry; Mother

As used in the scriptures, a family consists of a husband and wife, children, and sometimes other relatives living in the same house or under one family head. A family can also be a single parent with children, a husband and wife without children, or even a single person living alone.

Eternal family

The Doctrine and Covenants sets forth the eternal nature of the marriage relationship and the family. Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable husbands and wives to become gods (D&C 132:15–20).

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/family?lang=eng&letter=f

 

http://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng

 

Let there be no doubt on how the LDS church defines family of the which a gay couple is "Not a family". There, I said my piece.

I will agree with this and add that one of the means used by the adversary to attack the family in recent years is to endeavor to corrupt the very definition of the word.

[BCSpace]

If this was your original quote:

 

yet in recent years the broader culture seems to ignore or misdefine the family. Consider some of the changes of the past decade:

 

• In the name of “tolerance,” the definition of family has been expanded beyond recognition to the point that “family” can be any individuals of any gender who live together with or without commitment or children or attention to consequence.

 

 

...it was it's own CFR. Couldn't be plainer.

[california boy]

Just what would the church do if two gay men and a legally adopted child wanted to join the church?

[Rob Osborn]

If this was your original quote:

...it was it's own CFR. Couldn't be plainer.

That quote is from Elder Russell M. Ballard in the Ensign given in recent years. He says that society has misdefined family to include couples of the same sex living together of which the Church does not recognize as a "family" definition. Edited December 10, 2013 by Rob Osborn

[ERayR]

Just what would the church do if two gay men and a legally adopted child wanted to join the church?

 

There is a chastity issue in your what if.

[BCSpace]

Just what would the church do if two gay men and a legally adopted child wanted to join the church?

 

They would be taught the Law of Chasity and expected to live it just like anyone else.  If they were married, they would have to separate.

[Rob Osborn]

Just what would the church do if two gay men and a legally adopted child wanted to join the church?

If the two gay men are practicing homosexual behavior with each other they cant join the church until they repent and no longer perform homosexual behavior. The child can join with a legal parents permission.

[stemelbow]

Aren't we all just part of one large family--with Heavenly Father presiding as Father and Heavenly Mother as Mother?  If so, why can't we call a group of any of us be called a family?  Seems strange not to call it such to me.

 

Sometimes my immediate family gets together, but often my sister or brother aren't present.  My dad has passed too.  So we're only a partial family.  It seems pretty similar to me.  I say call any group of any two or more of us a family, and be happy about it. 

[BCSpace]

Aren't we all just part of one large family--with Heavenly Father presiding as Father and Heavenly Mother as Mother?  If so, why can't we call a group of any of us be called a family?  Seems strange not to call it such to me.

 

Sometimes my immediate family gets together, but often my sister or brother aren't present.  My dad has passed too.  So we're only a partial family.  It seems pretty similar to me.  I say call any group of any two or more of us a family, and be happy about it.

 

Sure.  But I assume we are talking about family in some sort of salvational sense.  For example, to enter the highest degree in the Celestial glory, one must be heterosexually married.  No other type of relationship is accepted.

Edited December 10, 2013 by BCSpace

[Scott Lloyd]

Sure.  But I assume we are talking about family in some sort of salvational sense.  For example, to enter the highest degree in the Celestial glory, one must be heterosexually married.  No other type of relationship is accepted.

And if we use the Heavenly Family referenced in stemelbow's post as a model, we would have to define the concept as husband, wife (father, mother) and offspring.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Rob Osborn]

Aren't we all just part of one large family--with Heavenly Father presiding as Father and Heavenly Mother as Mother?  If so, why can't we call a group of any of us be called a family?  Seems strange not to call it such to me.

 

Sometimes my immediate family gets together, but often my sister or brother aren't present.  My dad has passed too.  So we're only a partial family.  It seems pretty similar to me.  I say call any group of any two or more of us a family, and be happy about it.

In the large definition we all are family. However, the family unit as defined by the church is the traditional family with mother an father legally married. When the leaders speak of "family" in talks, official publications, manuals, etc, this is how it is defined

[stemelbow]

Sure.  But I assume we are talking about family in some sort of salvational sense.  For example, to enter the highest degree in the Celestial glory, one must be heterosexually married.  No other type of relationship is accepted.

 

That's news to me.  I thought I"d still have the relationship with my kids and parents for instance. I think all types of relationships are accepted.  Friends, lovers, parents, children. 

[AndyDnom]

I know this will make me sound like the dumbest person in the world, but what does CFR stand for?

 

Yes, I've googled it, and it isn't on urban dictionary, and everything else is about the Council on Foreign Relations.

 

Thx in advance for not calling me a bird brain

[stemelbow]

And if we use the Heavenly Family referenced in stemelbow's post as a model, we would have to define the concept as husband, wife (father, mother) and offspring.

 

Yes but any gathering of any of those constitutes family.  If I gather with my brother, his wife and kids, with my wife and kids, we're all just family.  Similarly, if I'm alone someday and live with some other dude who I love (not sexually) we could in a sense be family living together too.  I ain't afraid to think of that way. 

[stemelbow]

I know this will make me sound like the dumbest person in the world, but what does CFR stand for?

 

Yes, I've googled it, and it isn't on urban dictionary, and everything else is about the Council on Foreign Relations.

 

Thx in advance for not calling me a bird brain

 

It's a Call For Reference.  Used to make someone support their claim with some sort of evidence. 

 

Bird brain's don't have a right to call other people bird brains.

 

edited to add:  see I even typed out bird brain's as possessive in the above sentence. 

Edited December 10, 2013 by stemelbow

[Scott Lloyd]

I know this will make me sound like the dumbest person in the world, but what does CFR stand for?

 

Yes, I've googled it, and it isn't on urban dictionary, and everything else is about the Council on Foreign Relations.

 

Thx in advance for not calling me a bird brain

It does mean Council on Foreign Relations. We're all veiled John Birchers.

 

(Just kidding.)

 

It stands for "call for references." When someone issues a "CFR," it means he/she is challenging the receiver to document his/her claims in some way, usually by a quote, an Internet link, or reference to a book or periodical.

 

As I understand it, board rules call for a person to either answer the CFR or withrdaw the claim.

[BCSpace]

Sure.  But I assume we are talking about family in some sort of salvational sense.  For example, to enter the highest degree in the Celestial glory, one must be heterosexually married.  No other type of relationship is accepted.

 

That's news to me.  I thought I"d still have the relationship with my kids and parents for instance. I think all types of relationships are accepted.  Friends, lovers, parents, children.

 

It shouldn't be news that LDS doctrine is that only heterosexually married couples attain exaltation.  That's the only sense I'm referring to (salvational) and am not implying other types of relationships won't exist in the kingdom of heaven.

 

I would however assert that the doctrinal implication is that there will be no homosexual relationships in any degree of glory.

[Scott Lloyd]

It shouldn't be news that LDS doctrine is that only heterosexually married couples attain exaltation.  That's the only sense I'm referring to (salvational) and am not implying other types of relationships won't exist in the kingdom of heaven.

 

I would however assert that the doctrinal implication is that there will be no homosexual relationships in any degree of glory.

Nor any other illicit sexual relationships.

[california boy]

If the two gay men are practicing homosexual behavior with each other they cant join the church until they repent and no longer perform homosexual behavior. The child can join with a legal parents permission.

Obviously if the gay couple wanted to join the church they would have to live the law of chastity.  What if they promised to do so.  What would happen to the child?

[Storm Rider]

Just what would the church do if two gay men and a legally adopted child wanted to join the church?

 

Similar situations occur with relative regularity in the mission field. All are welcome to be baptized if they repent and seek to follow the commandments of God. As soon as they repent they are baptized. 

 

In your scenario you talk of two gay men; there is no repentance necessary for being gay. However, if they are living together; that would necessarily be a need for repentance. The child is irrelevant to the situation. (S)he could be baptized at the age of accountability. 

[AndyDnom]

thank you much . what is the proper way to respond to a CFR? a hyperlink? is it that important? why is a guy claiming to be banned over a cfr?

[rodheadlee]

thank you much . what is the proper way to respond to a CFR? a hyperlink? is it that important? why is a guy claiming to be banned over a cfr?

If you don't back your statement up, you must retract it. If you presented it as a fact. No CFR for opinions.

[Rob Osborn]

Obviously if the gay couple wanted to join the church they would have to live the law of chastity.  What if they promised to do so.  What would happen to the child?

If they are living the law of chastity then no reason they cant be baptized. You do have a problem though if they consider themselves a "couple" and live under the same roof. I wouldnt pass that lifestyle off as living the law of chastity. The child can be baptized regardless of his or her parent's sexual attraction. At no point though is the church going to recognize the gay couple and child as a "family".

[changed]

Defining family is a hard one, when I first converted, I didn't have any family in the church, and felt very out-of-place, all the talks on "together forever", and people talking about their Mormon heritage always made me feel like I didn't belong there... Now I'm married and am one of the "perfect mormon families" with kids etc.  but I always try to be careful around single moms, or couples without kids etc. etc. I will say, that doing temple work helped me feel like I had a "real" family in those early years, so I will highly recommend temple work / family history work to those who feel like their family is incomplete  (and everyone's family at this point is incomplete when you think about it)