Lorenzo Snow On The Law Of Tithing (2013 Liahona)

[theplains]

According to the January 2013 Liahona article, "President Snow is well known for receiving a

revelation on the law of tithing. For members of the Church in 1899, this revelation began with

a bold declaration: “The time has now come for every Latter-day Saint, who calculates to be

prepared for the future and to hold his feet strong upon a proper foundation, to do the will of

the Lord and to pay his tithing in full. That is the word of the Lord to you.” (Teachings: Lorenzo

Snow, 157).

Why does Lorenzo Snow say "the time has now come" in 1899 when the revelation about tithing

was given in 1838 when it was substituted in place of the law of consecration (which was withdrawn

due to the failure of many to abide it - D&C 119)? Had they transgressed by failing to pay the

10%, was this just a re-enforcing statement, or were the two revelations about tithing different?

Thanks,

Jim

[ERayR]

According to the January 2013 Liahona article, "President Snow is well known for receiving a

revelation on the law of tithing. For members of the Church in 1899, this revelation began with

a bold declaration: “The time has now come for every Latter-day Saint, who calculates to be

prepared for the future and to hold his feet strong upon a proper foundation, to do the will of

the Lord and to pay his tithing in full. That is the word of the Lord to you.” (Teachings: Lorenzo

Snow, 157).

Why does Lorenzo Snow say "the time has now come" in 1899 when the revelation about tithing

was given in 1838 when it was substituted in place of the law of consecration (which was withdrawn

due to the failure of many to abide it - D&C 119)? Had they transgressed by failing to pay the

10%, was this just a re-enforcing statement, or were the two revelations about tithing different?

Thanks,

Jim

Because they had not been living it.

[Sky]

I believe that the Church was in a fair amount of debt at the time, and this was a means to overcome it.

I've also heard the story about how St. George, Utah was suffering from a severe drought around 1899, and Lorenzo Snow made a promise to the Saints that if they would pay their tithing, the rain would come. I can't find a source for this at the moment, but I thought it was pretty cool.

[ERayR]

I believe that the Church was in a fair amount of debt at the time, and this was a means to overcome it.

I've also heard the story about how St. George, Utah was suffering from a severe drought around 1899, and Lorenzo Snow made a promise to the Saints that if they would pay their tithing, the rain would come. I can't find a source for this at the moment, but I thought it was pretty cool.

Windows of Heaven film circa 1963.

[cinepro]

As Paul Harvey would say, here's the rest of the story*:

For the church as a whole, Brigham Young publicly estimated that Latter-day Saints had paid less than 10 percent of their 10 percent tithing obligations from 1847 to 1870.18 In other words, adult Mormons were contributing, on average, less than 1 percent of their net worth at conversion, less than 1 percent of their net worth upon arrival in Utah, and less than 1 percent of their annual income. However, pioneer definitions of tithing delinquency varied radically. In Cache Valley during the same period, local bishops concluded that 90 percent of people who could pay tithing were full-tithe payers. The difference in perspective was due to the fact that these Cache Valley bishops 'excused' a large portion of the population from tithing due to poverty. The church president's report made no such distinctions.19

After President Young's announcement of tithing delinquency, LDS general authorities gave sermons to remind church members that the law of tithing was 'one tenth of all we possess at the start, and then ever after one tenth . . .'20 Apostle Erastus Snow even reinvoked the 1838 revelation's original requirement to donate all surplus property at first.21 These sermons were futile efforts to reverse a nineteenth-century trend of financial non-compliance. Otherwise faithful Mormons withered before an overwhelming tithing obligation. Young told the October 1875 general conference that neither he nor anyone else 'had ever paid their tithing as it was revealed and understood by him in the Doctrine and Covenants.'22

John Taylor tried to increase church donations by liberalizing the law of tithing for the first time since 1841. On the fiftieth anniversary of the church's organization, he declared a biblical Jubilee Year in which he forgave half of the delinquent tithing and half of the debts owed to the Perpetual Emigrating Fund.23 After the Jubilee year of 1880 failed to bring in the unforgiven half of delinquent tithing, the church president offered a carrot-and-stick approach to tithing in 1881. On 8 January 1881 Taylor said he did not care whether Mormons paid the 'one-tenth of the property of the new comers' to Utah, as required by Brigham Young. However, the Presiding Bishopric's tithing clerk recorded that, on motion of the LDS president, the assembled priesthood holders voted unanimously to sustain the requirement of 'one tenth of the property on entering the Church, and one tenth of the increase afterward.'24 At this stake conference in January and again at general conference in April 1881, President Taylor instructed stake presidents that church members now 'must be tithe payers' in order to have recommends for temple ordinances.25

The early tithing requirements of Mormonism give added significance to the numbers of immigrants to Utah before 1881 and to the numbers of LDS converts prior to 1899. At a personal level, any Mormon who paid a full tithing by nineteenth-century definitions (like the man who gave $4 in 1845) was deserving of awe and veneration. Then in May 1899 Lorenzo Snow publicly announced a revelation which limited the law of tithing to one-tenth of annual income with no massive payment upon conversion. As an LDS church president, Snow is best known for his emphasis on observance of this new definition of tithing.26 This was the last LDS liberalization of the 1838 revelation on tithing. From then until the present, Mormons have been allowed to decide whether to pay tithing on their gross income or net income.27

Lorenzo Snow's announcement was undoubtedly the cause for a significant increase in the percentage of Mormons who paid at least some tithing (see Table). In 1890, 17.2 percent of LDS stake membership had paid some tithing, and the percentage hovered around 15 percent for seven years. In 1898 the percentage of stake members who paid some tithing was only 1 percent higher than in 1890. In 1899, the year of Lorenzo Snow's announcement, the number of tithe payers in the stakes jumped to 25.6 percent.28

http://lds-church-hi...ry-summary.html

*Note: In the 1800's, converts were asked to tithe 10% of their net worth upon conversion, as explained earlier in the article.

Edited January 20, 2013 by cinepro

[Tacenda]

I believe that the Church was in a fair amount of debt at the time, and this was a means to overcome it.

I've also heard the story about how St. George, Utah was suffering from a severe drought around 1899, and Lorenzo Snow made a promise to the Saints that if they would pay their tithing, the rain would come. I can't find a source for this at the moment, but I thought it was pretty cool.

About 3 yrs. ago, while on vacation, we took our kids with another family and toured the St. George Tabernacle, where the infamous sermon was spoken. Our families sat in the very chairs the leaders of the church sat in. It was during the height of my faith crisis and I was disillusioned with Masonry and the Temple. The All Seeing Eye was painted on the wall or on a plaque of some kind for all to see. I pointed at it and told my friend that it had something to do with Masonry, like it was some big secret. Boy, I'm glad those days are over.

ETA: I think I got BY mixed up with Lorenzo Snow. I'm not sure if the tithing sermon was given in the tabernacle or not.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Tacenda

[theplains]

As Paul Harvey would say, here's the rest of the story*:

Great info. Thanks.

Jim

[Sky]

Maybe we can stave off global warming/climate change/droughts by paying our tithing!!! Ha Ha! Or is this just totally outlandish thinking on my part? But if the Lord could send rain then, and presumably control the weather, why not now?

[volgadon]

Maybe we can stave off global warming/climate change/droughts by paying our tithing!!! Ha Ha! Or is this just totally outlandish thinking on my part? But if the Lord could send rain then, and presumably control the weather, why not now?

[ERayR]

Maybe we can stave off global warming/climate change/droughts by paying our tithing!!! Ha Ha! Or is this just totally outlandish thinking on my part? But if the Lord could send rain then, and presumably control the weather, why not now?

Its pretty easy to stave off something that isn't really happening.

[The Nehor]

Maybe we can stave off global warming/climate change/droughts by paying our tithing!!! Ha Ha! Or is this just totally outlandish thinking on my part? But if the Lord could send rain then, and presumably control the weather, why not now?

Perhaps, worth a try.

Its pretty easy to stave off something that isn't really happening.

The world is slowly heating up. Most of the debate is about whether it is a natural cycle (the opposite an ice age which we know can happen naturally) or something we are causing. I find that argument pointless because even if we do decide we are causing it we are unlikely to do anything about it. Whatever is causing it we do need to take steps to prepare for it.

[Scott Lloyd]

Windows of Heaven film circa 1963.

A very good movie that holds up very well. I think it might even be still available today in one of the DVD compilations offered through Church Distribution.

[Scott Lloyd]

About 3 yrs. ago, while on vacation, we took our kids with another family and toured the St. George Tabernacle, where the infamous sermon was spoken. Our families sat in the very chairs the leaders of the church sat in. It was during the height of my faith crisis and I was disillusioned with Masonry and the Temple. The All Seeing Eye was painted on the wall or on a plaque of some kind for all to see. I pointed at it and told my friend that it had something to do with Masonry, like it was some big secret. Boy, I'm glad those days are over.

ETA: I think I got BY mixed up with Lorenzo Snow. I'm not sure if the tithing sermon was given in the tabernacle or not.

Yes, it was given in the St. George Tabernacle. And the movie dramatization of that incident was filmed on location there, on the very spot where President Snow gave the sermon.

But why do you use the word "infamous" to apply to it? Are you aware that "infamous" has a negative connotation, as in "the infamous St. Valentine's Day massacre" or "the infamous attack on Pearl Harbor"?

Edited January 20, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Tacenda]

Yes, it was given in the St. George Tabernacle. And the movie dramatization of that incident was filmed on location there, on the very spot where President Snow gave the sermon.

But why do you use the word "infamous" to apply to it? Are you aware that "infamous" has a negative connotation, as in "the infamous St. Valentine's Day massacre" or "the infamous attack on Pearl Harbor"?

No, I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the correction. It's fun being edited by the infamous Scott Lloyd of the Deseret News! Oops, gotta remember "infamous" doesn't mean memorable, awesome etc. Edited January 20, 2013 by Tacenda

[Sleeper Cell]

But why do you use the word "infamous" to apply to it? Are you aware that "infamous" has a negative connotation, as in "the infamous St. Valentine's Day massacre" or "the infamous attack on Pearl Harbor"?

Unless you are a fan of “The Three Amigos.”

[Scott Lloyd]

Unless you are a fan of “The Three Amigos.”

I've been thinking of that movie too.

The Three Amigos are Hollywood stars in the silent-movie era. They receive a telegram from some naive villagers in Mexico who have seen one of their films and take them for real heroes, not just for actors. The people want to hire them to come give a "show of force" to stop the evil deeds of El Guapo, a villainous gang leader who is terrorizing the village.

But the telegram gets garbled, and the Amigos think they are being engaged to come stage a show with a local actor. The following dialogue ensues:

Lucky Day: Reading telegram: "Three Amigos, Hollywood, California. You are very great. 100,000 pesos. Come to Santa Poco put on show, stop. The In-famous El Guapo."

Dusty Bottoms: What does that mean, in-famous?

Ned Nederlander: Oh, Dusty. In-famous is when you're MORE than famous. This man El Guapo, he's not just famous, he's IN-famous.

Lucky Day: 100,000 pesos to perform with this El Guapo, who's probably the biggest actor to come out of Mexico!

Dusty Bottoms: Wow, in-famous? In-famous?

Edited January 20, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[cinepro]

A very good movie that holds up very well. I think it might even be still available today in one of the DVD compilations offered through Church Distribution.

The great thing about those old movies is that when you show them to the youth, they think they're seeing actual footage from back then. I've had a whole class of 12 year olds convinced they were seeing

.

[Duncan]

The great thing about those old movies is that when you show them to the youth, they think they're seeing actual footage from back then. I've had a whole class of 12 year olds convinced they were seeing

.

that's a laugh! I wonder whatever happened to Stewart Peterson who played Joseph Smith?

[Buzzard]

that's a laugh! I wonder whatever happened to Stewart Peterson who played Joseph Smith?

Dude makes me jealous. After his mission, took his movie money-he did a few family friendly secular movies as well-and opened a horse packing business in the Wind River mountains of Wyoming. Lucky dog. He did come back for a short stint as one of the apostles in one of the temple films. It's not an obvious resemblance, as he is older, but look close and it's apparent which one he is.

BTW, when I went to Dixie Junior College in the 70's, some of the extras who had played little kids in the Window of Heaven film were students there. Kind of unique to sit in a screening of a movie and have people pointing out which one was them, their brother, their dad, etc...

Edited January 21, 2013 by Buzzard

[Duncan]

Dude makes me jealous. After his mission, took his movie money-he did a few family friendly secular movies as well-and opened a horse packing business in the Wind River mountains of Wyoming. Lucky dog. He did come back for a short stint as one of the apostles in one of the temple films. It's not an obvious resemblance, as he is older, but look close and it's apparent which one he is.

BTW, when I went to Dixie Junior College in the 70's, some of the extras who had played little kids in the Window of Heaven film were students there. Kind of unique to sit in a screening of a movie and have people pointing out which one was them, their brother, their dad, etc...

i'll have to look now, but i suspect I know which one, short fellow. brown hair. I met one of the chief muck a mucks fellas in the movie and he told me a hilarious story about himself, should share sometime.lady in my ward her aunt is the farmer's wife in that movie!