Is God A Recycler?

[Stone holm]

In another thread about anomalies in coal deposits, the question came up about the meaning of phrases like "a world shall pass away" and what it means when we are talking about "matter unorganized". It has also been sometimes alluded to in argument that certain fossils might be present due to the Earth being composed or debris from other worlds. So your thoughts? Is God a recycler and if so what exactly does He recycle? Does He ever abort a creation which has gone awry, or does every cake He bakes turn out perfectly?

[ERayR]

In another thread about anomalies in coal deposits, the question came up about the meaning of phrases like "a world shall pass away" and what it means when we are talking about "matter unorganized". It has also been sometimes alluded to in argument that certain fossils might be present due to the Earth being composed or debris from other worlds. So your thoughts? Is God a recycler and if so what exactly does He recycle? Does He ever abort a creation which has gone awry, or does every cake He bakes turn out perfectly?

Interesting questions. Is there anything in the scriptures besides the "a world shall pass away" phrase that lends any credence to this theory from that direction.

As for the question does every cake He bakes turn out perfectly? I don't know what you mean by perfectly but I am convinced they always turn out the way he plans.

[thesometimesaint]

Much is dependent on what we consider matter unorganized, and a world passing away.

The Roman world is gone thought the city of Rome is still there. Will the US eventually decline to what we now call a third world nation? Most likely, but probably not in my lifetime.

To date there is nothing that establishes life as we know it anywhere other than this planet. But we keep looking anyway.

Eventually everything gets recycled in one form or another. Further down the road even the very protons that make up matter as we know it will dissolve into the nothingness. Who knows but at that distant far off time the Gods will once again say "Let there be light", and it will be.

[The Nehor]

I am going to heaven to. Get away from recycling bins. If they are there I am boycotting.

[rodheadlee]

In another thread about anomalies in coal deposits, the question came up about the meaning of phrases like "a world shall pass away" and what it means when we are talking about "matter unorganized". It has also been sometimes alluded to in argument that certain fossils might be present due to the Earth being composed or debris from other worlds. So your thoughts? Is God a recycler and if so what exactly does He recycle? Does He ever abort a creation which has gone awry, or does every cake He bakes turn out perfectly?

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be ^afruitful, and ^bmultiply, and ^creplenish the ^dearth, and subdue it: and have ^edominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth . re·plen·ish

/riˈpleniSH/

Verb

• Fill (something) up again.
  
• Restore (a stock or supply of something) to the former level or condition.
  

Edited May 21, 2013 by rodheadlee

[Stone holm]

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be ^afruitful, and ^bmultiply, and ^creplenish the ^dearth, and subdue it: and have ^edominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth . re·plen·ish

/riˈpleniSH/

Verb

• Fill (something) up again.
  
• Restore (a stock or supply of something) to the former level or condition.
  

Very interesting. By the way i do not necessarily subscribe to the theory, am just putting it out there for discussion purposes since it was suggested that a separate thread be created. I gave you a bump on this response as very informative. Do we have any ancient language geeks on who can tell us about the word that was in the Hebrew that was translated as "replenish"?

[Stone holm]

Much is dependent on what we consider matter unorganized, and a world passing away.

The Roman world is gone thought the city of Rome is still there. Will the US eventually decline to what we now call a third world nation? Most likely, but probably not in my lifetime.

To date there is nothing that establishes life as we know it anywhere other than this planet. But we keep looking anyway.

Eventually everything gets recycled in one form or another. Further down the road even the very protons that make up matter as we know it will dissolve into the nothingness. Who knows but at that distant far off time the Gods will once again say "Let there be light", and it will be.

Is that actually consistent with our doctrine? It would suggest that even God would not be eternal.

[The Nehor]

The word translated as replenish means fill. The verse is not evidence that the earth was previously plenished.

[changed]

I'm a fan of the recycling idea for a few reasons.

- the flood seems to be an example of a new world being built on the ruins of an older world.

- the millinium seems to be an example of a new world being built on the ruins of an older world.

(Book of Mormon | Ether 13:9)

9 And there shall be a new heaven and a new earth; and they shall be like unto the old save the old have passed away, and all things have become new.

If the same plan of slavation is used on all worlds (and I think it is - "no other way") there seems to be a cycle - perfect world falls, then becomes perfected again. If those who come to inhabit the perfect celestial world take on the responsibility of refining a new population - there will be another fall etc. etc.

[changed]

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:2)

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

there are some who translate "hayah" differently.

2 And the earth had become without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

[Stone holm]

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:2)

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

there are some who translate "hayah" differently.

2 And the earth had become without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

If it "had become" did that suggest that someone lived here before Adam? and if so, where did they go and why didn't the Earth become a Kingdom -- was it a practice cake, or was it like green manure plowed under in preparation of this Earth?

[thesometimesaint]

Is that actually consistent with our doctrine? It would suggest that even God would not be eternal.

I find it totally consistent. The Gods have been making suns and planets from before the foundations of this world were made. They will continue to do so for all of eternity. I'm just drawing that eternity out longer than a few thousand years that some religionists claim.

[changed]

If it "had become" did that suggest that someone lived here before Adam? and if so, where did they go and why didn't the Earth become a Kingdom -- was it a practice cake, or was it like green manure plowed under in preparation of this Earth?

(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:35)

35 But only an account of this earth (this age), and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds (many ages) that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

like I said before, all we can know is the cycle that happens within our world - or within our age (a new world = a new age?)... but I do think there are repeating patterns to it all, so that we can learn quite a lot by simply pondering the cycles we observe here.

[Stone holm]

(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:35)

35 But only an account of this earth (this age), and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds (many ages) that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

like I said before, all we can know is the cycle that happens within our world - or within our age (a new world = a new age?)... but I do think there are repeating patterns to it all, so that we can learn quite a lot by simply pondering the cycles we observe here.

I remember screwing up in a graduate history seminar on the difference between a classical view of history and a Christian view because the former was cyclical and the latter not, this would stand that on its head.

[rodheadlee]

The word translated as replenish means fill. The verse is not evidence that the earth was previously plenished.

yeah but can it mean refill? Depending on context.

[The Nehor]

yeah but can it mean refill? Depending on context.

Not really. It means fill. Replenish meant fill in English at the time the KJV was written.

It could mean refill in the sense that the verb fill can include refilling something. If I fill a glass with water the word does not discriminate as to whether the glass was ever filled before. The word is neutral as to whether the earth was ever filled before.

[changed]

I remember screwing up in a graduate history seminar on the difference between a classical view of history and a Christian view because the former was cyclical and the latter not, this would stand that on its head.

I don't know who defined what the "Christian" view is supposed to entail, but for me -

(Book of Mormon | Alma 38:9)

9 And now, my son, I have told you ... that there is no other way or means whereby man can be saved...

I do think that other worlds follow the same pattern - if there was an easier way, I think all worlds would follow the easiest least painful way, don't you?

(New Testament | Matthew 7:14)

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

seems to be a single, narrow, well defined path - everything else leading somewhere else.... other worlds would have children also formed in the image of God, would also require salvation - I think it's just one long cycle.

(New Testament | John 5:19)

The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do

following the example of what has come before...

Edited May 21, 2013 by changed

[Stone holm]

I don't know who defined what the "Christian" view is supposed to entail, but for me -

(Book of Mormon | Alma 38:9)

9 And now, my son, I have told you ... that there is no other way or means whereby man can be saved...

I do think that other worlds follow the same pattern - if there was an easier way, I think all worlds would follow the easiest least painful way, don't you?

(New Testament | Matthew 7:14)

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

seems to be a single, narrow, well defined path - everything else leading somewhere else.... other worlds would have children also formed in the image of God, would also require salvation - I think it's just one long cycle.

(New Testament | John 5:19)

The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do

following the example of what has come before...

It is linear leading to the Second Coming, where Classical goes through stages: Primititive, Pastoral, Golden Age, Decadence, Decay, primitive, etc. I think what threw me off is that Mormons tend to think of a combination since the Book of Mormon definitely goes through cycles. But the cyclical we are discussing here would almost be beyond time, we are talking about planetary renewal.

[Salem]

Not really. It means fill. Replenish meant fill in English at the time the KJV was written.

It could mean refill in the sense that the verb fill can include refilling something. If I fill a glass with water the word does not discriminate as to whether the glass was ever filled before. The word is neutral as to whether the earth was ever filled before.

After the great flood, God commanded Noah and his family to multily and "replenish" the earth (Gen 9:1)

In this case, "replenish" clearly means to refill or fill the earth again.

Note that the same Hebrew word is used to describes God's commandment to Adam and Eve when He said multiply and "replenish" the earth (Gen 1:28)

[inquiringmind]

(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:35)

35 But only an account of this earth (this age), and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds (many ages) that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

like I said before, all we can know is the cycle that happens within our world - or within our age (a new world = a new age?)... but I do think there are repeating patterns to it all, so that we can learn quite a lot by simply pondering the cycles we observe here.

Did JS ever comment on the meaning of the Greek word Aion?

I use to think aion meant age, and cosmos world, but doesn't JS treat them as synonyms?

P.S. I know we have no original manuscripts, and it's possible that the Greek text of the NT was corrupted (or even that large parts of the original text were in Aramaic.)

[Flyonthewall]

I am of the opinion that God "recycles", or at least is not wasteful.

I also am of the opinion that the fossil record on this earth is, not from other worlds used to form this one, but are remnants of earlier ages of this planet. Same planet but different world...

Now to the question of whether or not any "cakes" God bakes go awry...well not sure...if so, does that mean He's not perfect?

I would say that whatever "cake" He starts eventually comes round to what He wants it to be...until it obeys.

[Salem]

Stone holm,

On the other thread, you asked if I were sure that "pass away" was not referring to the conversion from a mortal planet to a kingdom. No, I am not sure, but to me "pass away" sounds more like a death than a conversion to a kingdom.

[Stone holm]

Stone holm,

On the other thread, you asked if I were sure that "pass away" was not referring to the conversion from a mortal planet to a kingdom. No, I am not sure, but to me "pass away" sounds more like a death than a conversion to a kingdom.

Yes and no. It does sound like a death, but it followed by reference to a new world. Which makes it sound like it could possibly refer to death followed by resurrection in an altered form. In other words conversion from a lone and dreary world to a glorified Kingdom. But, I am not saying your approach is wrong. Do we have any language geeks who want to weigh in on what the original language may have signified?

[cdowis]

I think that He recycles in the sense of interchangeable parts. Evolution views this as the evolution from lower species to higher ones, and uses the similarity of

DNA as evidence. But I see this as a recycle of a design in multiple organisms, not necessary to optimize for each creature.

[bcuzbcuz]

I think that He recycles in the sense of interchangeable parts. Evolution views this as the evolution from lower species to higher ones, and uses the similarity of

DNA as evidence. But I see this as a recycle of a design in multiple organisms, not necessary to optimize for each creature.

Intelligent design, in other words.