Rob Osborn Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Very well said, and I believe somewhat in the death bed confessions if it's sincere, because remember the parable of everyone being paid the same. This is where the gospel gets both very intriguing and interesting. Section 138 gives us some very intriguing insight into the gospel and how it is taught on the other side- the spirit world. Up until 138 was revealed it was believed to be impossible to repent after death, especially if you had already rejected it in mortality. Of great interest however is that the gospel is taught to both those who died ignorantly of the gospel and those who were in transgression by rejecting the message in mortality. By accepting the gospel, spirits can become clean and exit hell to await resurrection. The parable you mentioned holds true here in that all those who repent and become cleansed all receive the same gift of eternal life. This is oft overlooked or even disbelieved by our LDS doctrine in spte of it being true!
blooit Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I allow that they MAY be polygamists. But simple reproduction mathamatics says that polygamy can't be a requirement. I don't think mathematics become a problem with you are dealing with what are ultimately infinite numbers, if you follow me.
BCSpace Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 What I like about some of the teachings of BY is that they are not doctrinal, not being published by the Church, so I don't have to worry about going against those particular teachings. But that middle degree is interesting as it doesn't seem to be defined. When Brigham Young taught what he taught, was he teaching the audience as if it were trueor false? I don't think it matters. Does the Church consider it to be doctrine? Even BY himself stated he take the opportunity to review what he said before declaring it to be doctrine. On a side note, if Mormons go against the teachings of their own prophet (s), are they on the road to personal apostasy and/or excommunication? As long as such teachings are official doctrine (published by the Church), yes. But I think most of us are on that road though hopefully not very far down. For example, I don't accept the global Flood doctrine, therefore I am on the road to apostasy. I still do try my best to match my own views with doctrine first before stating them or acting upon them.
FriedofJesus Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 So it's common knowledge that there are 3 Kingdoms you can go to after you die: Celestial Kingdom, Terrestrial Kingdom, and Telestial Kingdom. There are 3 levels within the Celestial Kingdom itself, so I'm wondering if anyone knows for sure who goes to what level of the Celestial Kingdom? This is my guess: Highest level- Sealed through marriage in the temple2nd level- Endowed in the templeLower level- Baptized Does anyone think differently? There is no marriage in heaven. The words of Jesus: Matt 22 29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong,because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God: 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the crowd heard it, they were astonished at his teaching.
BCSpace Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 There is no marriage in heaven. The words of Jesus: Matt 22 That is correct. By the time the resurrection rolls around, it is too late to marry and therefore one cannot be saved (1 Corinthians 11:11).
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 What kind of people go to spirit prison and what kind of people go to spirit paradise?
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 This is where the gospel gets both very intriguing and interesting. Section 138 gives us some very intriguing insight into the gospel and how it is taught on the other side- the spirit world. Up until 138 was revealed it was believed to be impossible to repent after death, especially if you had already rejected it in mortality. Of great interest however is that the gospel is taught to both those who died ignorantly of the gospel and those who were in transgression by rejecting the message in mortality. By accepting the gospel, spirits can become clean and exit hell to await resurrection. The parable you mentioned holds true here in that all those who repent and become cleansed all receive the same gift of eternal life. This is oft overlooked or even disbelieved by our LDS doctrine in spte of it being true!Rob if you repent in this life, do you still go to spirit prison or spirit paradise since you were cleaned in this life?
BCSpace Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 What kind of people go to spirit prison The wicked and the ignorant. and what kind of people go to spirit paradise? The repentant and those who know of and accept the testimony of Jesus (those who have joined the LDS Church or ancient equivalent).
Maidservant Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Well I'm not sure exactly what ministering angels do. Well, you can start being one now if you want to. I think Maidservant was speaking of how even God is a servant if one is speaking of giving service/benefits/blessings to others. Yes. And I was challenging the way we normally think of things.
mfbukowski Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Very well said, and I believe somewhat in the death bed confessions if it's sincere, because remember the parable of everyone being paid the same.We have until the final judgement to repent and learn the gospel and do our best, and as long as we are doing our very best at that time, we have a shot at exaltation. Remember in the parable, even the workers who came on the job last did SOME work- presumably as much as they could do in the time allotted.
mfbukowski Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 The wicked and the ignorant. The repentant and those who know of and accept the testimony of Jesus (those who have joined the LDS Church or ancient equivalent).I would include other righteous people as well who have not (yet) accepted the gospel.
Calm Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 What kind of people go to spirit prison and what kind of people go to spirit paradise? What Are the Conditions in the Postmortal Spirit World?The prophet Alma in the Book of Mormon taught about two divisions or states in the spirit world:“The spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.“And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.“Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection” (Alma 40:12–14).The spirits are classified according to the purity of their lives and their obedience to the will of the Lord while on earth. The righteous and the wicked are separated (see 1 Nephi 15:28–30), but the spirits may progress as they learn gospel principles and live in accordance with them. The spirits in paradise can teach the spirits in prison (see D&C 138).For teachers: To help class members or family members understand the differences between paradise and spirit prison, consider drawing a vertical line in the middle of the board or on a large piece of paper, making two columns. At the top of one column, write State of the Righteous. At the top of the other column, write State of the Wicked. Ask members to describe each state in the spirit world, based on their reading in this section. Summarize their comments in the appropriate columns. ParadiseAccording to the prophet Alma, the righteous spirits rest from earthly care and sorrow. Nevertheless, they are occupied in doing the work of the Lord. President Joseph F. Smith saw in a vision that immediately afterJesus Christ was crucified, He visited the righteous in the spirit world. He appointed messengers, gave them power and authority, and commissioned them to “carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men” (D&C 138:30).The Church is organized in the spirit world, and priesthood holders continue their responsibilities there (see D&C 138:30). President Wilford Woodruff taught: “The same Priesthood exists on the other side of the veil. … Every Apostle, every Seventy, every Elder, etc., who has died in the faith as soon as he passes to the other side of the veil, enters into the work of the ministry” (Deseret News, Jan. 25, 1882, 818).Family relationships are also important. President Jedediah M. Grant, a counselor to Brigham Young, saw the spirit world and described to Heber C. Kimball the organization that exists there: “He said that the people he there saw were organized in family capacities. … He said, ‘When I looked at families, there was a deficiency in some, … for I saw families that would not be permitted to come and dwell together, because they had not honored their calling here’” (Deseret News, Dec. 10, 1856, 316–17). Spirit PrisonThe Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom. http://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 So if you're an LDS and you've repented as much as you can, you should go to spirit paradise. I like to try and know my current standing in the plan of salvation.
BCSpace Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I would include other righteous people as well who have not (yet) accepted the gospel. I could agree with that. But look at say, D&C 138:21 for an exception. Can one be considered righteous in this sense if they are righteous in all other ways but reject the prophets (teachings of the Church)?
BCSpace Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 So if you're an LDS and you've repented as much as you can, you should go to spirit paradise. I like to try and know my current standing in the plan of salvation. I think such a one would generally be good to go for that.
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 I think such a one would generally be good to go for that.Thank goodness. I hope all nice LDS go to Spirit Paradise.
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 My life was a lot easier before I learned about the different possibilities of where we might end up. Once I learned I started worrying about which one I'm going to.
Kind Debater Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 While we are told that those who go to the Telestial and Terrestrial Kingdoms can never reenter God's presence, and we are told that the bottom degree of the Celestial Kingdom will remain single, I believe these designations apply to a specific probation or time frame. In the lower kingdoms, what does it mean to not be able to enter God's presence? Is there any prayer or worship or communication with God? It is said that even the lowest kingdom will be so joyful that if we could see it now, we might actually kill ourselves just to go there. And that is the lowest kingdom! How can the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms be good places to be if the people there can't be with God?
BCSpace Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) How can the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms be good places to be if the people there can't be with God? I highly recommend "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis; an interesting read. It's about that exact type of thing. The pre-published working title was Who Goes Home? Not saying it's LDS doctrine, but I think it will give your thought process on this subject something really good to chew on. Edited November 7, 2013 by BCSpace 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 6, 2013 Author Posted November 6, 2013 In the lower kingdoms, what does it mean to not be able to enter God's presence? Is there any prayer or worship or communication with God?How can the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms be good places to be if the people there can't be with God?That's a very good question. I too want to know what those kingdoms are like. But I'd rather not go to them. I have higher ambitions.
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 6, 2013 Author Posted November 6, 2013 And how come Jesus never talked about the different kingdoms? He obviously knew about them. Was it not important to know about them in the Bible?
JLHPROF Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 And how come Jesus never talked about the different kingdoms? He obviously knew about them. Was it not important to know about them in the Bible? Do you really think we have all the words of Jesus? Or that anything not in keeping with popular doctrine wasn't redacted over time? We have Paul's reference to kingdoms, and the Savior did say in my father's house are many mansions/kingdoms. And those just probably slipped through the editing cracks.
Rob Osborn Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 And how come Jesus never talked about the different kingdoms? He obviously knew about them. Was it not important to know about them in the Bible? Of special interest is that Christ never speaks of anything other than a singular kingdom of heaven. in the scriptures. My belief- there is only one kingdom
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 6, 2013 Author Posted November 6, 2013 Of special interest is that Christ never speaks of anything other than a singular kingdom of heaven. in the scriptures. My belief- there is only one kingdomWell there's definitely only 1 kingdom that I want. Celestial.
BCSpace Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 Of special interest is that Christ never speaks of anything other than a singular kingdom of heaven. in the scriptures. My belief- there is only one kingdom He also speaks of varying rewards in the kingdom of heaven.
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