Mormon Women In Combat

[Maidservant]

Maybe the women could do all the fighting and let the men stay home.

Maybe we could throw a war and nobody would come.

[thesometimesaint]

I prefer the latter.

[Saints Alive]

Senior staff levels require actual ground combat experience, from which women are excluded.

Your ASVAB score is but one of the considerations used by the military for which person gets which job. Ground combat positions were not open to women.

For the most part most don't carry a weapon into a war zone. There are about 200 support personnel for every jet jockey in the military.

Yes there are, and opening ground combat positions to them will allow them to be even greater leaders.

You very obviously don't know what you are talking about, allow me to demonstrate:

There are women in senior staff positions in almost every brigade / command I have been associated with.

In the Army anyway, everyone except the chaplain carries a weapon... Period.

Combat positions are a very small portion of the Army, and women are already great leaders without being in the infantry.

[thesometimesaint]

Of course I don't know what I'm talking. I only am military brat and a Vietnam Era vet myself.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Men can be raped as well.

I think in any job where someone else's life is hanging in the balance, women should have to meet the same standards considered necessary for men (not just lowering standards all around, but maintaining standards thought important to the job...like being able to carry a full grown man if necessary for paramedics and fire fighters, being able to carry supplies, guns and ammo for oneself in combat, be able to run after and take down a full grown man for police etc.)

All the more reason to spare them this horror. When we did civilian support for babies who needed life flight, women and nurses to help pre-mature babies. I am not saying women don't serve well, but leave killing and war to men. Edited January 24, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

Women are so much better at typing let's keep them out of executive rolls.

I don't favor war, but if we're going to fight them why limit it to just half the population?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Pa Pa:

Women are so much better at typing let's keep them out of executive rolls.

I don't favor war, but if we're going to fight them why limit it to just half the population?

I would not have expected a stroytupe insult from a fiend, bucause women are supposed to bring out our more gentle side. I am a Southern gentleman, I will never agree to this thing...never. It is vulgar

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

I would not have expected a stroytupe insult from a fiend, bucause women are supposed to bring out our more gentle side. I am a Southern gentleman, I will never agree to this thing...never. It is vulgar

I hope you don't consider me a fiend.

My momma taught me to always treat a women like she is a lady until she proves she isn't a lady.

A woman with a gun is still a person with a gun, and I wouldn't hesitate for a fraction of a second longer than I would with a man if she was pointing it at me.

I lived in the South '64-'68 and '71-'72. The Glass Ceiling as alive and well as other ceilings that were in effect then.

Personally if my cookies are in the fire it doesn't matter to me a bit whom rescues me whether it is a man or a woman.

Edited January 24, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[Buzzard]

I see a problem developing. The Military, for all it's wonderful qualities, has never been a real bastion of sexual morality. Now, with men and women serving side by side, we see senior commanders having their careers ended for making passes at women and for carrying on affairs. Adultery is still unlawful in the military, at least for officers, not sure for non-coms.

And one of the biggest logistical headaches for the navy is lifting-and replacing-women who become pregnant while at sea from their ships. And now women will be serving in submarines that typically stay submerged for months at a time.

I just don't see many positives in mixing basic human biology with our national military mission.

[Tacenda]

I don't think mom's should leave their children to go off to war. I know of one woman who lost custody of her two son's over it. If they choose to serve, fine, but if they have children they should then serve in that capacity, call me old fashioned.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Tacenda

[tyler90az]

I don't think mom's should leave their children to go off to war. I know of one woman who lost custody of her two son's over it. If they choose to serve, fine, but if they have children they should then serve in that capacity, call me old fashioned.

I was under the impression a person can not join if they are single with kids.

[tyler90az]

I lived in the South '64-'68 and '71-'72. The Glass Ceiling as alive and well as other ceilings that were in effect then.

I agree to a point, I think it is probably is harder for women to get promoted. In the same way it is in the civilian world. However, it is not some regulation or for the reasons you stated. There is a woman that is the highest military rank though.

[thesometimesaint]

I see a problem developing. The Military, for all it's wonderful qualities, has never been a real bastion of sexual morality. Now, with men and women serving side by side, we see senior commanders having their careers ended for making passes at women and for carrying on affairs. Adultery is still unlawful in the military, at least for officers, not sure for non-coms.

And one of the biggest logistical headaches for the navy is lifting-and replacing-women who become pregnant while at sea from their ships. And now women will be serving in submarines that typically stay submerged for months at a time.

I just don't see many positives in mixing basic human biology with our national military mission.

It is illegal for non-coms too.

Keep it your pants and it will be no problem for either sex.

[Tacenda]

Tyler, she joined after she married and had kids, what I'm saying is it was probably hard on her marriage and kids.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Tacenda

[thesometimesaint]

The first female General was in 2008, and women were still excluded from combat units until just the other day.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/01/ban-women-combat-will-officially-end/61335/

[Saints Alive]

Of course I don't know what I'm talking [about]. I only am military brat and a Vietnam Era vet myself.

Yes and I am currently in the military, so I think I have a better grasp on the the current situation and you are wrong. Edited January 24, 2013 by Saints Alive

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Men can be raped as well.

I think in any job where someone else's life is hanging in the balance, women should have to meet the same standards considered necessary for men (not just lowering standards all around, but maintaining standards thought important to the job...like being able to carry a full grown man if necessary for paramedics and fire fighters, being able to carry supplies, guns and ammo for oneself in combat, be able to run after and take down a full grown man for police etc.)

When it comes to war and violence, believe me, they need no such equality.

[Nathair/|\]

Women are way too valuable to be wasted in combat, but I'd hate to think what history would be like without women warriors like Boadicea and Grainne ni Mhaole. It was said that if a Celt had his wife with him, he had nothing to fear from a whole Roman legion.

[Buzzard]

It is illegal for non-coms too.

Keep it your pants and it will be no problem for either sex.

Ah, but that's the point. For whatever reason, the military culture is not conducive to keeping ones zipper zipped. Present and recent past experience has and is showing that putting young men and women together in a job where you don't go home every day at 6:00 is asking for problems.

This is not to denigrate nor presume immorality on the many fine members of the military both LDS and non-LDS who are able to stay morally clean. But objective evidence strongly suggests they are in the minority in the military even more so than in the civilian world.

[EllenMaksoud]

Ah, but that's the point. For whatever reason, the military culture is not conducive to keeping ones zipper zipped. Present and recent past experience has and is showing that putting young men and women together in a job where you don't go home every day at 6:00 is asking for problems.

This is not to denigrate nor presume immorality on the many fine members of the military both LDS and non-LDS who are able to stay morally clean. But objective evidence strongly suggests they are in the minority in the military even more so than in the civilian world.

I served in the US Army in the years 66-69' and at that time women were so segregated from men that I seldom ever saw a man. After looking at some Youtube videos of Iraq and Afghanistan, I see that women are much more exposed now.

I just finished reading an article about Panetta in Reuters, and the situations begins to come clear. Apparently there are just lots of deaths of women in Iraq and Afghanistan, so it seems that at least part of this issue is seeing to it that women get the same pay, and recognition as men. The last I heard, 27% of the military is made up of women, and the way the Military is run now days, almost any area in country can become a combat zone without warning. I did not know.

Edited January 25, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

[Saints Alive]

so it seems that at least part of this issue is seeing to it that women get the same pay...

They already do, pay is based on rank and time in service. They also get hazardous duty pay the moment they step foot in a war zone, regardless of their job.

[EllenMaksoud]

They already do, pay is based on rank and time in service. They also get hazardous duty pay the moment they step foot in a war zone, regardless of their job.

So, what would you say the point is?

[Saints Alive]

So, what would you say the point is?

Other than complete equality, I don't know. Honestly, I am a man and I don't want to be in the roles that are now open to women. They are very dangerous, very stressful physically and mentally, and a very spartan lifestyle. Most Soldiers who start out in infantry and stay in long enough, end up switching to another specialty because their knees or back give out on them. If a women want to live that lifestyle I say more power to her.

[Stargazer]

Flying bullets don't care if you're in the infantry or food service.

This decision changes little. It makes it possible for women to have the same career possibilities as men. As a former infantryman, however, I can tell you that the troops will be very very leery of this whole thing.

Well, let's see what happens.

[The Nehor]

Women are way too valuable to be wasted in combat,

So are gays but we let them in anyways.