inquiringmind Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Is salvation mean exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom?Are Terrestrials and Telastials saved?
pogi Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) Is salvation mean exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom?Are Terrestrials and Telastials saved?Any degree of glory is salvation, and all will be saved to a degree of glory but the sons of perdition. Exaltation and Eternal Life refer to salvation in the Celestial Kingdom. Edited December 11, 2012 by pogi
Nathair/|\ Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Salvation means to be placed beyond the power of all one's enemies. (TPJS, pp. 297, 301, 305).
pogi Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Here's a good link that gives at least 6 different meanings of the word salvation:http://www.lds.org/topics/salvation?lang=eng
cesc101 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Any degree of glory is salvation...and then cometh my favorite motto: Salvation without Exaltation, is Damnation!
The Nehor Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Salvation is putting your enemies (external and internal) under your feet. Full salvation or exaltation is conquest over all of them.
pogi Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) and then cometh my favorite motto: Salvation without Exaltation, is Damnation!Perhaps, but it is still salvation to glory through the atonement of Christ. One can be both saved in one sense and damned in another. Damnation without salvation is Hell or Outer Darkness. Edited December 11, 2012 by pogi
cesc101 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Damnation without salvation is Hell or Outer Darkness.Sons of Perdition
Robert F. Smith Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Is salvation mean exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom?Are Terrestrials and Telastials saved?Salvation includes the three degrees of glory, exaltation only the Celestial glory.Jesus is "Salvation, Savior." That is the meaning of his name in Hebrew, Yēšûˁa, while the verbal meaning is given at Matthew 1:21 "He-shall-save." Indeed, the Priest Simeon says at the official redemption of the baby Jesus as a first-born son, "For mine eyes have seen thy salvation" (Luke 2:30), which could as easily be read as "thy Jesus." This sort of word-play on Jesus' name is encountered in both the Book of Mormon and in the Bible.For example, this play on words also takes place in Luke 1:47, in which “God my Savior” is rendered by Jerome as Deo Jesu meo, “God my Jesus.”[1] Raymond Brown quoted Laurentin and commented as follows:“’In God my Savior’ is an allusion to the name of Jesus, transparent in the Hebrew substratum.” The assumption that there was a Hebrew form of the Magnificat is dubious; nevertheless there could have been a play on the Hebrew underlying “Jesus” independently of that. There is evidence that such a play was associated with the Magnificat early, e.g., Origen, Homilies on Luke 7:8 (SC 87.162): Maria magnificat Dominum Jesum.[2][1] R. Brown, Birth of the Messiah, 655, citing Mello and Reiterer.[2] R. Brown, Birth of the Messiah, 655 n. 210, citing Laurentin, Évangiles, 201. 2
BCSpace Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Is salvation mean exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom?Are Terrestrials and Telastials saved?It's all salvation. The question is to what degree will you be saved, hence the degrees of glory that you mentioned. It might even be said that one resurrected without glory (Outer Darkness/Second Death/ Hell) is saved since that person will never die. From early Christian history:"And some are connected with the Father, being part of Him, and next to these, those whom our argument now brings into clearer light, those who have come to the Saviour and take their stand entirely with him. And third are those of whom we spoke, who reckon the sun and the moon and the stars to be gods, and take their stand by them. And in the fourth and last place those who submit to soulless and dead idols."Origen, Commentary on John 2:3, in ANF 10:324-325But it is true that when LDS speak of salvation, it's usually in the context of the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom.
Freedom Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 the word 'salvation' is meaningless without context. It is like saying what does 'set' mean. We can have salvation from debt, illness, death, sin, damnation, and a host of other barriers. This is why the bible has so many scenarios for being saved. Jesus told a few people that their faith had saved them. I don't think this mean that they had their calling and election made sure. When ever I repent, I experience salvation. When ever I apologize I experience salvation. When ever I eat a meal I experience salvation. No single word in the English language has an absolute definition. Such a stance leads to heresies. Nobody has ever been able to tell me what it means to be saved by using the bible alone. 1
theplains Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Any degree of glory is salvation, and all will be saved to a degree of glory but the sons of perdition. Exaltation and Eternal Life refer to salvation in the Celestial Kingdom.The May 1998 Ensign article, Have You Been Saved? has a detailed description of this. To clarify, exaltation(eternal life) is reserved for those in the highest division of the Celestial Kingdom.Regards,Jim
treeface Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 "For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."In this context, does "eternal life" mean "exaltation" - that is, the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom?
Rob Osborn Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Salvation means to be saved from both physical and spiritual death. Everyone besides the sons of perdition receive salvation. The term "eternal life" is synonymous with "salvation". Everyone besides the sons of perdition receive eternal life. Breaking it down, eternal life is best defined by inserting "spiritual" in between the two words- eternal spiritual life. Thus, we either receive eternal spiritual life or eternal spiritual death. This is the correct way to interpret this most basic principle.Also, "damnation" always is used in the context of describing the state of the condemned who are either going to hell or are already in hell. Damnation/ damned is the opposite of salvation/ saved. No one can thus be saved and damned at the same time- that's a typical oxymoron. That is the same for salvation also, it being the same, no one can have salvation and damnation at the same time. The phrase " salvation without exaltation is damnation" is thus false and a completely unsupported phrase of scriptural definition, not to mention it is an oxymoron also. If one is "saved" it literally means he is saved from damnation.The word "exaltation" refers exclusively to the highest state of glory within the Celestial kingdom. It is not necessarily synonymous with " eternal life". Edited December 12, 2012 by Rob Osborn
treeface Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Salvation means to be saved from both physical and spiritual death. Everyone besides the sons of perdition receive salvation. The term "eternal life" is synonymous with "salvation". Everyone besides the sons of perdition receive eternal life. Breaking it down, eternal life is best defined by inserting "spiritual" in between the two words- eternal spiritual life. Thus, we either receive eternal spiritual life or eternal spiritual death. This is the correct way to interpret this most basic principle.Referring back to Moses 1:39, what then is the difference between "immortality" and "eternal life"? Also, "damnation" always is used in the context of describing the state of the condemned who are either going to hell or are already in hell. Damnation/ damned is the opposite of salvation/ saved. No one can thus be saved and damned at the same time- that's a typical oxymoron. That is the same for salvation also, it being the same, no one can have salvation and damnation at the same time. The phrase " salvation without exaltation is damnation" is thus false and a completely unsupported phrase of scriptural definition, not to mention it is an oxymoron also. If one is "saved" it literally means he is saved from damnation.So damnation = hell = sons of perdition? I was told recently in another thread that hell = spirit prison. In your view, was that incorrect?What then is the hell that those in the telestial kingdom are thrust down to?Thanks.
Robert F. Smith Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Referring back to Moses 1:39, what then is the difference between "immortality" and "eternal life"? Thanks.Probably no more than synonyms used in parallel, but possibly indicating both dynamic as well as static eternity, since that is a major tension in Mormon theology (being & becoming). 1
Rob Osborn Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Referring back to Moses 1:39, what then is the difference between "immortality" and "eternal life"? So damnation = hell = sons of perdition? I was told recently in another thread that hell = spirit prison. In your view, was that incorrect?What then is the hell that those in the telestial kingdom are thrust down to?Thanks.Immortality is resurrection to die no more. Eternal life is only experienced by the righteous who are saved. They are thus eternally alive spiritually to the things of righteousness (eternal life).Hell has two designations. Hell is either temporary or permanent. The temporary hell is spirit prison where the wicked and disobedient go when they depart life. This temporary damnation ends at resurrection when all are resurrected and brought into Gods presence to be judged. Those who remain unrepentant at this point or who are not forgiven, will be condemned into eternal damnation which is the permanent hell reserved for the sons of perdition.
treeface Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Immortality is resurrection to die no more. Eternal life is only experienced by the righteous who are saved. They are thus eternally alive spiritually to the things of righteousness (eternal life).Thanks for replying, but I'm still confused.Is there a group who are "resurrected to die no more", but not "saved", according to the definition of salvation you gave in post #14 above ("everyone besides the sons of perdition")?Probably no more than synonyms used in parallel, but possibly indicating both dynamic as well as static eternity, since that is a major tension in Mormon theology (being & becoming).Then, how would you define "immortality" and "eternal life"? I know it probably seems like the answer should be obvious to me, and it was this morning, but now it no longer is!Thanks. Edited December 12, 2012 by treeface
Rob Osborn Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Thanks for replying, but I'm still confused.Is there a group who are "resurrected to die no more", but not "saved", according to the definition of salvation you gave in post #14 above ("everyone besides the sons of perdition")?There is "only" two designations, or outcomes, for man according to scripture. He will either be resurrected into eternal life to dwell in the kingdom of heaven or he will be resurrected into eternal damnation to be cast out with the devil and his angels. All of those "saved" will inherit eternal life.
treeface Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) There is "only" two designations, or outcomes, for man according to scripture. He will either be resurrected into eternal life to dwell in the kingdom of heaven or he will be resurrected into eternal damnation to be cast out with the devil and his angels. All of those "saved" will inherit eternal life.So if I understand you correctly, the term "immortality" applies to those "resurrected into eternal damnation to be cast out with the devil and his angels" (as well as to anyone higher up). Is that correct? Is there any group lower than this group? And again if I understand you correctly, the term "eternal life" applies to everyone from the Telestial Kingdom on up. Is that correct? Edited December 12, 2012 by treeface
Nathair/|\ Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Sister Hinckley (who must be the prototype for the wonderful sisters on this board) on salvation.
Rob Osborn Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 So if I understand you correctly, the term "immortality" applies to those "resurrected into eternal damnation to be cast out with the devil and his angels", as well as to anyone higher up. Is that correct?And the term "eternal life" applies to everyone from the Telestial kingdom on up. Is that correct?Immortality applies to all beings, wicked or righteous, who are resurrected. Resurrection into an immortal body is a free gift given to all Gods children born into mortality.Eternal life is given to everyone "except" the sons of perdition.
treeface Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Immortality applies to all beings, wicked or righteous, who are resurrected. Resurrection into an immortal body is a free gift given to all Gods children born into mortality.Eternal life is given to everyone "except" the sons of perdition.Sorry, I went and edited my earlier post without realizing that you'd already replied to it.Thanks for your clarification. Okay, here is where we may have a problem. Let's take another look at Moses 1:39:"For this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."By the definitions we've agreed to here, the resurrection of damnation fulfills the requirement for "immortality", and the Telestial Kingdom fulfills the requirements for both "immortality" and "eternal life". Recall that the Telestial Kingdom is the kingdom of murderers, liars, adulterers, and so forth. Mediocrity, at best.So let's substitute that into Moses 1:39, and see how it sounds:"For behold, this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the mediocrity of man."Somehow, that just doesn't seem like a very glorious work. I kinda thought Christ would set a bit higher goal for Himself. Are you sure our definitions of "immortality" and "eternal life" are correct? Edited December 12, 2012 by treeface
Rob Osborn Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 Lets throw some logic in. God cant save the unrepentant. There wont be murderers, liars, adulterers, so forth, in heaven. All who are saved in the end are saved through Christ because of their repentance from all their sins.
treeface Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Lets throw some logic in. God cant save the unrepentant. There wont be murderers, liars, adulterers, so forth, in heaven. All who are saved in the end are saved through Christ because of their repentance from all their sins.I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with an interpretation of Moses 1:39 that sets the bar for Christ's work and his glory at the Telestial level. I believe He is aiming much higher than that. Edited December 12, 2012 by treeface
Recommended Posts