savedbygrace Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Has anyone read any of Ogden Kraut's writings. I have just found his books which can be read online, I haven't read any. Was he mainstream, maverick, free-thinker or reliable source of LDS doctine?
Vance Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 The LDS church and its web site are reliable sources of LDS doctrine.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Has anyone read any of Ogden Kraut's writings. I have just found his books which can be read online, I haven't read any. Was he mainstream, maverick, free-thinker or reliable source of LDS doctine?I know of a good man who lived in Ogden while me son lived there...read a book of his that saved my faith. Mike Ash or MAsh here...thank you Mike.
EllenMaksoud Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Has anyone read any of Ogden Kraut's writings. I have just found his books which can be read online, I haven't read any. Was he mainstream, maverick, free-thinker or reliable source of LDS doctine?http://www.mormonfundamentalism.com/ChartLinks/OgdenKraut.htm It may widen your understanding of the issues. He was apparently quite a maverick. I am from a culture where polygamy is there, but none of the women like it, so have no harsh feelings one way or the other. Just try to remember the authority of the President of the Church.
BCSpace Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 Was he mainstream, maverick, free-thinker or reliable source of LDS doctine? I'd say he is/was an apostate of the highest order: http://ogdenkraut.com/95Thesis%20No%20Tabs.htm
K-2 Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) He was a Mormon Fundamentalist. He joined the Church as a teenager in Montana in the early 1940's, but soon became associated with polygamists. He worked for John Koyle at the famous Dream Mine near Salem, Ut. and attended BYU for awhile. He was ordained a Seventy by the polygamist leader Joseph Musser before he went on a mission. He went to California and served his entire mission without purse or scrip under Bruce R. McConkie's father Oscar, who was the mission president. Later he married the secretary of Ernest Wilkinson, president of BYU, as a plural wife. In the late 60's he was a gospel doctrine teacher in his ward (whose members didn't know about his connections to polygamists) and started publishing handouts and booklets about subjects that they asked him about. The controversial nature of some of his writings led to him being investigated and excommunicated. After Rulon Allred refused to perform a sealing for him, he went to Louis Kelsch to do it, and became associated with the independent polygamists. He served in Europe in the Army after WW II and continued to work as a photographer on the Dugway Proving Ground base until retiring. He also owned a printing business in Salt Lake where he printed and sold his books. He died of cancer in 2002. His son Kevin still sells his books and has done some youtube videos with stories about him and his books, the Dream Mine, etc. His books contain many reliable and interesting things, but also sometimes contain his opinions and other unreliable ideas. He usually works in some mention of polygamy or other fundamentalist doctrines. Many of his books are available for free as text files online. One of his widows was interviewed by John Dehlin on a Mormon Stories podcast. She helps direct an organization that advocates for polygamy. It's called Principle Voices, if I remember right. Edited September 20, 2013 by K-2 3
SamIam Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 Has anyone read any of Ogden Kraut's writings. I have just found his books which can be read online, I haven't read any. Was he mainstream, maverick, free-thinker or reliable source of LDS doctine?I have read a majority of Ogden's writings. He is a brilliant man led astray. However, to not realize that he was earnest and sincere in trying to resolve some of the great conundrums that may affect those who seek deeper understandings is not to know the man at all. Interestingly, his message, Musser's message and Denver Snuffers message all have the common threads of disapproval of the Church hierarchy at their root. He is a preeminent researcher and if you are one who enjoys the obscure quotes that are hard to find he can be an excellent source. Just beware his conclusions and reasoning as he is by all standards fundamentalist. One of his plural wives, Anne Wilde is a very intelligent women, who I believe is still alive and used to work at a local bookstore in SLC. Also an author she is an organizing member and co-president of "Principle Voices" a group of women who speak positively of the polygamous experience. 1
Tacenda Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 I have read a majority of Ogden's writings. He is a brilliant man led astray. However, to not realize that he was earnest and sincere in trying to resolve some of the great conundrums that may affect those who seek deeper understandings is not to know the man at all. Interestingly, his message, Musser's message and Denver Snuffers message all have the common threads of disapproval of the Church hierarchy at their root. He is a preeminent researcher and if you are one who enjoys the obscure quotes that are hard to find he can be an excellent source. Just beware his conclusions and reasoning as he is by all standards fundamentalist. One of his plural wives, Anne Wilde is a very intelligent women, who I believe is still alive and used to work at a local bookstore in SLC. Also an author she is an organizing member and co-president of "Principle Voices" a group of women who speak positively of the polygamous experience.I wonder if he is related to Rebecca Musser who was featured on Dateline last week.
mfbukowski Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Has anyone read any of Ogden Kraut's writings. I have just found his books which can be read online, I haven't read any. Was he mainstream, maverick, free-thinker or reliable source of LDS doctine?Uh, I'd say that if he was excommunicated, that would be kind of an indication that he was not a reliable source for doctrine. Just remember that being an "ordained Seventy" in those days was a step below being a High Priest- that office was then regarded as appropriate for someone too old for Elder's Quorum and not old enough for the High Priest's group. Heck I am an "ordained Seventy"- just because I was around when ordinary members of the church were ordained to the office of a Seventy. In those days it had nothing to do with being a member of the First Quorum of Seventy, etc. All that changed in the mid 1980's as I recall without looking anything up. So it doesn't imply that he was a general authority or anything like that. Edited September 20, 2013 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 Maybe I will change my name to L.A. Pollock. 1
iamse7en Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 His books are fantastic. I've read many of them. My favorite is his compilation of Wilford Woodruff's Journal. His books are short, to the point with good documentation. Although you may not agree with all of his conclusions, anyone would be well-served by reading his books. Highly recommended.
cdowis Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 ==The Dream mine== I think that says it all.
cinepro Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 The LDS church and its web site are reliable sources of LDS doctrine. To be fair, they're also reliable sources of good advice, personal opinion, mistaken assumptions, outdated scholarship, and traditional interpretations of fallible opinions.
Billy the Law Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 To be fair, they're also reliable sources of good advice, personal opinion, mistaken assumptions, outdated scholarship, and traditional interpretations of fallible opinions. Point cinepro.
SamIam Posted September 20, 2013 Posted September 20, 2013 I wonder if he is related to Rebecca Musser who was featured on Dateline last week.Rebecca Musser is a granddaughter of Joseph Musser who was the leader of the Fundamental LDS up until 1954. Joseph Musser was very familiar with Ogden having set him apart as a seventy in the 1940's. Still after he was set apart as a fundamentalist Seventy Ogden still served a mission for the mainstream church.
JLHPROF Posted September 21, 2013 Posted September 21, 2013 Having read most of Ogden's works I am familiar with his POV. He is an independent fundamentalist mormon, with no authority on church doctrine. His books provide good basic information on fundamentalist doctrines, but don't go very deeply into them.
Bikeemikey Posted September 21, 2013 Posted September 21, 2013 I know of a good man who lived in Ogden while me son lived there... Are you also a pirate :-)
Ron Beron Posted September 21, 2013 Posted September 21, 2013 (edited) I think he published an interesting little book on seer stones a long while back. I believe I still have it.Better yet...it is available on line... http://ogdenkraut.com/Seers%20and%20Seer%20Stones%20Bold.htm Edited September 21, 2013 by Ron Beron
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