Anti-Mormon Lies In The Nauvoo Expositor

[USU78]

At the beginning, she didn't know. And then she did, and was opposed. And then conditionally accepted it. And then was opposed again. Emma's story is highly complicated, and heartbreaking. During most of these periods, marriages occurred that Emma was not aware of (if I recall correctly, during the period she accepted it, she participated in a marriage ceremony for plural wives Joseph had already been married to prior!).- I think a key evidential point is that Emma wasn't the fist woman sealed to Joseph.

 

I don't have my reference books (IE, The 3 volumes of Joseph Smith's Polygamy by Brian Hales - THE reference source to everything JS Polygamy related. Seriously. Absolutely everything known to exist on the subject is in here.) handy on this moment to give you the references, but I will provide them later if someone else doesn't in the meantime.

 

I don't have an argument with any of this . . . just with the absurd assertion that, by 1842-44 in Nauvoo, Emma didn't know, as implicitly claimed by cinepro, above.

[ZelphtheGreat]

One thing I find interesting is that none of the manuals or top LDS leadership can tell what the lies are or were.

 

The assertion is made over and over about the lies yet the manuals don't tell what they are nor do the brethren.

 

In reading the paper I have yet to discover any lies printed.

 

Joseph was evading the law the whole time he was in Nauvoo. He was hiding his extra wives and even denying he had any. He was teaching polygamy the whole time and even going after the young daughters and wives of his fellow saints.

 

I see the destruction of the press as a desperate attempt to keep the truth from getting out and Joseph a criminal for doing so.

 

Just as the killing of Joseph in a lopsided gunfight is not mentioned in the manuals and nearly all church talks, nor is the wine the men had the evening before... all the church tells is a sanitized and inaccurate story.

 

They do not trust their members enough to tell the truth. Instead they resort to lies in the telling - almost criminal trying to persuade people you have the truth when you resort to lies to do so.

[David T]

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Edited August 20, 2013 by David T

[EllenMaksoud]

I am in the process of reading the actual article that got the Nauvoo Expositor destroyed. It is actually a fascinating read:

http://www.solomonspalding.com/docs/exposit1.htm

So far, I haven't actually come up with anything that is either "anti-Mormon" or a lie.

Joseph Smith DID practice polygamy.

Joseph Smith DID coerse potential brides by ensuring themselves and their families salvation.

William Law WAS excommunicated in a secret session without his prior knowledge.

Is there anyone denying these facts?

I would like to know what the sepcific anti-Mormon lies were that were told in the Nauvoo Expositor. As far as I am aware, the authors of the Expositor were also LDS and strong believers in the gospel. What they took issue with was how Joseph Smith was conducting himself and how he was running the Church at that moment.

I think that Emma Smith was one of the contributors in the paper, or worked at the paper.

[Calm]

I think that Emma Smith was one of the contributors in the paper, or worked at the paper.

I think that Emma Smith was one of the contributors in the paper, or worked at the paper.

Where did you get that idea?

[EllenMaksoud]

Where did you get that idea?

I don't remember. It was either in the comments after the Emma Smith Movie, perhaps even on this forum. I watched the Emma Smith movie 3 or 4 months ago. I do not think the movie mentioned this about her.  To be clear, this is not an anti-mormon attack.

[why me]

One thing I find interesting is that none of the manuals or top LDS leadership can tell what the lies are or were.

 

The assertion is made over and over about the lies yet the manuals don't tell what they are nor do the brethren.

 

In reading the paper I have yet to discover any lies printed.

 

Joseph was evading the law the whole time he was in Nauvoo. He was hiding his extra wives and even denying he had any. He was teaching polygamy the whole time and even going after the young daughters and wives of his fellow saints.

 

I see the destruction of the press as a desperate attempt to keep the truth from getting out and Joseph a criminal for doing so.

The lies are in the description of joseph smith and in describing the leadership of the the lds church. Wouldn't you agree?

[Tacenda]

I don't remember. It was either in the comments after the Emma Smith Movie, perhaps even on this forum. I watched the Emma Smith movie 3 or 4 months ago. I do not think the movie mentioned this about her. To be clear, this is not an anti-mormon attack.

Didn't Emma put together the first hymnbook in the church? Maybe that's what you're thinking of.

[EllenMaksoud]

Didn't Emma put together the first hymnbook in the church? Maybe that's what you're thinking of.

I don't know.

[why me]

I see the destruction of the press as a desperate attempt to keep the truth from getting out and Joseph a criminal for doing so.

 

I seem to remember that mormon presses were destroyed in missiouri. No one was brought to book for that. Why? Also, mormon homes and property were destroyed in missouri. I don't remember anything happening to any of the mob members. Why? I see the law as being lopsided. Don't you?

Edited August 22, 2013 by why me

[why me]

Just as the killing of Joseph in a lopsided gunfight is not mentioned in the manuals and nearly all church talks, nor is the wine the men had the evening before... all the church tells is a sanitized and inaccurate story.

This is interesting. However, in my sunday school class when what happened at the jail was being taught, the two sister missionaries who were the teachers, telling of the event read from something during the class which mentioned the gun fight and what happened. It came from a church source but what, I have no idea. I was just surprised that the lesson had something to do with the gunfight. It seems that all knew of the gunfight since no one cringed or seemed doubt stricken. But what they read from I have no idea.

 

But I do wish that it was more openly known. I see nothing wrong with the gunfight and a person protecting herself or himself. I think that it was a brave thing for joseph to do, to pick up the gun in the face of a 100 men and fire six shots into the crowd as his brother lay dead on the floor.

Edited August 22, 2013 by why me

[Storm Rider]

One thing I find interesting is that none of the manuals or top LDS leadership can tell what the lies are or were.

 

The assertion is made over and over about the lies yet the manuals don't tell what they are nor do the brethren.

 

In reading the paper I have yet to discover any lies printed.

 

Joseph was evading the law the whole time he was in Nauvoo. He was hiding his extra wives and even denying he had any. He was teaching polygamy the whole time and even going after the young daughters and wives of his fellow saints.

 

I see the destruction of the press as a desperate attempt to keep the truth from getting out and Joseph a criminal for doing so.

 

Just as the killing of Joseph in a lopsided gunfight is not mentioned in the manuals and nearly all church talks, nor is the wine the men had the evening before... all the church tells is a sanitized and inaccurate story.

 

They do not trust their members enough to tell the truth. Instead they resort to lies in the telling - almost criminal trying to persuade people you have the truth when you resort to lies to do so.

What is so comical to be is your accusation of others being no one can reveal the lies and being one sided. You don't really get how incredibly subjective you are. You only see in black and white.

[LordUther]

 

Just as the killing of Joseph in a lopsided gunfight is not mentioned in the manuals and nearly all church talks, nor is the wine the men had the evening before... all the church tells is a sanitized and inaccurate story.

 

 

 

 

You mean the same way that the enemies of the Church fail to mention the years of being hunted like dogs, how our people were burnt out of their homes & driven from state to state which lead to the secrecy. How the reason Joseph was on the run in Nauvoo was because the Saints in Missouri had finally decided to defend themselves with Joseph's backing, which lead to original treason charge. How the state of Missouri actually made it legal to kill a Mormon for being a Mormon. And what really makes me laugh is how you people aren't offended that a mob of 150-200 people stormed Carthage jail and killed a man in cold blood, but you are offended that he tried to defend himself against said mob...WITH A SIX SHOOTER PISTOL!!!

[USU78]

I seem to remember that mormon presses were destroyed in missiouri. No one was brought to book for that. Why? Also, mormon homes and property were destroyed in missouri. I don't remember anything happening to any of the mob members. Why? I see the law as being lopsided. Don't you?

 

"Your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you."  --  "Matty" Van Buren

 

Redress for the destruction of personal property got swept up in the Petitions for Redress, which tended to focus on real property, as they indeed should have.

Edited August 22, 2013 by USU78

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I am in the process of reading the actual article that got the Nauvoo Expositor destroyed. It is actually a fascinating read:http://www.solomonspalding.com/docs/exposit1.htmSo far, I haven't actually come up with anything that is either "anti-Mormon" or a lie.Joseph Smith DID practice polygamy.Joseph Smith DID coerse potential brides by ensuring themselves and their families salvation.William Law WAS excommunicated in a secret session without his prior knowledge.Is there anyone denying these facts?I would like to know what the sepcific anti-Mormon lies were that were told in the Nauvoo Expositor. As far as I am aware, the authors of the Expositor were also LDS and strong believers in the gospel. What they took issue with was how Joseph Smith was conducting himself and how he was running the Church at that moment.

This is a clever way to hit of favorite anti-Mormon issues, well done. The capitalization of "DID" in every question even more clever.

Yea, Joseph practiced polygamy

From accounts he would ask someone and let them do what they wanted...testimonials from some, also Joseph out of 34 women never got one pregnant other than Emma...what are the odds? So it is clear these were not all real marriages, in fact very few.

William Law led a mob to murder Joseph, knowing what a wicked man he was, I would have met in South America.

But again, well played.

[Tacenda]

This is a clever way to hit of favorite anti-Mormon issues, well done. The capitalization of "DID" in every question even more clever.

Yea, Joseph practiced polygamy

From accounts he would ask someone and let them do what they wanted...testimonials from some, also Joseph out of 34 women never got one pregnant other than Emma...what are the odds? So it is clear these were not all real marriages, in fact very few.

William Law led a mob to murder Joseph, knowing what a wicked man he was, I would have met in South America.

But again, well played.

There is a big possiblity that he did father a child and her name is Josephine. And it just so happens that my nephews by marriage are related to her! I believe it is through his marriage to Sylvia Sessions.

[why me]

There is a big possiblity that he did father a child and her name is Josephine. And it just so happens that my nephews by marriage are related to her! I believe it is through his marriage to Sylvia Sessions.

I don't think that this has been proven. We can not go on possibilities.

[why me]

"Your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you."  --  "Matty" Van Buren

 

Redress for the destruction of personal property got swept up in the Petitions for Redress, which tended to focus on real property, as they indeed should have.

You lost me.

[Storm Rider]

There is a big possiblity that he did father a child and her name is Josephine. And it just so happens that my nephews by marriage are related to her! I believe it is through his marriage to Sylvia Sessions.

 

Yet all those who have professed such have failed the DNA test. It would not be a bad thing to have had children from other wives, but so far nothing has been supported by a DNA test.

[Tacenda]

Yet all those who have professed such have failed the DNA test. It would not be a bad thing to have had children from other wives, but so far nothing has been supported by a DNA test.

Well when the mother tells the daughter who her father is, she ought to know. And Brian Hales seems to think so. I'd provide a reference, if I wasn't on my phone. Also my nephew's cousin is a genealogist and she confirmed it with me.

[Jaynee Doe]

Yet all those who have professed such have failed the DNA test. It would not be a bad thing to have had children from other wives, but so far nothing has been supported by a DNA test.

 

Josephine Rosetta Lyon, the woman Tacenda mentioned, has not been ruled out by DNA. 

[Tacenda]

Josephine Rosetta Lyon, the woman Tacenda mentioned, has not been ruled out by DNA. 

 

Thanks Jaynee!

 

These are the genealogists words....

 

Joseph SMITH "Prophet of LDS Church" (1805 - 1844) is the husband of Bob's 2nd great grand aunt. His 2nd great grand aunt is Sylvia Porter Sessions. He is related by "blood" to Josephine who is his first cousin three times removed. Carol, Ann, Rosie and those cousins are first cousins four times removed to Josephine.

 

And.... I left this out: Joseph Smith is the 2nd Great Grand Uncle of Bob Sessions......

[USU78]

You lost me.

 

You had asked about the issue of redress for the destruction of the LDS printing press in Missouri by mobs.

 

I was pointing out that the petitions for redress for the state-sponsored and/or state-winked-at seizures of LDS-owned realty were ignored by the state, and that JSJr's personal appeal to the then-sitting POTUS was rebuffed, albeit courteously.

[why me]

You had asked about the issue of redress for the destruction of the LDS printing press in Missouri by mobs.

 

I was pointing out that the petitions for redress for the state-sponsored and/or state-winked-at seizures of LDS-owned realty were ignored by the state, and that JSJr's personal appeal to the then-sitting POTUS was rebuffed, albeit courteously.

That is what I thought you meant. What the critics fail to acknowledge is the destruction of the mormon presses in missouri as an example of what happened in nauvoo. I am sure that the destruction of mormon property was on the mind of the town council when they decided the fate of the expositor.

[why me]

Thanks Jaynee!

 

 

Nothing has been proven. We all knew that. We can't go on possibilities.