A Mystical Motive For Haredi Opposition To The Byu Jerusalem Center

[Stone holm]

I had a feeling that she was, if our church is too dogmatic for her liking...

Yep the Reform are very dogmatic about being non-dogmatic.

[Calm]

In keeping with the content of your own first entry, I was merely pointing out that there are no typical Jews. .

Ellen, that wasn't really in keeping with the content of his first entry in my opinion, which is dealing with a specific aspect of why there was resistance to the presence of the LDS centre in Jerusalem, an aspect that has never been discussed before on this board in my memory and which I find very interesting.

[EllenMaksoud]

Ellen, that wasn't really in keeping with the content of his first entry in my opinion, which is dealing with a specific aspect of why there was resistance to the presence of the LDS centre in Jerusalem, an aspect that has never been discussed before on this board in my memory and which I find very interesting.

I'm sorry

You are derailing, please stop.

[Calm]

I've not been able to locate Kaduri's original statement, so I'll venture two guesses. It could be seen as God's punishing the people for allowing such evil and impurity by taking away one of their greatest leaders, or it could be seen as an increase in the powers of the evil force, the Sitra Ahra.

Is anything different from their community seen as a threat to the purity of it? Would any different religious presence at the location have drawn pretty much the same response or was there something unique seen for the LDS to do this? And would locating the intruding religious/evil presence at a location with less spiritual significance have resulted in the same response or a lesser one or perhaps even been ignored?

[Calm]

And one more...was it likely a case of their leader getting sick and then looking around for a cause of the sickness or the reverse, a sense that the presence of the LDS was wrong and therefore harmful and then looking around to find where the harm manifested? (sorry if I am getting too wrapped up in the details, the psychological process is very interesting to me).

[boblloyd91]

Not quite. There is a range of views, the Ger Hasidim and Kaduri being at the more extreme end. Conversion is seen as severely damaging the soul's place in the divine structure of the cosmos- it causes further rupture thus delaying redemption- and one is considered as being cut off from the house of Israel.

I have heard that Judaism in general does believe in temporal torment after this life, but that overall they have a fairly universalistic worldview. I have also heard that they view evil differently then the normal Christian worldview (in fact I may be mistaken, but don't some schools of thought in Judaism see Satan as an angel working for God and not a rebellious angel cast out of Heaven?)

[volgadon]

dealing with a specific aspect of why there was resistance to the presence of the LDS centre in Jerusalem, an aspect that has never been discussed before on this board in my memory and which I find very interesting.

I'm glad that you find it interesting. While things like Ed Decker's lecture, or the accusations that LDS spread AIDS, have been discussed, I could find no mention in English of this aspect.

Is anything different from their community seen as a threat to the purity of it?

In a sense, yes. The Haredi world's motto is what is new is forbidden by the Torah. There are cases from about the same time frame of Ger Hasidim kidnapping back youth who left the fold.

Would any different religious presence at the location have drawn pretty much the same response or was there something unique seen for the LDS to do this?

It might have, but our church had two strikes against it. One, it is Christian, two, it emphasises proselytising. Alter was very much opposed to the CHristian presence in Jerusalem, and brought his influence to bear on anything that he saw as Christian encroachment on Jewish sanctity.

And would locating the intruding religious/evil presence at a location with less spiritual significance have resulted in the same response or a lesser one or perhaps even been ignored?

A lesser response, I would say. Mt. Scopus is particularly conspicuous, so that didn't help matters.

And one more...was it likely a case of their leader getting sick and then looking around for a cause of the sickness or the reverse, a sense that the presence of the LDS was wrong and therefore harmful and then looking around to find where the harm manifested? (sorry if I am getting too wrapped up in the details, the psychological process is very interesting to me).

Given the Rebbe's opposition to the construction of the Center prior to his illness, I would say that when he got sick people looked for the cause.

[Calm]

the accusations that LDS spread AIDS

Seriously? That is a new one to me, will be doing some research...no CFR here.

[volgadon]

Seriously? That is a new one to me, will be doing some research...no CFR here.

It was one of the accusations made by Yad L'Achim. I don't recall if Daniel Kelly Ogden's book mentions it, but Levydoes, and here is a news article from 1986. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986-02-11/news/8601110192_1_mormon-religion-mormon-faith-jews-and-christians

[Calm]

Thank you because it is apparently obscure enough that I wasn't having much luck.

[Stone holm]

I'm glad that you find it interesting. While things like Ed Decker's lecture, or the accusations that LDS spread AIDS, have been discussed, I could find no mention in English of this aspect.

In a sense, yes. The Haredi world's motto is what is new is forbidden by the Torah. There are cases from about the same time frame of Ger Hasidim kidnapping back youth who left the fold.

It might have, but our church had two strikes against it. One, it is Christian, two, it emphasises proselytising. Alter was very much opposed to the CHristian presence in Jerusalem, and brought his influence to bear on anything that he saw as Christian encroachment on Jewish sanctity.

A lesser response, I would say. Mt. Scopus is particularly conspicuous, so that didn't help matters.

Given the Rebbe's opposition to the construction of the Center prior to his illness, I would say that when he got sick people looked for the cause.

Love the one about us spreading aids, it is reassuring to see the Jews have their very own Pat Robertson.

[oMtonic]

The BYU Jerusalem Center fascinates me, and gaining a greater understanding of the opposition towards its fruition was certainly appreciated by me. Thanks, volgadon!