Back To The Garden: Eden In Mormonism

[thesometimesaint]

Depending on how loosely evolution is defined I'm an evolutionist. I am certain that things change (evolve) but only in the micro sense and not in the macro sense. I think that evolution in the macro sense is an extrapolation of micro evolution beyond its valid bounds.

No; you are a exo-genesist Creationist be proud of it.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/macroevolution.html

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

[CV75]

I see, so you would discount macro evolution because you have not actually seen something caught "in transition" from one type to another as a result of natural selection. Would you actually know it if you did see it?

My post was about the impropriety of your example; it is about as good as using the peppered moth (evolution cannot be caused by non-differential changes, so they cannot be used as evidence). it is just an invitation to find a better example for your argument.

Edit: I think it was actually TSS' argument!

Edited June 27, 2013 by CV75

[cdowis]

Now, back to Eden, can we get together on the idea that the condition of Adam and Eve when they entered the garden of Eden and were still without sin is the same as the condition of our Lord after he was resurrected? The "Fall" happened after they sinned, and when they fell they became mortal like us. Through the atonement of our Lord Jesus Christ we can be restored to the same condition as Adam and Eve were in before they fell.

Adam was "innocent", not perfected. His body was in a transitional state where it could become mortal, subject to death. while our resurrected body can never physically die again.

These are very different states, not similar at all.

I know the answers because they have been provided by prophets of God, but sometimes it helps others to hear the questions.

Hopefully that helps.

[Ahab]

Adam was "innocent", not perfected. His body was in a transitional state where it could become mortal, subject to death. while our resurrected body can never physically die again.

I know he wasn't perfected, but his body was in a perfect condition (not subject to death) before the Fall and he would have lived forever in that incorruptible body had it not been for the Fall. The purpose of the atonement of Jesus Christ is to redeem us from that Fall, restoring us (or our bodies) back to the condition they were in before the Fall. It is a restoration, not a totally new thing, and the only difference is that it will be an eternal condition rather than something that can transition, again.

I know this is true, and what I understand from this knowledge is that the Fall was a very big deal in how it changed the state his body was in before that moment. Imagine someone who is the same kind of being we refer to as God being able to become mortal! If more people understood what condition Adam was in before he fell I think fewer people would have trouble realizing we are the same kind of being as God and the theory of evolution would be tossed out the window. We didn't evolve. We fell.

I understand what you mean about a transitional state, but the state he was in before he transitioned to the mortal state was the same state our Lord was in after he was resurrected except that it was no longer a transitional state . The resurrection made it an eternal state, but other than that it was the same state.

[ERayR]

No; you are a exo-genesist Creationist be proud of it.

http://www.talkorigi...oevolution.html

http://www.talkorigi...g/faqs/comdesc/

I have a hard time even pronouncing it.

[theplains]

If more people understood what condition Adam was in before he fell I think fewer people would have trouble realizing we are the same kind of being as God and the theory of evolution would be tossed out the window. We didn't evolve. We fell.

When God created the angels, do you believe they were created as the same kind of being

that he is?

When Adam and Eve fell, was there a joyous celebration in heaven when they 'supposedly'

fulfilled their part of the plan?

Thanks,

Jim

[ERayR]

When God created the angels, do you believe they were created as the same kind of being

that he is?

When Adam and Eve fell, was there a joyous celebration in heaven when they 'supposedly'

fulfilled their part of the plan?

Thanks,

Jim

I wasn't there but from where I stand I see the answers as: Yes and Yes.

[Ahab]

When God created the angels, do you believe they were created as the same kind of being

that he is?

When Adam and Eve fell, was there a joyous celebration in heaven when they 'supposedly'

fulfilled their part of the plan?

Thanks,

Jim

yes and yes.

The word angel is simply another word for messenger and anyone of us can be a messenger for either our Father or anyone else who is God, and fi Adam and Eve had not fallen nobody else in heaven would have been coming to this Earth. We had already talked about how all of us could be redeemed from that Fall and most of us accepted it as something that was a necessary part of our education and an experience that would help us to become more like our Father in heaven.

[Stone holm]

yes and yes.

The word angel is simply another word for messenger and anyone of us can be a messenger for either our Father or anyone else who is God, and fi Adam and Eve had not fallen nobody else in heaven would have been coming to this Earth. We had already talked about how all of us could be redeemed from that Fall and most of us accepted it as something that was a necessary part of our education and an experience that would help us to become more like our Father in heaven.

Agreed. Part of the Plan was to have one of us make the decision for all of us, and Michael and Eve were selected to make the decision for all of us, exactly how long they lived there before making that decision is not known or declared.