Coercion

[Stone holm]

How many of you have run into the argument against government economic programs and higher taxation of the very high income earners as coercion, and at the same time from the same members have heard that expanding the definition of marriage to include same sex couples is coercive towards heterosexuals. I heard a Stake President make the latter argument to combined Priesthood Quorum session in our Ward. I have never thought either were very good arguments, although I can understand the need for conservative heterosexuals to portray themselves as victims. There also seems to be this sense that whatever people earn is theirs and theirs alone -- which I think resonates with Americans who have relatively effective police and fire departments, and various programs which keep civil unrest at manageable levels, except without those programs I wonder just how long what people earn those people would be able to hold onto. My suspicion is not very long. Also, it is interesting that when you look at the States which receive more in subsidies than they pay in taxes, that those States which pay in more in taxes are the ones arguing for more programs and the ones who receive more in subsidies are the ones arguing against more programs.

How exactly do these ironies occur?

[omni]

Anybody have the over/under on how long this thread stays open?

[Stone holm]

Anybody have the over/under on how long this thread stays open?

LOL

[bluebell]

Also, it is interesting that when you look at the States which receive more in subsidies than they pay in taxes, that those States which pay in more in taxes are the ones arguing for more programs and the ones who receive more in subsidies are the ones arguing against more programs.

How exactly do these ironies occur?

Could post the reference for this?

[why me]

Thread closed by the end of the day.

[Stone holm]

Could post the reference for this?

This is a fairly well known irony.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/08/01-2

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning/2012/10/25/blue_state_red_face_guess_who_benefits_more_from_your_taxes.html

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/the_red_state_ripoff.html

[The Nehor]

"Taxation is outrageous!!!!!!" -quote from a time when federal taxes have been their lowest since World War II.

Doing my part to help Why Me win the pool by closing this thread down.

[bluebell]

This is a fairly well known irony.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/08/01-2

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning/2012/10/25/blue_state_red_face_guess_who_benefits_more_from_your_taxes.html

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/the_red_state_ripoff.html

The last two articles confuse me.

The first has ND and WY as part of the 10 lowest states receiving tax aid and the last has them both lumped in with the worst offender states.

Maybe i'm reading the information wrong.

Also, did they take into account population? Wyoming, for example, only has a little more than 500,000 residents total for the entire state. How do they compare the amount of taxes that WY pays with the amount paid by a state with a lot more people (I'm guessing they have figured out how to do it, I'm just wondering how it works).

Edited August 2, 2013 by bluebell

[afamilyguy]

How exactly do these ironies occur?

Because some people just don't understand principles or care about being consistent?

[jim_mason]

Because some people just don't understand principles or care about being consistent?

That is a great response.

[ERMD]

"Also, it is interesting that when you look at the States which receive more in subsidies than they pay in taxes, that those States which pay in more in taxes are the ones arguing for more programs and the ones who receive more in subsidies are the ones arguing against more programs."

Where did THAT come from? Texas receives little in subsidies of many types and is about as anti-government program as you can get.

[Stone holm]

The last two articles confuse me.

The first has ND and WY as part of the 10 lowest states receiving tax aid and the last has them both lumped in with the worst offender states.

Maybe i'm reading the information wrong.

Also, did they take into account population? Wyoming, for example, only has a little more than 500,000 residents total for the entire state. How do they compare the amount of taxes that WY pays with the amount paid by a state with a lot more people (I'm guessing they have figured out how to do it, I'm just wondering how it works).

The farm subsidies are what does it. They are all commodity based. Incomes tend to be higher generally in the coastal states.

[Stone holm]

"Also, it is interesting that when you look at the States which receive more in subsidies than they pay in taxes, that those States which pay in more in taxes are the ones arguing for more programs and the ones who receive more in subsidies are the ones arguing against more programs."

Where did THAT come from? Texas receives little in subsidies of many types and is about as anti-government program as you can get.

Texas pays for its public education based on oil extraction taxes. It's ranches are receive heavy subsidies. There used to be a 300% subsidy on mohair, the subsidy was repealed under Clinton, but I believe it may have been reinstated under Bush. When the subsidy was repealed the Texan let their flocks run wild. Texas is the primary State for Angora goats the source of Mohair.

[JarMan]

You've tried this thread before. Here's a quick review. Your ideas were challenged. You ignored the challenges and instead pontificated about things unrleated to the subject. Things got political. The thread was shut down.

I've placed my peep stone into a hat and taken a look. It's telling me this thread will go exactly the same way.

[CV75]

How exactly do these ironies occur?

I see no irony in anyone’s misuse of the word coercion. Citizens are obliged to use U.S. tax tables and can be penalized for not; changing definitions of words like “marriage” are a broader and deeper infringement upon more personally-held mores believed to be in society’s best interests.

Of course there is a sense held by some that that whatever people earn (or hold dear, in the case of marriage) is theirs and theirs alone. The more personally one takes things, the more he will make them a part of hsi personal and psychic identity. The Gospel gives everyone everything one could ever want.

Maintaining public safety is a balance of individual, mutual and collective responsibility for behavior. Some is regulatory and some is based in the conscience.

I suspect that satisfaction with high-tax / lower benefits and dissatisfaction with low-tax / higher benefits has to do with the ability to pay higher taxes, how those revenues are generated, and where along the economic (political) spectrum the popular, population and corporate structures have been shifting.