When Did Adam First Walk The Earth?

[thesometimesaint]

I was doing some research tonight and it seems the popular estimation of when man as we know him is around 45-50,000 years ago.  Blonde hair and blue eyes appeared around 12,000 years ago in Scandinavia. I wonder what other known mutations in humans have happened relatively recently. It seems as though European humans were much shorter in say 1600 where a woman was barely 5' and a man was around 5'6". Here in the West, I am roughly average height for a woman at 5'7", but when I was in Ohio and New York, I towered over most other women. I think this height difference was owing to nutrition and improved medical care.

 

Oddly, the available sources indicate that humans were never shorter than 5' for women and 5'6" for men, other than some in Africa that were barely 3'.

 

Apparently, the oldest known human civilization was in Northern Pakistan and was around 12,000 years ago.  I doubt that we will know when Adam and Eve lived, though there is much literature that indicates it was between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in Iraq.

 

Genetically man is about 1/4 of a million years old.

 

While not directly human Hobbits are about 3 ft tall

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis

 

Last I heard the Fertile Crescent gave rise to civilization as we know it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertile_Crescent

Edited October 13, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[EllenMaksoud]

Genetically man is about 1/4 of a million years old.

Yes man is, but what about woman?    And, most of what I have seen indicates that mankind in his present form became that way around 55,000 years ago. I do not know what criteria they are using.

[thesometimesaint]

Yes man is, but what about woman?    And, most of what I have seen indicates that mankind in his present form became that way around 55,000 years ago. I do not know what criteria they are using.

 

Women being the more advanced species certainly came along before men.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

 

Archaic Homo sapiens, the forerunner of anatomically modern humans, evolved between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago.^[10][11] Recent DNA evidence suggests that several haplotypes of Neanderthal origin are present among all non-African populations, and Neanderthals and other hominids, such as Denisova hominin may have contributed up to 6% of their genome to present-day humans, suggestive of a limited inter-breeding between these species.^[12][13][14] Anatomically modern humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens in the Middle Paleolithic, about 200,000 years ago.^[15] The transition to behavioral modernity with the development of symbolic culture, language, and specialized lithic technology happened around 50,000 years ago according to many anthropologists^[16] although some suggest a gradual change in behavior over a longer time span.^[17]

[EllenMaksoud]

Women being the more advanced species certainly came along before men.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

 

Archaic Homo sapiens, the forerunner of anatomically modern humans, evolved between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago.^[10][11] Recent DNA evidence suggests that several haplotypes of Neanderthal origin are present among all non-African populations, and Neanderthals and other hominids, such as Denisova hominin may have contributed up to 6% of their genome to present-day humans, suggestive of a limited inter-breeding between these species.^[12][13][14] Anatomically modern humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens in the Middle Paleolithic, about 200,000 years ago.^[15] The transition to behavioral modernity with the development of symbolic culture, language, and specialized lithic technology happened around 50,000 years ago according to many anthropologists^[16] although some suggest a gradual change in behavior over a longer time span.^[17]

Owing to the fact that I have had my own medical issues to deal with, my insatiable curiosity has led me to read a lot. In that reading I've come upon the "Three Brain Model", where there is the reptilian brain, the Paleomammialian complex and the Neomammalian complex. I heard one man say, and please do not CFR on this, that he felt that the Neomammalian complex was not really functional until 50,000 years ago.

 

I question the idea that Adam came from a ball of mud, and the reason that Genisis says what it does is that tribal Jews were describing what happened to the best of their ability. I think that probably the reason that we do not have records from the creation of Adam is that we had not material that would survive that long, and probably still do not.

[danieldemol]

and please do not CFR on this, that he felt that the Neomammalian complex was not really functional until 50,000 years ago.

CFR j/k.

I question the idea that Adam came from a ball of mud, and the reason that Genisis says what it does is that tribal Jews were describing what happened to the best of their ability. I think that probably the reason that we do not have records from the creation of Adam is that we had not material that would survive that long, and probably still do not.

I don't actually know with any certainty, but I wonder sometimes if the whole thing is not simply a metaphor for the Holy Spirit being breathed into the body of Adam, symbolized as water and dust. But you could well be right on it simply being how Jews understood the world at the time.

[EllenMaksoud]

I don't strongly challenge what seems like metaphorical Biblical stories, because truly none of us really know do we?  Can it not be that the point of any religion is to make us better people, more in line with the end goals of Heavenly Father? Some stories are indisputable; they have to be true. For example when Jesus healed the leper. He did something and the facts of the matter seem impossible to the natural man.

 

Other stories, like the Ark could possibly be Metaphorical? The virgin birth, again I think that something happened. Now that we know two eggs can make a fetus without sperm, it is much more believable that God simply did that perhaps.  My imaginative mind is sure that Ezekiel saw a flying machine full stop.

 

As to when Adam and Eve, they walked on the earth when God put them here, and the fact that we can not verify the time, does not change the truth of the event. My guess is between 6,000 and 50,000 years.

[danieldemol]

I agree that lack of verification does not mean an event did not happen, there will always be faith involved in religion and that is ok

[mfbukowski]

I agree that lack of verification does not mean an event did not happen, there will always be faith involved in religion and that is ok

But then what is the difference if it actually happened or not, since what is important is your belief that it did?

 

Since we can never know the "facts"- why hold their actual occurrence important?

 

Why can't we just affirm that it is the belief itself that gives us what we need, since that is what is really happening?  We believe "x" and so we have whatever it is that we get from religion without knowing if "x" ever happened, really.

 

The belief does in fact give us peace- I think we just need to acknowledge that and forget about the rest since "the truth" is unknowable anyway.

 

Clearly your prophet/revelator might have been an imposter just as ours might have been, yet believing that he was not an imposter, gives you whatever you get from your faith.  So it doesn't really matter if he was or not, since none of us can know.

[EllenMaksoud]

I agree that lack of verification does not mean an event did not happen, there will always be faith involved in religion and that is ok

Did you ever hear of the Enki from Lebanon?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkRAxC70-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkRAxC70-  I think this second link is crackpot science, but still funny.

[Calm]

 

The belief does in fact give us peace- I think we just need to acknowledge that and forget about the rest since "the truth" is unknowable anyway.

I assume you mean in such discussions as this or other ones that start comparing one belief/faith system to another?

 

I also assume that the "reality" of the Atonement and my own and others' interaction with God is what gives us peace beyond the powers of the placebo effect, that it is not just the belief that gives us peace, but God himself and I think it is important to teach the Atonement as having actually occurred in discussions about the Atonement and other faith principles (even if in discussions about that faith itself we may posit that "the truth" is unknowable)...

 

But I wouldn't know how to go about proving that in the least save to ask each person to try God in this way for him/herself.  

[danieldemol]

But then what is the difference if it actually happened or not, since what is important is your belief that it did?

Since we can never know the "facts"- why hold their actual occurrence important?

I think there are some facts we can know, such as death occurring prior to 5,000 years ago, some facts we can't know (in a scientifically verifiable sense), such as whether Adam was a real person or whether He really had no physical parents, and there are also some facts which we can know, but which may not be important.

I think I'm too liberal to be worried about whether Joseph Smith was true or not, but don't see any harm in examining claims made with respect to the natural world, or in examining these claims comparatively to the assertions in the Gospel or other texts.

[danieldemol]

Did you ever hear of the Enki from Lebanon?

I hadn't heard of them actually

[thesometimesaint]

Owing to the fact that I have had my own medical issues to deal with, my insatiable curiosity has led me to read a lot. In that reading I've come upon the "Three Brain Model", where there is the reptilian brain, the Paleomammialian complex and the Neomammalian complex. I heard one man say, and please do not CFR on this, that he felt that the Neomammalian complex was not really functional until 50,000 years ago.

 

I question the idea that Adam came from a ball of mud, and the reason that Genisis says what it does is that tribal Jews were describing what happened to the best of their ability. I think that probably the reason that we do not have records from the creation of Adam is that we had not material that would survive that long, and probably still do not.

 

Humans undoubtably have the largest brain in relation to organism size of any animal. Our cerebral cortex is also the most well developed of any species. More over we have prehensile hands that make it possible to manipulate our world like no other creature. Put together they have lead us from the ancient savanna's of Africa to the outer reaches of our solar system and beyond that with our telescopes.

[EllenMaksoud]

Humans undoubtably have the largest brain in relation to organism size of any animal. Our cerebral cortex is also the most well developed of any species. More over we have prehensile hands that make it possible to manipulate our world like no other creature. Put together they have lead us from the ancient savanna's of Africa to the outer reaches of our solar system and beyond that with our telescopes.

The unbridled aggression, greed and dishonesty is our downfall. Humans have not improved since Adam.

[thesometimesaint]

While cognizant of the numerous problems that bedevil our species. I tend to took at the good there is in the world, and our journey to Godhood.

[danieldemol]

I assume you mean in such discussions as this or other ones that start comparing one belief/faith system to another?

 

I also assume that the "reality" of the Atonement and my own and others' interaction with God is what gives us peace beyond the powers of the placebo effect, that it is not just the belief that gives us peace, but God himself and I think it is important to teach the Atonement as having actually occurred in discussions about the Atonement and other faith principles (even if in discussions about that faith itself we may posit that "the truth" is unknowable)...

 

But I wouldn't know how to go about proving that in the least save to ask each person to try God in this way for him/herself.  

Since it is still possible to believe that Jesus died for one's sins, even if one believes this guarantees eternal spiritual life, instead of eternal physical life, I would like to suggest that the atonement doctrine is altogether unaffected by whether or not physical death occured prior to 5,000 years ago, although I am glad you raised the matter

[Stone holm]

Mormon fundies without imagination believe about 6,000 years ago. My personal belief is that the garden was a relatively small portion of the Earth somehow not subject to the normal laws of nature and that the Earth is probably as old as science suggests. That Adam and Eve frolicked nude in the garden for a very long time before eating the fruit. That the fruit contained some kind of virus like substance that changed them and they then got booted out of the garden into an evolved lone and dreary world in which their descendants interbred with some of the evolved species, etc. so I believe that Adam and Eve were real historical beings, but I tend to have a vivid imagination when trying to make the teachings of BY consistent with scientific discoveries and tend to ignore people like Joseph Fielding Smith and his son in law.

[ERayR]

Humans undoubtably have the largest brain in relation to organism size of any animal. Our cerebral cortex is also the most well developed of any species. More over we have prehensile hands that make it possible to manipulate our world like no other creature. Put together they have lead us from the ancient savanna's of Africa to the outer reaches of our solar system and beyond that with our telescopes.

 

My studies lead me to believe that it has not been an ascent from "from the ancient savanna's of Africa to the outer reaches of our solar system" but rather a series of ascents and descents since man walked out of the Garden of Eden. 

[Damien the Leper]

Adam and Eve never existed therefore never walked the earth.

[thesometimesaint]

Adam and Eve never existed therefore never walked the earth.

 

Someone had to be the first. Whether it was on the savanna's of Africa or the midwest of America is a different question.

[jkwilliams]

My studies lead me to believe that it has not been an ascent from "from the ancient savanna's of Africa to the outer reaches of our solar system" but rather a series of ascents and descents since man walked out of the Garden of Eden. 

 

Other than assertions from Joseph Fielding Smith, I haven't seen any evidence of "ascents and descents" since Eden. Just out of curiosity, what have you been studying that leads you to that conclusion?

[thesometimesaint]

Other than assertions from Joseph Fielding Smith, I haven't seen any evidence of "ascents and descents" since Eden. Just out of curiosity, what have you been studying that leads you to that conclusion?

 

A&E were kicked out of Eden into the lone and dreary world.

[jkwilliams]

A&E were kicked out of Eden into the lone and dreary world.

 

Maybe it's the Dayquil speaking, but I'm not following you here.

[Damien the Leper]

Someone had to be the first. Whether it was on the savanna's of Africa or the midwest of America is a different question.

Whoever it was didn't make it into the storyline. Josiah and the Deuteronomist(s) did wonders for story revisionism and Jewish monotheism.

[thesometimesaint]

Maybe it's the Dayquil speaking, but I'm not following you here.

 

Hope you get feeling better soon. While I can't speak for ERayR. Whatever the changes A&E experienced upon leaving Eden. That could be seen as a type of evolution.