Spirit Of The Lord = Holy Ghost?

[Ahab]

Perhaps true in a strict sense but there is only one church the Godhead recognizes as the "one true church". That's the church the Spirit of the Lord testifies to be true.

If by "one true church" you're referring to the Church which is his, then yes, he truly has only one and we (LDS) are in it. He isn't in it, though, at least not as a member of it. All of the people who are the members of his Church are other people, not him. And not our Father or the Holy Ghost, either. They are not members of the Church, even though the Church (the members of it) are theirs.

[bluebell]

That would be a strange omission since Nephi was revealed a person and asked by the Spirit of the Lord who that person was and Nephi replied in verse 13 of 1 Nephi 11, "And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white." Strange if Nephi would point out seeing a female human but not a female spirit.

True.

[bluebell]

While not proven "definitely" (altering it from "indefinitely"), I do not think at all that the spirit Nephi conversed with was Heavenly Mother, nor do I see the "Spirit of the Lord" at all as Heavenly Mother.

Personally, I don't either.

[bluebell]

This is what started it. She says she is still thinking about it.

It is interesting and I admit that that has given me things to ponder on as well. I can't square it though with the fact that if such were true, then Adam would not have had access to the Holy Ghost.

[David T]

It is interesting and I admit that that has given me things to ponder on as well. I can't square it though with the fact that if such were true, then Adam would not have had access to the Holy Ghost.

One could suggest the perspective that the rest of the story introducing this Trinity does show Adam interacting with those then serving as Holy Ghosts (the presiding one who apparently replaced Michael as the next-in-line-reporting-to-Jehovah) , one of which even specifically "teacheth a man to pray".

Edited August 13, 2013 by David T

[Ahab]

It is interesting and I admit that that has given me things to ponder on as well. I can't square it though with the fact that if such were true, then Adam would not have had access to the Holy Ghost.

Well, he would have had access, because he would have been him, but he would not have been able to just "visit" himself. Each of us is stuck with the person we are and there is no way to get away from ourself, or from who made us what we are.

So, in some sense, each one of us is our Heavenly Mother, and our Heavenly Father, to the extent that we are like them and have their essence within us.

[Darren10]

D&C 130:22

The ^aFather has a ^bbody of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of ^cSpirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not ^ddwell in us.

That applies to post-mortal resurrected Jesus which Joseph Smith saw first hand and preached about. The Brother of Jared saw the pre-mortal Jesus:

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

17 And now, as I, Moroni, said I could not make a full account of these things which are written, therefore it sufficeth me to say that Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit, even after the manner and in the likeness of the same body even as he showed himself unto the Nephites.

(Ether 3)

[Tacenda]

It is interesting and I admit that that has given me things to ponder on as well. I can't square it though with the fact that if such were true, then Adam would not have had access to the Holy Ghost.

Wait isn't Adam a God, our God according to Brigham Young? That would mean Adam=Holy Ghost and Adam=God... some still believe this probably! But yeah, the gal you mention probably got it from the idea that Adam helped create the world.

[Darren10]

I've always thought it is interesting how we can have more than one spirit in our body, like our spirit and the Holy Spirit.

That would mean that if the spirit of a woman were to enter into my body, with my spirit already in it, I would have both my male spirit and the female spirit within my body with me. Something like a woman having the spirit of a man with her in her body if the Holy Spirit is a male spirit, I suppose.

Perhaps in regard to demonic possessions but I do not view God operating in *actually* dwelling in our bodies. I think His power and presence is via His Holy Spirit but the actually corporeal spirit is not in our bodies.

[David T]

Wait isn't Adam a God, our God according to Brigham Young? That would mean Adam=Holy Ghost and Adam=God... some still believe this probably! But yeah, the gal you mention probably got it from the idea that Adam helped create the world.

BY took it in a totally different direction. He didn't equate M with the HG. He equated, for a time, M with Heavenly Father, with J being Grandfather, and E being Great Grandfather. But that's another discussion *grin*

[Darren10]

Wait isn't Adam a God, our God according to Brigham Young?

NO, he is NOT our God. Brigham Young's thought were erroneous and I believe even he disregarded the Adam-God theory after "toying" with it a while.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

So one day the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost may be "released"? I can imagine the talk after the bishop gets up in sacrament meeting and announces that next week the Godhead will be reorganized. Attendance would be tripled at least for that meeting.

Once a bishop always a bishop.

[Ahab]

Wait isn't Adam a God, our God according to Brigham Young? That would mean Adam=Holy Ghost and Adam=God... some still believe this probably! But yeah, the gal you mention probably got it from the idea that Adam helped create the world.

If by "a God" you're talking about a person who is the same kind of being as our Father in heaven, then yes, he is one of us, and so are all of the rest of us. We are all God, in that sense. Now the question is whether or not Adam is or ever was the same person we refer to as the Holy Ghost. It would be nice to know which name(s) the Holy Ghost has, or has ever gone by, other than just some vague reference to his spirit and the fact that his spirit is holy, don't you think?

[David T]

. Many descriptors, and many faces. Always trying to help out humanity, and sees the best in us, and strives to leave his Companions better people than when he found them...

Edited August 13, 2013 by David T

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

NO, he is NOT our God. Brigham Young's thought were erroneous and I believe even he disregarded the Adam-God theory after "toying" with it a while.

It is possible he taught this "doctrine" for 2 possible reasons. One is to see if memebers would actaully take the time to go to God and ask if it is true and seek a testimony. And the other is to try and pick a fight (for lack of a better term) with certain other members of the quorum of the 12. I know he and some others didn't always see eye to eye on things.

[David T]

It is possible he taught this "doctrine" for 2 possible reasons. One is to see if memebers would actaully take the time to go to God and ask if it is true and seek a testimony. And the other is to try and pick a fight (for lack of a better term) with certain other members of the quorum of the 12. I know he and some others didn't always see eye to eye on things.

The third reason is that it was, to him, a logical extrapolation of concepts Joseph taught, and attempts to make disparate parts it cohesive by the Pratts, plus his own way of thinking. There exists a logical strain of thought that can be followed would lead him to those conclusions. (Resurrected Personages Don't Have Blood, taught by Joseph. Orson Pratt reasoned Adam's created body didn't have blood prior to the fall. Brigham Young used something like the associative principle to say Adam must then be Resurrected Personage, etc, etc.)

Again, this would be better hashed out in a different thread.

Edited August 13, 2013 by David T

[Ahab]

. Many descriptors, and many faces. Always trying to help out humanity, and sees the best in us, and strives to leave his Companions better people than when he found them...

A person worth emulating. We should all want to have a holy spirit within us.

[Darren10]

It is possible he taught this "doctrine" for 2 possible reasons. One is to see if memebers would actaully take the time to go to God and ask if it is true and seek a testimony. And the other is to try and pick a fight (for lack of a better term) with certain other members of the quorum of the 12. I know he and some others didn't always see eye to eye on things.

Both those reasons sound strange. But I'm no expert on the subject.

[Arelius]

There are General Authorities who believe Nephi’s guide to be the premortal Christ. Others believe him to be the Holy Ghost.

Among those who believe that this is the premortal Christ include:

• Delbert L. Stapley
  
• Alvin R. Dyer
  
• Blaine M. Yorgason
  
• Bruce R. McConkie
  

Among those who believe that this is the Holy Ghost include:

• James E. Talmage
  
• Charles W. Penrose
  
• Orson F. Whitney
  
• George Reynolds and Janne M. Sjodahl
  
• H. Dean Garrett
  
• Hyrum L. Andrus
  
• O. Preston Robinson
  
• George Q. Cannon
  
• Legrand Richards
  
• B.H. Roberts
  
• Sidney B. Sperry
  
• Orson Pratt
  

If this is the Holy Ghost then it is the only instance in scripture where the Holy Ghost appears to man and converses with him.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

The third reason is that it was, to him, a logical extrapolation of concepts Joseph taught, and attempts to make disparate parts it cohesive by the Pratts, plus his own way of thinking. There exists a logical strain of thought that can be followed would lead him to those conclusions. (Resurrected Personages Don't Have Blood, taught by Joseph. Orson Pratt reasoned Adam's created body didn't have blood prior to the fall. Brigham Young used something like the associative principle to say Adam must then be Resurrected Personage, etc, etc.)

Again, this would be better hashed out in a different thread.

I wasn't saying that there were only 2 reasons. Certainly this could be the case and he was just trying to figure it all out out loud at a GC. And then there is the issue that BY never reviewed the notes. So there is a big possibilty that things were written down wrong or parts are missing/added.

[bluebell]

There are General Authorities who believe Nephi’s guide to be the premortal Christ. Others believe him to be the Holy Ghost.

Among those who believe that this is the premortal Christ include:

• Delbert L. Stapley
  
• Alvin R. Dyer
  
• Blaine M. Yorgason
  
• Bruce R. McConkie
  

Among those who believe that this is the Holy Ghost include:

• James E. Talmage
  
• Charles W. Penrose
  
• Orson F. Whitney
  
• George Reynolds and Janne M. Sjodahl
  
• H. Dean Garrett
  
• Hyrum L. Andrus
  
• O. Preston Robinson
  
• George Q. Cannon
  
• Legrand Richards
  
• B.H. Roberts
  
• Sidney B. Sperry
  
• Orson Pratt
  

If this is the Holy Ghost then it is the only instance in scripture where the Holy Ghost appears to man and converses with him.

If this is the premortal Christ, then it's weird that He says-

"7 And behold this thing shall be given unto thee for a sign, that after thou hast beheld the tree which bore the fruit which thy father tasted, thou shalt also behold a man descending out of heaven, and him shall ye witness; and after ye have witnessed him ye shall bear record that it is the Son of God.

Not saying He couldn't talk about Himself in the third person like that, but just that it seems unusual, especially considering that with the brother of Jared, the Savior spoke plainly about Himself.

[Ahab]

If this is the premortal Christ, then it's weird that He says-

"7 And behold this thing shall be given unto thee for a sign, that after thou hast beheld the tree which bore the fruit which thy father tasted, thou shalt also behold a man descending out of heaven, and him shall ye witness; and after ye have witnessed him ye shall bear record that it is the Son of God.

Not saying He couldn't talk about Himself in the third person like that, but just that it seems unusual, especially considering that with the brother of Jared, the Savior spoke plainly about Himself.

It would have still sounded weird or unusual if it was him and he had referred to himself in the first person:

... thou shalt also behold [me as] a man descending out of heaven, and I shall ye witness; and after ye have witnessed me ye shall bear record that it is I, the Son of God.

I think he was just telling him what he wanted him to say about him, whether or not it sounded weird or unusual.

[Garden Girl]

It is possible he taught this "doctrine" for 2 possible reasons. One is to see if memebers would actaully take the time to go to God and ask if it is true and seek a testimony. And the other is to try and pick a fight (for lack of a better term) with certain other members of the quorum of the 12. I know he and some others didn't always see eye to eye on things.

Hello Mola...

I don't think either of those reasons are what Brigham had in mind... I believe that he actually considered the Adam-God theory and that is why he taught it... but as we know, it was subsequently disavowed by numerous leaders, and we no longer even address it unless someone brings it up, as was the case on this board not long ago... and every now and then by a critic as if it something new or unknown.

IMO he probably had some impressions that he didn't understand and/or misinterpreted... At any rate, the theory was discarded by subsequent leaders...

GG

[Samlam]

That the verse above is about the Holy Ghost isn't really that interesting in and of itself, but the implication for this interpretation seems to be that there is no way that the Holy Ghost could be Heavenly Mother, though I often hear on this board that such could be a real possibility, and that seemed very interesting to me.

So, does this verse in 1 Nephi prove indefinitely (at least for those who believe the BOM to be scripture) that such cannot be the case?

Based on these two quotes of Joseph Smith’s, the Holy Ghost is not our mother in Heaven, nor can it be Adam as suggested by another later on in the thread.

But the holy ghost is yet a Spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body. as the Savior did or as god did or the gods before them took bodies for the Savior Says the work that my father did do i also & those are the works he took himself a body & then laid down his life that he might take it up again… Sermon delivered at Nauvoo temple grounds on Sunday June 16, 1844 Sources: Thomas Bullock report, McIntire Minute Book and the George Laub journal (Words of Joseph Smith for that day.)

Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. 4 Sermon delivered at Nauvoo temple grounds on Sunday August 27, 1843 (Sources: Joseph Smith diary (Willard Richards), Franklin D. Richards "Scriptural Items," William Clayton diary, James Burgess notebook and the Levi Richards diary. Words of Joseph Smith for date above)

[Robert F. Smith]

So one day the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost may be "released"? I can imagine the talk after the bishop gets up in sacrament meeting and announces that next week the Godhead will be reorganized. Attendance would be tripled at least for that meeting.

You are closer to the truth than might be comfortable, and we should stay away from the mysteries. However, please note that the "names" of the members of the Godhead (Gottheit) are all titles, same as "bishop" is a title. You might want to think of the process in terms Hugh NIbley recommended, while lecturing on Gnosticism: "Apocryphal Writings," p. 13 (FARMS Preliminary Report N-APO):

All the worlds are organized in a common pattern, . . in all the worlds you will find God alone rules but with a presidency of three and a council of twelve. This is the rule of all worlds. The repetitions are infinite in number and scope . . . . As a Yeu becomes a Father, the Father then appoints new Yeus (Jehovahs) for new worlds who in turn become Fathers, etc. (cf.

First Jeu

48:8; 50:1-3; 97:25-28;

Pistis Sophia

I, 91, 94; III, 285, 319, 329-330; IV, 355:15,23, 370:10,19,24). See C. Schmidt & V. MacDermot,

Books of Jeu

(Leiden: Brill, 1978).