Integrity.

[EllenMaksoud]

Many here know that I was active Muslim until ... oh I don't know. So, I absolutely believe in the church in all aspects, and I am also Muslim. Most people say I must be one or the other. Yet, it was my belief in Muhammad PBUH and the Qur'an that made the step to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon very easy. For me, it was simply a continuation of the conversation with God. Another aspect of it all is that it is not the most healthy thing to reveal to certain, not numerous, nut case Muslims that you are X Muslim. They are told to kill you. I'm not very concerned here in the US.

 

I don't really have harsh things to say about the Islam that I practiced and simply stepping away from it and instantly becoming a bright and smiling Mormon woman has been problematic. Oh, the bright and smiling part was always there, and it used to get me chastized by some Muslims.

 

Now it seems that what some view as, "waffling" on the issues, is holding me back in the church. To say that I am now suddenly pure Mormon and Islam and my experiences are over has a huge impact on my feeling of integrity, and I do not know how to proceed

[TAO]

Mmm... could you explain... what makes you think your integrity is violated?  From what I've seen, you seem to be a great lady.

[Calm]

Many here know that I was active Muslim until ... oh I don't know. So, I absolutely believe in the church in all aspects, and I am also Muslim. Most people say I must be one or the other. Yet, it was my belief in Muhammad PBUH and the Qur'an that made the step to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon very easy. For me, it was simply a continuation of the conversation with God. Another aspect of it all is that it is not the most healthy thing to reveal to certain, not numerous, nut case Muslims that you are X Muslim. They are told to kill you. I'm not very concerned here in the US.

 

I don't really have harsh things to say about the Islam that I practiced and simply stepping away from it and instantly becoming a bright and smiling Mormon woman has been problematic. Oh, the bright and smiling part was always there, and it used to get me chastized by some Muslims.

 

Now it seems that what some view as, "waffling" on the issues, is holding me back in the church. To say that I am now suddenly pure Mormon and Islam and my experiences are over has a huge impact on my feeling of integrity, and I do not know how to proceed

People who haven't been through the conversion process don't always understand it is a process (and this is even for those who are BIC as they eventually need to be converted as well which generally means at least some of their assumptions and past habits are changed) plus culturally people often see Islam and the LDS faith as hugely different, they don't get there is a lot of overlap just as there is with other Christian faiths.

 

Be patient with this lack of understanding, perhaps look on it as an opportunity to educate others and just ignore any suggestions that you are not fully committed, etc.  You only need to be concerned with what the Spirit is telling you to commit to.  If some of these are your church leaders, then it is well worth your time in helping them understand as this may help them understand others who are converting as well no matter what faith they are converting from; if they are not your leaders, but taking it upon themselves to school you, be kind but firm in turning down their 'help' or just ignore them if they are the type that don't get a message easily (I know, easier to say than do, it can be quite tiring dealing with busybodies).

 

You shouldn't try to rush your own conversion.  This can lead to burn out or assumptions that you know all you need to know when you don't or when you encounter a cultural aspect, it may end up being a greater shock if you see yourself as having moved past the learning stage.  The reality is we are all still in the learning stage, that is what the world is here for.  God does not require us to run faster than we can manage, he is even happy with walking or crawling if that is what we are capable of if he has our hearts.

[Stargazer]

No convert comes to the LDS Church without bringing baggage from his or her previous faith tradition (even if he or she had no faith tradition, that is ironically, nevertheless a faith tradition).  Some discard the baggage completely in short order, but most retain some of the previous tradition in one form or another.

 

Some baggage must be discarded, if it contradicts the teaching and doctrine of the Church.  Some baggage may not need to be discarded.  But some baggage, even if it isn't strictly speaking necessary to let go, probably ought to be.

 

My stepbrother would never in his lifetimie join ANY church, let alone the LDS church.  It's not that he disbelieves in God, but that he dislikes churches.  Until his health seriously eroded he was a consummate smoker and alcohol consumer.  He was so enthusiastic about Jim Beam Bourbon Whisky in fact, that he named his pickup truck the "Jim Beam Special", and spent quite a bit of money having a big wooden sign with that name made in order to attach to the tailgate -- in effect giving Jim Beam free advertising.  Now, at age 71, and having been a teetotaller for over 10 years, he still keeps lots and lots of drinker paraphenalia in his house, and loves to talk about the virtues of various brands of beer and spirits.  He even still has a bar in his house -- which he and my father built to mimic a British Pub, by the way.  And he keeps alcohol there for his friends and relations who still drink.

 

If he were to join the LDS church he would not have to change his lifestyle much.  And he could keep his present home decor without having the slightest problem with his faithfulness in the Church.  And his pickup truck's Jim Beam placard. 

 

But the question is, should he keep his drinker paraphenalia?  There are some here who might argue that he should, but others who would disagree.  Make your own determination, but consider this, if he keeps the paraphenalia, he gives the appearance of being something that he is not.  If he appears to be something he is not, for one thing he is providing an example for others that they should perhaps not follow.  And his apparent loyalty to the Church might even become questionable.  If he got rid of all that, however, the question of his loyalty, his example, and who he is would never come up. 

 

Let me bring up another example.

 

Should a Catholic nun who joins the LDS Church still continue to wear a habit?  Should said nun still pray the rosary?  Should she continue to make the sign of the cross before commencing a prayer?  None of these things are forbidden in terms of one's membership in the LDS Church.  But should  she continue to do all of those things as if he had not left his previous Church and become a Latter-day Saint?  I suggest that perhaps she should.

 

Other things this nun should definitely keep, however, is her practice of holding divine matters in great reverence, and her practice of daily prayers and scripture reading -- adding of course latter-day scriptures such as the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

 

Well, that's my 2 cents.  By which I mean my opinion.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Stargazer

[EllenMaksoud]

I don't wear Hijab any more, though in my heart I still do it. For me, it is about modesty, and does not have religious significance. In 7 years of being Muslim, I assumed Muslim name Khadijah. Even today, it touches me in a special way to have Mormons call me by Khadijah. Others, being insenstive and American ignore my wishes and call me my "Legal" name. I absolutely do not care at all what church policy is on this.

 

On the other hand, often the path that Heavenly Father leads me on is so amazing!  I trust Heavenly Father. It is completely illogical that he would love me, but I know he does. Not one single person I know says anything to me but that I am "wonderful".  This is very confusing, not having encountered this before.

 

Just keep praying, I suppose.

[Stargazer]

I don't wear Hijab any more, though in my heart I still do it. For me, it is about modesty, and does not have religious significance. In 7 years of being Muslim, I assumed Muslim name Khadijah. Even today, it touches me in a special way to have Mormons call me by Khadijah. Others, being insenstive and American ignore my wishes and call me my "Legal" name. I absolutely do not care at all what church policy is on this.

 

On the other hand, often the path that Heavenly Father leads me on is so amazing!  I trust Heavenly Father. It is completely illogical that he would love me, but I know he does. Not one single person I know says anything to me but that I am "wonderful".  This is very confusing, not having encountered this before.

 

Just keep praying, I suppose.

 

Never fear.  Everyone should wear Hijab in their heart.

 

And there is no church policy on what name you may use, so you can use what ever name you want.

• A late friend of mine was named Elwynn Clark.  He grew up in a rough neighborhood, and his name caused him to get into a lot of fights.  He decided that he wanted to be called by a different name and thus avoid the fights.  He chose "Mike" because it sounded "tough".  The ploy worked, and even though his legal name was still Elwynn, when he joined the LDS Church he chose his "preferred name" in LDS records to be "Mike".  That's how everyone called him. 
• A member of my current ward is named D'Lane.  I don't know if he had any problem because of his name, but he chose to be called "DJ" -- "J" being his middle initial.  Virtually nobody knows he's D'Lane. 
• A man I knew in Springville, Utah used about five variations of his first and middle names before he finally settled on being called by his first name initial and middle name.  He was about 25 before he settled on what he wanted to be called.  And that was then how he was known.
• There's another member of my ward who goes by his middle name at Church and by his first name at his job.  He said it was by accident, but now finds it to be convenient when someone he doesn't know calls him on the phone -- depending upon what they call him, he knows whether it's Church or work-related.
• My wife had 7 children when I married her.  Three of them had not yet been baptized in the Church.  When it came time for them to be baptized I baptized them, and I used their legal first and middle names and MY last name, even though their legal last name was not mine.  They were known in our ward by MY surname, not their legal one.  Until they got old enough to choose otherwise, anyway.

There's no reason in the world why you may not be called "Khadijah" at church if you want.  You can even get it into the ward records so everyone sees it there.  Just go see your ward membership clerk and ask for your "Preferred Name" be changed to "Khadijah Maksoud" (if "Maksoud" is your true surname), or any name at all your heart desires.  I suppose that should be "within reason".  I think there might be some pushback if you wanted your Preferred Name to be "Joseph Smith."  :-)  

 

If you have rude people who will not respect your wishes as to what you want to be called, the solution is quite simple.  If they call for you using your legal name, ignore them.  If they speak to you to your face and call you "Ellen", do not give them a free pass, but say "I'm sorry, but I prefer Khadijah."  Always with a smile.  If they still will not accede to your wishes, then pick a name for them and start calling them by that name.  Make sure that they are aware that you will call them that name until they start referring to you as Khadijah.  If they finally get the point and do as you wish, then thank them.  Oh, and another thing, ask your friends at Church to make sure they always speak OF you as Khadija, especially if they are talking with the numbskulls who insist that you are "Ellen."

 

Well, Khadijah, you ARE wonderful!  Isn't it obvious?

[TAO]

Indeed Khadijah, you are a very wonderful person.  Although, I am curious, is the name simply a name like in English, or does it have another meaning?  I know my Jewish Friend has a Hebrew Name that has a meaning other than a name, and I was just wondering if that was the case here =D.

[Stargazer]

Indeed Khadijah, you are a very wonderful person.  Although, I am curious, is the name simply a name like in English, or does it have another meaning?  I know my Jewish Friend has a Hebrew Name that has a meaning other than a name, and I was just wondering if that was the case here =D.

 

I am surprised at you, young Jedi!  You don't know who Khadijah was?  Well, I shall let her answer for herself.

[Storm Rider]

By becoming LDS you did not stop being a Muslim; it is part of you. However you have become a new creature in Christ and are called to something greater. Some are called another way; into another path. If a LDS is anything, we are seekers of all truth regardless of where it is found. We should be the ultimate respecters of truth and its defenders.

I view Muhammad as a minor prophet; minor not relative to his impact on the world but because his message did not encompass the reality of the Son of our Father in Heaven.

[EllenMaksoud]

Mmm... could you explain... what makes you think your integrity is violated?  From what I've seen, you seem to be a great lady.

Maybe it is not integrity that is malfunctioning, but it is hard to not conform to the expectations of others; perhaps over thinking all this. The conduct of some Muslims in the world is humiliating to me, and having to apologise for them is wearing. In retrospect, were I 18 again, a chance that none of us have, perhaps the study of Anthropology, and Sociology would help understanding.  Not being a Mother Teresa, I do not see solution for all of mankinds hurts, except that they yeild to God, and then relief may not take hold until the next life.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Many here know that I was active Muslim until ... oh I don't know. So, I absolutely believe in the church in all aspects, and I am also Muslim. Most people say I must be one or the other. Yet, it was my belief in Muhammad PBUH and the Qur'an that made the step to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon very easy. For me, it was simply a continuation of the conversation with God. Another aspect of it all is that it is not the most healthy thing to reveal to certain, not numerous, nut case Muslims that you are X Muslim. They are told to kill you. I'm not very concerned here in the US.

 

I don't really have harsh things to say about the Islam that I practiced and simply stepping away from it and instantly becoming a bright and smiling Mormon woman has been problematic. Oh, the bright and smiling part was always there, and it used to get me chastized by some Muslims.

 

Now it seems that what some view as, "waffling" on the issues, is holding me back in the church. To say that I am now suddenly pure Mormon and Islam and my experiences are over has a huge impact on my feeling of integrity, and I do not know how to proceed

My experiences in life prior to becoming LDS helped craft me into someone who can teach from different perspectives. In my travels around the world the same. For the past 30 years I have lived no more than 20 miles from the two Baptist Churces I attended as a child. As a teacher, in Church and Professionally, (all I can do anymore since my back injury) I find that my experiences in both worlds of religious thinking allows me to move back and forth making connections with my classes while maintaining my "own" integrity as to my current beliefs. In Church, most investigators here are Baptist's. So my rich background of having a father who was a Baptist Minister (God rest his soul) and my beginnings in the Baptist pulpit means that I can teach the gospel in the language of Baptist theology. This allowed to be a very effective gospel essentials teacher and member. As President Hinkley said, bring all that is good with you and let us add to it.

[EllenMaksoud]

My experiences in life prior to becoming LDS helped craft me into someone who can teach from different perspectives. In my travels around the world the same. For the past 30 years I have lived no more than 20 miles from the two Baptist Churces I attended as a child. As a teacher, in Church and Professionally, (all I can do anymore since my back injury) I find that my experiences in both worlds of religious thinking allows me to move back and forth making connections with my classes while maintaining my "own" integrity as to my current beliefs. In Church, most investigators here are Baptist's. So my rich background of having a father who was a Baptist Minister (God rest his soul) and my beginnings in the Baptist pulpit means that I can teach the gospel in the language of Baptist theology. This allowed to be a very effective gospel essentials teacher and member. As President Hinkley said, bring all that is good with you and let us add to it.

My start in Christianity was in a community church where the pastor was Baptist trained, so I can understand your point of view.  Alhumduallah, (thank God), my ire at them has cooled over the years. You will perhaps remember two scriptures that I can not find. I think both of them are in either 1 or 2 Corinthians, in which Paul talks about one who has fallen into sin and how they are to be shunned. The Churches I went to were very good at the shunning. However, Paul also writes about restoring the sinner in Galatians 6:1, and in my opinion, the only church I have ever experienced that tries to do that is the LDS church full stop.

 

In Islam, there was just lots of time to reflect, lots of time in the prayer ritual asking Allah SWT (God) for forgiveness, asking for his blessing, praising him, and then the garb in public was a constant reminder of my obligation to God.  You can find the Muslim prayer ritual in Youtube, in English, and you will see that there is nothing mystical or evil about it. Bowing at the waist, or kneeling on hands and knees with forehead on floor quickly disabuses people of their arrogant ideas, believe me.

 

Sadly, some nut cases, tried to destroy Islam in the 9/11 attacks. For several years, the news media and the government promoted Muslim hate, and it ruined a lot of families who had lived here in the US for many years. Happily, it did not get as bad as it did for the Japanese Americans in the US, post Pearl Harbor, but it got bad. I know of one American Montessori school teacher who was married to a Saudi Engineer, who after 9/11 were forced to flee to Saudi Arabia. I know of another Lebanese family who had owned  a Dunkin Doughnut shop here in Portland, who after 9/11 were forced to shut down. It is all very sad.

 

If anyone would feel compassion for American Muslim families, it should be Mormons, who having experienced hate in the Mid West, fled to Utah. I've been ranting, haven't I. Sorry.

[Storm Rider]

There is a major difference between an observant Muslim and an individual with a strong political agenda that is also Muslim. She or he may use Islam as their shield, but their objectives are solely political. That is how I have come yo understand the situation living among Muslims in the UAE for the last several years.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

 

Sadly, some nut cases, tried to destroy Islam in the 9/11 attacks. For several years, the news media and the government promoted Muslim hate, and it ruined a lot of families who had lived here in the US for many years. .

I know it may have seemed that way, when I worked a Chief Electrical Inspector for the City of Atlanta, I had many Gov't projects that an employee and friend was afraid to go too because he was Muslim. I would joke with, Colin you are from a British citizen and no one is going to know, they don't ask for your faith at the door. So I would go along, he would ask what if they ask...I tell you are my friend. When the 14 St Mosque was build, I put him in charge of inspections. Ellen, people hate because it is our fallen nature, we don't take orders from the Gov't who to hate.

[EllenMaksoud]

I know it may have seemed that way, when I worked a Chief Electrical Inspector for the City of Atlanta, I had many Gov't projects that an employee and friend was afraid to go too because he was Muslim. I would joke with, Colin you are from a British citizen and no one is going to know, they don't ask for your faith at the door. So I would go along, he would ask what if they ask...I tell you are my friend. When the 14 St Mosque was build, I put him in charge of inspections. Ellen, people hate because it is our fallen nature, we don't take orders from the Gov't who to hate.

OH MY GOSH. I am Electrical Inspector in the state of Oregon!!! It is a small world is it not?   It has been 10 years since I worked, however.  I did "ride alongs" with other inspectors, and found the encounters with the contractors too intimidating to actually take an Inspector's position. I worked for over 30 years as an Electrician, and they loved my work, but it is still very much a Man's world there.

 

I am so thankful that Heavenly Father dragged me, kicking and screaming,  to the Mormons. It is a whole new, much more wholesome way of thinking for me. 

[rpn]

I haven't read anyone else's ideas.  But my suggestion is to quit listening to anyone but your heart/head, your God and your bishop about how you fit into the Church.   Mortals all have their own opinions (more often about others than themselves), and can rarely keep them to themselves.   As you learn more and seek to follow Jesus Christ, there may be traditions you have previously espoused that you no longer believe to be appropriate.  But it is unlikely that will happen for any tradition that moves you closer to God.  The Gospel incorporates all truth, wherever it is found.  The Gospel is not an enemy to goodness or even traditions that are unnecessary but helpful to you personally.   If you need to leave something behind, the spirit will plainly convey that to you  AND the spirit will never tell someone other than your bishop who has stewardship that you should fix something.

 

When people give you feedback, decide whether or not you need to even consider it at the moment.  (Ether talks about God telling us what faults we need to work on at any given time).  If you are supposed to consider it when you receive it, then do so.   But do it at your own time, your own pace, and in your own way.    Tell (or maybe just avoid) those who would instruct you) to butt out.    And do not worry one little tad what anyone else thinks you should do or be.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

OH MY GOSH. I am Electrical Inspector in the state of Oregon!!! It is a small world is it not?   It has been 10 years since I worked, however.  I did "ride alongs" with other inspectors, and found the encounters with the contractors too intimidating to actually take an Inspector's position. I worked for over 30 years as an Electrician, and they loved my work, but it is still very much a Man's world there.

 

I am so thankful that Heavenly Father dragged me, kicking and screaming,  to the Mormons. It is a whole new, much more wholesome way of thinking for me. 

Well, it may be that the Church I attend now and those of my youth are only 20 miles apart, but in real time, it has been a life long journey. That journey took me into the Army and 4,000 miles from home to find the Church in Germany. As far a my job I am retired but still travel the State teaching large groups of Inspectors and contractors...but it was in the Church that I learned to teach, which became a profession.

[EllenMaksoud]

Well, it may be that the Church I attend now and those of my youth are only 20 miles apart, but in real time, it has been a life long journey. That journey took me into the Army and 4,000 miles from home to find the Church in Germany. As far a my job I am retired but still travel the State teaching large groups of Inspectors and contractors...but it was in the Church that I learned to teach, which became a profession.

I won't teach other electricians unless they ask. Some men are too aggressive; discounting women, and I do not wish to think of it. Then there is of course the admonishment of Paul, very unpopular today, (1 Tim 2:12).  I give that a lot of thought if I am to teach in the church before men. After 10 years away from the trade, I doubt that I know enough to do it any more.

 

In the church, I view myself as a woman who is very fortunate to be in it, and never refuse callings, or requests for help, but there is not any confusion about my place; one that I am quite thankful to occupy.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I won't teach other electricians unless they ask. Some men are too aggressive; discounting women, and I do not wish to think of it. Then there is of course the admonishment of Paul, very unpopular today, (1 Tim 2:12). I give that a lot of thought if I am to teach in the church before men. After 10 years away from the trade, I doubt that I know enough to do it any more.

In the church, I view myself as a woman who is very fortunate to be in it, and never refuse callings, or requests for help, but there is not any confusion about my place; one that I am quite thankful to occupy.

Good point, but men can be ever harder on other men. I have worked so long in this industry in Georgia, that few have not taken orders or direction from me at one time or another. Mostly are former students of mine from 24 years nights teaching for Chattahoochee Technical College...and I am just mean. Like a snake, or nice whichever the moment requires. Edited August 26, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[EllenMaksoud]

Good point, but men can be ever harder on other men. I have worked so long in this industry in Georgia, that few have not taken orders or direction from me at one time or another. Most are former students of mine from 24 years nights teaching for Chattahoochee Technical College...and I am just mean.

I have seen tool belts dropped.  I mostly got questions about why I would want to be an Electrician. I didn't, but had babies to feed. The children are grown and gone, and I can finally grow nails.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I have seen tool belts dropped.  I mostly got questions about why I would want to be an Electrician. I didn't, but had babies to feed. The children are grown and gone, and I can finally grow nails.

I have found I can finally grow nails. But I don't want too.

[EllenMaksoud]

I have found I can finally grow nails. But I don't want too.

Um well, you're a boy.

[TAO]

I am surprised at you, young Jedi!  You don't know who Khadijah was?  Well, I shall let her answer for herself.

 

Lol.  I should have checked google first =p.

[EllenMaksoud]

Lol.  I should have checked google first =p.

Khadijah was first wife of the prophet Muhammad PBUH. Interesting story there. He was caravan guy (Truck Driver) and she was Merchant (Big Box Store) they fell in love an married. She had lots of money, so he got off the road, and started loafing around in caves and then Allah SWT spoke to him. Hence the beginning of Islam. The moral of the story is that behind every successful man is good woman. 

 

My close friends still use Khadijah. The ones who do not respect me use my American name. Just saying.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Um well, you're a boy.

An old man, is more like it, getting more gray with each day.