Mormonism And Corporate America

[Lamanite]

In many ways the Church reflects American corporate culture. From our dress, speech patterns, marketing strategies we look and act a lot like Wall Street. My observation is that modern Mormonism has taken more than a few pages from Corporate America in the last 50yrs.

But it has gone waaaaay too far when I have to sit through a lesson where we were encouraged to do a S.W.O.T. analysis of our spiritual lives, with the graphs and lists and everything put up on the board. Waaaay Too far!!!

Give me the gospel George Albert Smith Style!

[media=]

Big UP!

Edited November 29, 2012 by Lamanite

[thesometimesaint]

Lamanite:

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with doing a SWOT as long as the Holy Ghost is leading it. Even the Scriptures enjoin us to consider the cost.

[BCSpace]

In many ways the Church reflects American corporate culture.

Didn't you know that God is a Free Market Capitalist?

He requires investment (lay up treasures in heaven).

He expects a return on investment (parable of the talents, "make up my jewels", etc.).

Salvation is merit based (faith AND works).

He values private property and everyone's right to it (Law of Consecration)

And all that from a mostly ancient context. In other words, the source of this influence is not corporate America but rather, the source of America and it's blessings (such as the freedom and ability to incorporate) is from God.

But it has gone waaaaay too far when I have to sit through a lesson where we are encouraged to do a S.W.O.T. analysis of our spiritual lives. Waaaay Too far!!!

SWOT is only one of a myraid ways to make such an analysis. But I'd agree it doesn't quite fit in the Church context because the Church (and God) values principles and the results from that.

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with doing a SWOT as long as the Holy Ghost is leading it. Even the Scriptures enjoin us to consider the cost.

But I would agree with a spiritual SWOT.

Give me the gospel George Albert Smith Style!

I enjoy it. But it would be wrong to cling to any one particular prophet or apostle as if what the others say isn't any good especially when the Church validates their words officially by publishing them. That is akin to "itching ears" (hearing only what one wants to hear).

Edited November 29, 2012 by BCSpace

[Lamanite]

Lamanite:

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with doing a SWOT as long as the Holy Ghost is leading it. Even the Scriptures enjoin us to consider the cost.

Nothing is morally wrong with a spiritual SWOT analysis. But I can't take another lesson that is presented to me like I'm at an annual shareholders meeting. It's only a preference but I think the corporate culture within Mormonism has gone too far. Lets shed the business suits and preach the gospel like Heber J. Grant used to!

Big UP!

Lamanite

[thesometimesaint]

Lamanite:

George A. Smith wore the business suit of the time.

http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/testimonies-of-him/articles/we-testify-of-jesus-christ

http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/controllers/potcController.jsp?leader=16&topic=testimony

[Lamanite]

Didn't you know that God is a Free Market Capitalist?

Wonderful comments.

Lamanite

[Lamanite]

Lamanite:

George A. Smith wore the business suit of the time.

http://jesuschrist.l...of-jesus-christ

http://www.lds.org/c...topic=testimony

I kind of agree. Up until McKay us Mormons kind of had our own look and swagger. McKay lost the beard and donned a suit that was something akin to a white guys Zoot suit, but most of the time he wore a dark business suit. After McKay it has been corporate all the way. In what was an attempt to blend in with American cultural appearance back in the day, we have now begun to look a little weird when considered from a global perspective.

All of the previous statements are of course nothing but subjective opinion based on nothing more than personal observations.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[thesometimesaint]

Lamanite:

The suits I wear to church wouldn't be out of place in the boardroom, except I wear pastel colored shirts. I've always felt that if the best you have is blue jeans and tee shirts just make it's the best blue jeans and tee shirt you have.

[Saints Alive]

For anyone who finds occasion to visit other churches, dress style is quite eye opening. It's not uncommon to see shorts and blue jeans, but even those who "dress up" for church usually wear no better than slacks and a polo style shirt. In a way we are quite unique in the way we wear suits and ties.

[Duncan]

Didn't you know that God is a Free Market Capitalist?

He requires investment (lay up treasures in heaven).

He expects a return on investment (parable of the talents, "make up my jewels", etc.).

Salvation is merit based (faith AND works).

He values private property and everyone's right to it (Law of Consecration)

And all that from a mostly ancient context. In other words, the source of this influence is not corporate America but rather, the source of America and it's blessings (such as the freedom and ability to incorporate) is from God.

SWOT is only one of a myraid ways to make such an analysis. But I'd agree it doesn't quite fit in the Church context because the Church (and God) values principles and the results from that.

But I would agree with a spiritual SWOT.

I enjoy it. But it would be wrong to cling to any one particular prophet or apostle as if what the others say isn't any good especially when the Church validates their words officially by publishing them. That is akin to "itching ears" (hearing only what one wants to hear).

God sounds like Korihor then if he is a free market capitalist-everyone fairing according to the management of the creature (not necessarily the creator) God shouldn't be suprised then that like Korihor, if they have everything and have access to everything then they need nothing from God

Edited November 29, 2012 by Duncan

[pmccombs1]

I kind of agree. Up until McKay us Mormons kind of had our own look and swagger. McKay lost the beard and donned a suit that was something akin to a white guys Zoot suit, but most of the time he wore a dark business suit. After McKay it has been corporate all the way. In what was an attempt to blend in with American cultural appearance back in the day, we have now begun to look a little weird when considered from a global perspective.

All of the previous statements are of course nothing but subjective opinion based on nothing more than personal observations.

Big UP!

Lamanite

J. Michael Cleverly wrote a piece called "Mormonism on the Big Mac Standard" that would be interesting to discuss. I'm in Daymon Smith's camp when it comes to this issue, though. I hate to be reminded that my church is a megacorp.

[Nathair/|\]

I kind of agree. Up until McKay us Mormons kind of had our own look and swagger. McKay lost the beard and donned a suit that was something akin to a white guys Zoot suit, but most of the time he wore a dark business suit. After McKay it has been corporate all the way. In what was an attempt to blend in with American cultural appearance back in the day, we have now begun to look a little weird when considered from a global perspective.

All of the previous statements are of course nothing but subjective opinion based on nothing more than personal observations.

Big UP!

Lamanite

I usually wear a kilt to my Montana ward. My mom gets upset, but the people in my ward love it and she lives hundreds of miles and a mountain pass away.

[Nathair/|\]

Nothing is morally wrong with a spiritual SWOT analysis. But I can't take another lesson that is presented to me like I'm at an annual shareholders meeting. It's only a preference but I think the corporate culture within Mormonism has gone too far. Lets shed the business suits and preach the gospel like Heber J. Grant used to!

Big UP!

[media=]

Lamanite

If we're asking for a return to previous speaking styles, why don't we just go all the way to J. Golden Kimball?

[Lamanite]

I usually wear a kilt to my Montana ward.

I seem to recall a GA giving a talk that said you shouldn't wear anything (cultural dress?) that would distract from the spirit of the meeting and/or sacrament. I don't know. Maybe someone remembers what I'm talking about.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Lamanite]

Mormonism on the Big Mac standard. Dialogue article.

I'll read and comment in a bit. Thanks for the reference

Big UP!

Lamanite

[The Nehor]

Didn't you know that God is a Free Market Capitalist?

He requires investment (lay up treasures in heaven).

He expects a return on investment (parable of the talents, "make up my jewels", etc.).

Salvation is merit based (faith AND works).

He values private property and everyone's right to it (Law of Consecration)

And all that from a mostly ancient context. In other words, the source of this influence is not corporate America but rather, the source of America and it's blessings (such as the freedom and ability to incorporate) is from God.

SWOT is only one of a myraid ways to make such an analysis. But I'd agree it doesn't quite fit in the Church context because the Church (and God) values principles and the results from that.

But I would agree with a spiritual SWOT.

I enjoy it. But it would be wrong to cling to any one particular prophet or apostle as if what the others say isn't any good especially when the Church validates their words officially by publishing them. That is akin to "itching ears" (hearing only what one wants to hear).

God is not a free market capitalist. If he was maximizing his investments and time and effort spent versus payoff he would have laid waste to the earth a long time ago as a bad investment and written the creation off as a bad sunk cost.

He requires a non-financial investment.

He does not expect a return on investment. King Benjamin made it quite clear that even if we did everything we should we would still be unprofitable.

Salvation is not merit based as no one merits it.

God's respect for private property is nonexistent. He passes lands from person to person without the owner's consent. He commands people to give their goods to Himself and others. I see nothing suggesting he will recompense those who will not get an inheritance in celestial glory for cutting them off from their real estate. Furthermore in scripture God claims the Earth and every animal, mineral, and vegetable on it, as his own and shows no respect for me holding the deed to property. Brigham Young stated repeatedly that everything he had belonged to God and He could claim it at any time with or without permission.

[MiserereNobis]

Didn't you know that God is a Free Market Capitalist?

He's a republican, too, right?

[Duncan]

Lamanite:

The suits I wear to church wouldn't be out of place in the boardroom, except I wear pastel colored shirts. I've always felt that if the best you have is blue jeans and tee shirts just make it's the best blue jeans and tee shirt you have.

You wear a suit AND pastel color shirts to Church? Don't you have any self respect?!

[thesometimesaint]

Actually it looks pretty nice. But self respect? Not a bit. I am but the lowest of lowly servants whom is utterly dependent on my Lord and Savior.

[The Nehor]

I wear a chainmail tie to church every so often.

[Nathair/|\]

I wear a chainmail tie to church every so often.

I want a pic of that.

[Hamba Tuhan]

But I can't take another lesson that is presented to me like I'm at an annual shareholders meeting. It's only a preference but I think the corporate culture within Mormonism has gone too far. Lets shed the business suits and preach the gospel like Heber J. Grant used to!

I haven't really experienced many (any?) such lessons, but I can certainly share your disdain vicariously. At the same time, I've now listened to the clips from GAS and HJG, and I'm unsure what contrast exactly you're trying to draw. Their testimonies sound just like mine and like those I regularly hear at church. Maybe I'm missing something subtle?

I seem to recall a GA giving a talk that said you shouldn't wear anything (cultural dress?) that would distract from the spirit of the meeting and/or sacrament. I don't know. Maybe someone remembers what I'm talking about.

The handbook states that those who bless and pass the sacrament should avoid dress which calls attention to itself and/or distracts members' attention away from the ordinance. (I can't get the exact quote since I've been informed that the Church website is currently down for maintenance, but that's a pretty good paraphrase.) In our ward, that's easy for our Aaronic Priesthood holders. We have men who wear suits and men who wear skirts and thongs. We have women who wear dresses and women who wear pants. Pink hair or showing up in speedos would probably do it, though...

[Duncan]

Actually it looks pretty nice. But self respect? Not a bit. I am but the lowest of lowly servants whom is utterly dependent on my Lord and Savior.

me too! he even wears white you know!

Edited November 30, 2012 by Duncan

[Hamba Tuhan]

Silly question: Aren't you the person who regularly suggests on this forum that we should all stop saying we 'know' things in our testimonies, and yet you endorse it when Pres Grant said, 'I know beyond a shadow of doubt of the divinity of this work ... I know as well as I know that I live that God lives ... To know that this is true, this gospel of Jesus Christ -- why, it's worth everything else in the wide, wide world'?

[Hamba Tuhan]

Website's back up. Here's the exact quote: 'Those who bless and pass the sacrament should dress modestly and be well groomed and clean. Clothing or jewelry should not call attention to itself or distract members during the sacrament'.