Keeping One'S Testimony In The Coming Anti-Religion Tsunami

[Stone holm]

I expect a wave of anti-Muslim revulsion in the wake of the Boston bombings from one sector of American society. Depending on the depth of bigotry involved in this wave, I expect a more general revulsion against religion in general in American society which will in particular hit our younger generation. It seems to me that we are going to need all of our powers of persuasion coupled with the Holy Ghost to deflect this wave from impacting the Church.

[blackstrap]

So far , I have yet to see any evidence showing that those boys regularly attended A mosque or class where they were indoctrinated by some radical Imam . Until that shows up , there should be little religious backlash.

[BCSpace]

I expect a wave of anti-Muslim revulsion in the wake of the Boston bombings from one sector of American society. Depending on the depth of bigotry involved in this wave

Is it bigotry to understand Islam beyond the propaganda of CAIR? I highly recommend you abandon the westernized fairy tale version of Islam and study from an actual scholar of Islam such as http://www.danielpipes.org/

The anti religious tidal wave against Christianity however, is already upon us.

Edited April 21, 2013 by BCSpace

[Saints Alive]

I doubt there will be a wave of anti-Islam bigotry. Even after 9/11 there wasn't that much anti-Islam bigotry and that was much more related to Muslim extremism than this. If there is anti-Islam bigotry I doubt it will translate or morph into anti religion bigotry. That's not to say there won't be a further increase in the none religious.

[ERayR]

I expect a wave of anti-Muslim revulsion in the wake of the Boston bombings from one sector of American society. Depending on the depth of bigotry involved in this wave, I expect a more general revulsion against religion in general in American society which will in particular hit our younger generation. It seems to me that we are going to need all of our powers of persuasion coupled with the Holy Ghost to deflect this wave from impacting the Church.

When it comes it will impact the Church no matter what. Its called separating the wheat and the tares.

[ERayR]

Is it bigotry to understand Islam beyond the propaganda of CAIR? I highly recommend you abandon the westernized fairy tale version of Islam and study from an actual scholar of Islam such as http://www.danielpipes.org/

The anti religious tidal wave against Christianity however, is already upon us.

It is well to build bridges but one should do it with ones eyes wide open.

[Calm]

Even after 9/11 there wasn't that much anti-Islam bigotry...

Seriously? What about stuff like:

http://en.wikipedia....bir_Singh_Sodhi

Roque, who apparently wanted revenge for September 11, mistook him for an Arab because of the clothes he wore, his turban, and his beard. Roque then drove to aMobil gas station 10 miles away. Twenty minutes after the first shooting, he shot at a Lebanese-American clerk from his truck, but missed.[1] Roque then drove to his former residence which had been purchased by a local Afghan family and fired multiple rounds at the outside of the house. After fleeing from the final shooting, Roque was reported to have gone to a local bar and boasted that "They're investigating the murder of a turban-head down the street."[4][5]

Within 25 minutes of Sodhi's death, the Phoenix police reported four further attacks on people who either were Middle Easterners or who dressed with clothes thought to be worn by Middle Easterners.

The Sikh Coalition of Washington said yesterday that Sikhs in the US have faced more than 700 such incidents since 9/11; authorities still do not officially collect data on religious hate crimes against them.

http://www.guardian....sikh-scapegoats

http://www.splcenter...in#.UXN0Uo5CdCg

It was the highest level of anti-Muslim hate crimes since 2001, the year of the Sept. 11 attacks, when the FBI reported 481 anti-Muslim hate crimes....Immediately after the 9/11 attacks, anti-Muslim hate violence skyrocketed some 1,600%.

2000 FBI religious hate crimes:

Religion: 1,472

Anti-Jewish 1,109

Anti-Catholic 56

Anti-Protestant 59

Anti-Islamic 28

Anti-Other Religious Group 172

Anti-Multireligious Group 44

Anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc. 4

2011 FBI religious hate crimes:

Religion: 1,233

Anti-Jewish 771

Anti-Catholic 67

Anti-Protestant 44

Anti-Islamic 157

Anti-Other Religion 130

Anti-Multiple Religions, Group 60

Anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc. 4

2001 FBI religious hate crimes:

Religion: 1,828

Anti-Jewish 1043

Anti-Catholic 38

Anti-Protestant 35

Anti-Islamic 481

Anti-Other Religious Group 181

Anti-Multiple Religions, Group 45

Group Anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc. 5

http://www.fbi.gov/a.../ucr/hate-crime

By the way, Muslims are about 0.6% of the population, Jews 1.7%, Protestants are 51.3%, Catholics 23.9%, atheist 1.6% which means percentagewise Muslims are the most targeted for hate crimes among religious groups.

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

Edited April 21, 2013 by calmoriah

[MormonMason]

Is it bigotry to understand Islam beyond the propaganda of CAIR? I highly recommend you abandon the westernized fairy tale version of Islam and study from an actual scholar of Islam such as http://www.danielpipes.org/

The anti religious tidal wave against Christianity however, is already upon us.

We do not need the work of CAIR or the writings of Daniel Pipes, if we want to understand Islam. The only way to understand Islam better is to study their texts within their contexts, not get it filtered down through an individual or from varying groups. One should study the Qur'an thoroughly, as well as consult the Ahadith and Sunnah, always being aware of historical context, for all of these writings have such contexts. Islam did not rise in a vacuum and we should not take the texts of Islam in isolation or in prooftexts commonly offered to the public by critics. We should not always take the critics at their word. We wouldn't expect any less from those who would wish to study our religion, would we?

Funny thing is, both Islam's critics and the terrorists who have the mindsets that they do share the same methodology in reading the Qur'an and the Ahadith. Surprisingly, they read them the same way--isolated from their cultural, textual, and historical, contexts. It is inadvisable to follow their pitiful examples.

[Stargazer]

We do not need the work of CAIR or the writings of Daniel Pipes, if we want to understand Islam. The only way to understand Islam better is to study their texts within their contexts, not get it filtered down through an individual or from varying groups. One should study the Qur'an thoroughly, as well as consult the Ahadith and Sunnah, always being aware of historical context, for all of these writings have such contexts. Islam did not rise in a vacuum and we should not take the texts of Islam in isolation or in prooftexts commonly offered to the public by critics. We should not always take the critics at their word. We wouldn't expect any less from those who would wish to study our religion, would we?

Funny thing is, both Islam's critics and the terrorists who have the mindsets that they do share the same methodology in reading the Qur'an and the Ahadith. Surprisingly, they read them the same way--isolated from their cultural, textual, and historical, contexts. It is inadvisable to follow their pitiful examples.

Yes, but...

I could read the Koran all the way through and I wouldn't accomplish a lot in understanding today's Islam because there are a thousand radical clerics out there redefining what the Koran says about a lot of things. According to some of them, it was perfectly OK, even laudatory, for those two brothers to set and explode bombs that killed innocent women and children. I think the Koran might say something in contradiction to this.

[Calm]

Yes, but...

I could read the Koran all the way through and I wouldn't accomplish a lot in understanding today's Islam because there are a thousand radical clerics out there redefining what the Koran says about a lot of things. According to some of them, it was perfectly OK, even laudatory, for those two brothers to set and explode bombs that killed innocent women and children. I think the Koran might say something in contradiction to this.

Kind of like the variety of Christianities that share the Bible...

[Storm Rider]

I think if you talk to a Muslim you will find that they felt a significant, negative impact from Western society after 9/11. Most Muslims are very sensitive to how Islam is viewed or portrayed in the West. Fundamentally, I have concluded that there are individuals who are also Muslim and they are terrorists, but no true, faithful Muslim is a terrorist. There may be radical, Muslim clerics who preach hate and murder, but the clue is that they are "radical" and have long since left the true teachings of Islam.

[Stone holm]

I find it absolutely absurd for anyone to state that there was no rise in anti-Muslim bigotry after 9/11. And the potential for violence in certain segments of Christianity is equally strong. My thinking is that we will see a substantial rise in anti-Muslim bigotry regardless of whether there is any connection between these two morons and any mosque or leader, in fact if they are not so affiliated it may be worse. In addition, unfortunately there will also likely be a rise in the opinion that religion of all types tends to result in bad behaviour or extreme behaviour which will cause many to shy away from any contact with people who are in their opinion at all pushy with their religious views which will include proselyting Christians such as ourselves.

[Saints Alive]

I find it absolutely absurd for anyone to state that there was no rise in anti-Muslim bigotry after 9/11.

Didn't say their wasn't a rise. But let's face it before 9/11 how many average Americans even knew what a Muslim was? Was their a rise in anti-Muslim bigotry? Absolutely but it was among a very small portion of the population and even a smaller portion that acted out violently. What is absurd is to think that somehow anti-Muslim bigotry is going to cause general anti-religion bigotry. Generally after tragedy people resort to religion, they don't run away from it.

[daz2]

I would not call Daniel Pipes a disinterested scholar. At best, he is a smart but extremely polarizing person among scholars and others. http://en.wikipedia....ki/Daniel_Pipes Among other things, the article states

In an article entitled "Japanese Internment: Why It Was a Good Idea--And the Lessons It Offers Today", Pipes endorsed a defense of the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II, and linked the Japanese-American wartime situation to that of Muslim Americans today.^[34][35]

Edited April 21, 2013 by daz2

[Questing Beast]

Over a thousand cases of reported religious hate crimes per year, whoa! that's just terrible. It's everywhere it's everywhere, we're sinking into a morass of religious hate.

When "an interesting psychological phenomenon" occupies less than .000006 of the population that seems statistically non existent to me. All it's good for is job security, studying the incidence and reporting/gossiping about it....

[ERayR]

Kind of like the variety of Christianities that share the Bible...

Yep but if you are going to understand a variety of Christianity you have to read the Bible the way they do. You don't have to agree but you do have read it they way they do. The same goes for the different varieties of the Muslim religion. To say that Muslims are a peaceful people is like saying Christians are peaceful people. Some are, some are not. It is indeed foolish to attribute benign motives to all of either camp.

[smac97]

I expect a wave of anti-Muslim revulsion in the wake of the Boston bombings from one sector of American society. Depending on the depth of bigotry involved in this wave, I expect a more general revulsion against religion in general in American society which will in particular hit our younger generation. It seems to me that we are going to need all of our powers of persuasion coupled with the Holy Ghost to deflect this wave from impacting the Church.

I am curious as to how you arrive at this conjecture. Religion in the abstract and the LDS Church in particular did not experience such a backlash following the 9/11 attacks, or after the WTC bombing, the Cole bombing, the Banghazi attack, or any of the other terroristic activities perpetrated by extremists. So what makes the Boston bombing so likely to incite anti-religious hostility?

Thank you,

-Smac

[smac97]

I think if you talk to a Muslim you will find that they felt a significant, negative impact from Western society after 9/11. Most Muslims are very sensitive to how Islam is viewed or portrayed in the West. Fundamentally, I have concluded that there are individuals who are also Muslim and they are terrorists, but no true, faithful Muslim is a terrorist. There may be radical, Muslim clerics who preach hate and murder, but the clue is that they are "radical" and have long since left the true teachings of Islam.

Perhaps an apt relational comparison could be made between Islamic terrorists and the overall Muslim world and the Westboro Baptist Church and the overall Christian world.

It appears to me that the WBC folks A) are a numerically tiny fraction of Christianity; B) are pariahs, utterly rejected by their fellow Christians in word, thought and deed; but B) nevertheless are still nominally and taxonomically "Christian," and are therefore portrayed by opponents of Christianity as being the naturally culminating manifestation of that worldview.

Can we draw accurate corollaries regarding Islamic terrorists? That they A) are a numerically tiny fraction of Islam; B) are pariahs, utterly rejected by their fellow Islam in word, thought and deed; but B) nevertheless are still nominally and taxonomically "Muslim," and are therefore portrayed by opponents of Islam as being the naturally culminating manifestation of that worldview?

Thanks,

-Smac

[thesometimesaint]

I think we will find rotten examples in any barrel of apples.

[Stone holm]

We have been seeing a rise in people rejecting religion. People have been attributing that to such things as pornography and homosexuality. While that may well be true of some, it does not explain why good people are also turning away. I believe you will find that while money, fame, and power are the primary roots of evil, that many good people have come to the conclusion that religion is the bark covering its trunk. It need not be a large number of radical fanatics or even a large percentage which can have this effect all it takes is a few loudmouth idiots and a few political opportunists abusing religion to have subtle but massive negative effect.

[Calm]

Didn't say their wasn't a rise. But let's face it before 9/11 how many average Americans even knew what a Muslim was? Was their a rise in anti-Muslim bigotry? Absolutely but it was among a very small portion of the population and even a smaller portion that acted out violently.

With that reasoning one can claim that anti-Jewish bigotry is hardly present as well, and anti-Mormon totally nonexistent due to the small percentage of hate crimes. And since anti-Christian hate crimes are much less than either of Jewish or Muslim even when Protestant and Catholic are combined, then we must claim there is no such thing as the war against Christianity with your reasoning.

Anti-Muslim bigotry is the second most common form of religious hate crimes and if one factors in the percentage of Muslims present in comparison that allow for such an opportunity to attack, then it is the highest percentagewise.

[Calm]

Yep but if you are going to understand a variety of Christianity you have to read the Bible the way they do. You don't have to agree but you do have read it they way they do. The same goes for the different varieties of the Muslim religion. To say that Muslims are a peaceful people is like saying Christians are peaceful people. Some are, some are not. It is indeed foolish to attribute benign motives to all of either camp.

Totally agree.

[Calm]

Over a thousand cases of reported religious hate crimes per year.......

You are misunderstanding my use of the hate crimes stats. Thankfully religious bigotry rarely reaches the point of violence. What that stats do demonstrate is the increase in violence and thus bigotry toward the Muslim population post 9/11.

[wenglund]

As a general rule, I am against punishing whole groups of people for the sins of a few, regardless of the group--i.e. I am against pejorative stereotyping..

However, to me, the problem with modern society is that it tends to discriminate in its application of this general rule. There are preferred groups for which the media and politicians will immediately express caution against visiting upon the whole the sins of a few, almost to the point of giving preference to the caution over rightful expressions of outrage at certain heinous acts, while yet with other groups they become willing participants in visiting the sins of a few onto the whole. To see this, one need but look at the different treatment in the media that Liberals, blacks, and Muslims, and homosexuals get as compared with Right-wing, white, Christians, Tea Party members.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

You are misunderstanding my use of the hate crimes stats.

He also seems clueless as to the what the statistic doesn't speak to, which may be somewhat more meaningful than the cited statistics, and this is the more subtle forms of bigotry, which in some ways and respects may be more prevalent and insidious.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-