bu11fr0g Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 What does true mean with regards to religion? Does it matter and why?Is there only one truth?
Storm Rider Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 There are eternal truths; those things that are absolute. There is not a single truth.
bluebell Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Perhaps it means 'things as they really are'. In that context, religion is teaching about literal things. Not concepts that are subjective or dependent upon interpretation.
Freedom Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 There are absolute truths (God has a body of flesh and bones) and relative truths (how individuals feel the spirit) and unknown truths (the mechanics of how the atonement redeems us). Some beliefs that some assume are truths but may simply be a current interpretation that will change when more information is revealed (why blacks did not receive the priesthood)Do you have an example of a truth that could be questioned?
Buzzard Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 My philosopher-and agnostic-brother talks about truth and Truth. Says all religious truth is with a small "t". When I point out that the Book of Mormon is either big "T" or fraud, he launches into a long discourse. I'll stick with my simplistic, capital "T" Truths, if that's OK with you.
Rob Osborn Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Truth deals with facts. There are other terms more applicable such as "faith" and "theory", or "theology". In religion we have things such as known facts and other things which we have faith in which we hope to be true. Other areas include personal theolofical or pgilisophical views. What thus is the definition of a true church? That can take on many different philisophical views. The LDS church claims its truthfulness in having the correct priesthood authority- no more and no less. Many churches, including ours can have both true doctrine and false doctrine. We must recognize this fact that even a church having true authority doesnt mean it teaches all true doctrines. For the most part, religion is what man makes along with its problems that need correction and guidance from God. I personally believe there are other true churches in the sense that they are building up the kingdom of God regardless of them having all the correct authority to officiate in ordinances.
cinepro Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 the Book of Mormon is either big "T" or fraudYou have to explain what that means though. For example, if it turns out that some of the statistics for the battles are misreported as far as army size and casualties, does that mean that that part isn't true, but the rest is? Or does that one misreporting make it a "fraud"?
Rob Osborn Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 You have to explain what that means though. For example, if it turns out that some of the statistics for the battles are misreported as far as army size and casualties, does that mean that that part isn't true, but the rest is? Or does that one misreporting make it a "fraud"?Chances are that the exactness of certain details as you suggested arent exactly true but that doesnt mean you can count the entire account asbeing untrue or a fraud. WW2 was a horrific war. Did we exactly account for all war related deaths? Has God ever tried to correct the number? Probably not. Inaccuracies does not falsify facts WW2 was a factual war regardless of war misreporting
Buzzard Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 You have to explain what that means though.For example, if it turns out that some of the statistics for the battles are misreported as far as army size and casualties, does that mean that that part isn't true, but the rest is? Or does that one misreporting make it a "fraud"?I think we all realize that the truthfulness of the BOM relates to it's coming forth as related by Joseph, and not how many Lamanite bodies were tossed into the River Sidon.
altersteve Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 There are eternal truths; those things that are absolute. There is not a single truth.I think there is: love. Every true thing comes in some way back to that. 3
pmccombs1 Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 What does true mean with regards to religion? Does it matter and why?Is there only one truth?As for the truth, I suspect you'll know it when you see it.Chesterton put it wonderfully:"A little boy was sitting on my knee the other day while I was reading a new book of philosophy. He could just read the capital letters, and he read across the top of a chapter 'What is truth?' And the moment he saw this grey and ironical riddle of old Pontius Pilate, he called out in a sudden shrill and exultant voice, 'Oh, that is an easy question. I know what truth is. It’s saying things right.' And so indeed it is; that is the best answer to the question, except the colossal silence of Christ. But the point here is, that the whole strength of the child lay not in the fact that he solved the difficulty, but that he did not admit that there was any difficulty."If there is any difficulty in telling the truth, it is knowing when to insist upon it.
pmccombs1 Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Truth deals with facts.Oh, I would say truth and fact are often worlds apart.
Rob Osborn Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Facts are always true. Truth is built on the facts that make up its foundation.
pmccombs1 Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) Facts are always true. Truth is built on the facts that make up its foundation.No, facts are always facts. This is a subtle distinction, but truth has to do with representations and conformity; truth is a feature of language and of symbols. The fact is the thing and truth its revelation. But what is the thing, really? In what universe or reality does it reside? Are the symbols capable of capturing its complete abstraction and presenting it to the human mind? What are the limits of the language? Is truth complete? How does one assess conformity of language to fact? How can we know? What is reliable? Do we inhabit an order of ignorance? On these questions, lines are drawn and battles fought.These are the questions that trouble philosophers, theologians, and anyone who seeks to assert authority; for authority demands an answer to them in order to be justified. No man can intrude upon the conscience of another without justification or consent, and as justification in most "truth" is very difficult to come by, mostly we operate by consent.Because to the naked self and to the authority of the soul, none of those hard questions matter one bit. Truth is merely saying what's right.I can talk about fiction in a factual way and say true things about imaginary worlds and fairy tales. J.R.R. Tolkien used to talk about "true myths," and we find these all over the place in our religious texts--in parables and allegories, and in much of what is claimed to represent factual history as well. I contend that many such stories are true whether they really happened or not.There are other things, besides facts, that are also true. For instance, when a thing conforms to one's aesthetic sense, to claim that it is beautiful is "saying things right." It is truth. Edited August 13, 2013 by pmccombs1
mfbukowski Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Oh gosh, should I get into this one and post all the usual videos or not?Sigh."There are no facts, only interpretations".If we say that there is some kind of "truth" beyond what we can directly experience and know as humans, then we have to throw our religious experience as being "true" because it can be said to be "all in your head".Truth is what your head makes it out to be- it is what is useful and works for you in your life. Is it true that you love your wife? Is that a "fact"? Can it be proven scientifically to others? No.But is it "true"? Yes.So truth must be something other than what is provable to others. It is what works for you. That is how we use the word "true". We all know how to use the word.The problems arise when we try to think of it as etched in stone in a pediment of a Greek temple saying " TRUTH".It's just a word like any other- like say "green". "Is it green?" Well in some light it might be more blue, or kind of an aqua or blending into a teal, BUT IS IT GREEN? YES OR NO- IT CAN'T BE ONE OR THE OTHER!Of course it can. It's just a word. don't get too hung up on words- get hung up on what works in your life.Let's try that statement out and see how it works. 1
mfbukowski Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 There are other things, besides facts, that are also true. For instance, when a thing conforms to one's aesthetic sense, to claim that it is beautiful is "saying things right." It is truth.What kinds of things did you have in mind? I understand what you mean, I think, but this just confuses the issue. Only sentences, (propositions) can be true or false.Chairs and tables can be beautiful or wonderful for their purpose, but to call them "true" I think just confuses everyone.Then we end up with discussions on "What is TRUTH"! 1
mfbukowski Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 I am looking through a microscope at a paramecium.Is the paramecium true or false?
Questing Beast Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 What does true mean with regards to religion? Does it matter and why?Is there only one truth?Truth is individually perceived. No two of us exactly agree on truth, not even in the same belief in the same dogma. It doesn't matter, as long as I follow the "truth" that is in my core being (heart). Following someone else's truth, even if they are in a position of oracular authority, while going against what I feel oppositely to be the truth, is not justification, but rather condemnation.Any sin against your "inner light" (convictions) is an offense against "God". I don't believe that any other "sin" exists; all other acts that do not directly involve a "sin against conscience" are in reality ignorant acts at the time of their commission.... 2
mfbukowski Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 What does true mean with regards to religion? Does it matter and why?Is there only one truth?True religion is what gives you meaning in life and explains the big questions about your place in the world and cosmos better than any other explanations you have found.The real clincher is when God himself tells you that you got your answer right. That's about all we can know about it. 1
Ahab Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 There are eternal truths; those things that are absolute. There is not a single truth.So there is not a single truth in what you are saying?
Ahab Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 What does true mean with regards to religion? Does it matter and why?Is there only one truth?The word "true" has multiple meanings, in both secular and religious contexts:real or correct: conforming with reality or factgenuine: genuine, not pretended, insincere, or artificialpersonally faithful: showing loyalty to another personSometimes it helps to think in terms of opposites, and one thing that anything true isn't is false.
Gervin Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 The problems arise when we try to think of it as etched in stone in a pediment of a Greek temple saying " TRUTH".That's exactly how I think of Truth, but the stone is a cornerstone and the temple is Christ. Or so he claimed.
mfbukowski Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 That's exactly how I think of Truth, but the stone is a cornerstone and the temple is Christ. Or so he claimed.Was that the truth? How do you know?
mfbukowski Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Someone might say: "Independent of your perceptions, how do you know that God has revealed something to you?"My answer: Independent of your perceptions how do you know this is a table?Better yet: Independent of your perceptions how do you know you love your wife? 1
Ahab Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Someone might say: "Independent of your perceptions, how do you know that God has revealed something to you?"My question in response to your question: Can God reveal something to you, or tell you something, without you perceiving it?Suppose he came down here and stood right in front of you and said something to you without you realizing he was God and he was talking to you, for example.I know who my wife is but still sometimes I don't perceive that she is talking to me or what she is saying.
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