The Evangelization Of The Islamic World

[Hamba Tuhan]

The silver lining is that if you make errors, you must be alive...

I can vouch for this principle!

[canard78]

I was thinking more of the middle east, otherwise I would need to include half of Spain. Within 50 years all of Europe will be muslim...as far as the danger part this is a world that requires death if one converts. I know it is not PC to be blunt, but I am not being critical of Muslims, I am speaking of the tinderbox that is now the Middleast, we are not allowed to serve or ever speak about our faith in Israel...or China for the most part. In contries like Japan converting can mean discrimination in the workplace and socially. Living in America sometimes makes us think everyone is like us...even in England, Mormons are disliked in some circles for past mistakes. The MMM is still used as a means of labeling us as murderers. I hope this helps clear up what I mean...don't know how to explain any better.

Sorry but I'm going to have to CFR most of this. Europe 'all Muslim in 50 years?' Mormons in UK have a pretty good reputation and most (including the LDS) have never heard of MMM. This article recently appeared on BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20327593

I live in China and talk about my faith, I just can't proseletise. There are also Chinese nationals in branches (but they have to get baptised in Hong Kong, so you're right that there are limitations). On the subject of Muslims, there are Mosques in China (I saw one in Shanghai the other day). Islam is officially recognised by the Chinese government (China Islamic Association was set up by the government in 2001)

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

In addition, remember that I personally know dozens of formerly Muslim Latter-day Saints who have converted without any undue opposition. When I was living in America, I became close friends with a family who were Islamic fundamentalists who had fled Indonesia to Malaysia and then later been taken in by the US as political refugees. (They had been involved in an Islamic separatist movement.) They've never converted, but, when their son was born, they asked me a few other LDS friends to give him a blessing and name him, which we did with the local bishop's authorisation. In many places of the world, Muslims rightfully see us LDS as their friends and defenders, and I'm grateful for those bridges. Let's please not burn them.

So your goal is to show me how many times I am wrong...these are the exception and not the rule. Any other errors of mine...I seem to be a focal point as of late.

[Hamba Tuhan]

So your goal is to show me how many times I am wrong...these are the exception and not the rule. Any other errors of mine...I seem to be a focal point as of late.

No, my brother in Christ, my goal (at which I seem to have failed miserably) was to give you hope based on a clearer picture of reality. I know doom and gloom concerning Islam is common in certain quarters, but please note that we're not hearing it from the living prophets. Instead, the Church as a whole continues to build bridges with our Muslim brothers and sisters whenever and wherever we can. As my Muslim friends have often pointed out to me in surprise, we have much, much in common. As Latter-day Day Saints, we have no requirement to place ourselves in opposition to people of other faiths. And so we shouldn't be surprised that missionary work has proceeded in the past in the very heart of the Islamic world, that it is now proceeding in various places and via various avenues,* and that we have hope that it will quicken and intensify in future.

*I dated a girl in America who had served her mission in Spain, where all of her success came with Muslim migrants. I've heard others who've served in Europe discuss this phenomenon. In some cases, the Muslims who are 'infiltrating' Europe have been brought there to find the truth.

[Stargazer]

*I dated a girl in America who had served her mission in Spain, where all of her success came with Muslim migrants. I've heard others who've served in Europe discuss this phenomenon. In some cases, the Muslims who are 'infiltrating' Europe have been brought there to find the truth.

Now, that is a hopeful thought!

By the way, can you please tell me which country you live in? I am very curious, sorry for the personal question.

[canard78]

If anyone would like to remind themselves of why we LDS and Muslims can quickly find common ground, take a look at this:

http://www.islam101.com/sociology/spiritualPath.htm

I find it refreshing and prefer to read their own version of what they believe rather than the utter bile our media prefers to project about them.

Edited November 19, 2012 by canard78

[volgadon]

If anyone would like to remind themselves of why we LDS and Muslims can quickly find common ground, take a look at this:

http://www.islam101....iritualPath.htm

I find it refreshing and prefer to read their own version of what they believe than the utter bile our media prefers to project about them.

One of my favourite sendups of investigative journalism.

[Buzzard]

My daughter just returned from a mission to Texas in the good old USA. A set of sisters (not her) were teaching a young married Muslim couple. When their families found out, they were vociferously opposed, to the point of making threats-including threats against the sisters. They contacted the Mission President, who instructed them to stop teaching the couple, and transferred them both out of the city the next week.

So at least among some factions of Islam, the death penalty for apostasy is alive and well, and apparently not limited to places like Iran and Pakistan.

[harfad]

My daughter just returned from a mission to Texas in the good old USA. A set of sisters (not her) were teaching a young married Muslim couple. When their families found out, they were vociferously opposed, to the point of making threats-including threats against the sisters. They contacted the Mission President, who instructed them to stop teaching the couple, and transferred them both out of the city the next week.

That kind of reaction is not peculiar to Islam. There are Muslims who couldn't care less if a relative or family member renounced Islam and converted to another religion. There are some Jews and Christians who would rather see a family member dead than become a Mormon.

[Calm]

There are some Jews and Christians who would rather see a family member dead than become a Mormon.

Unfortunately true. One of my inlaws was told by her Baptist father that he had rather she had been raped than baptized (and later married in the temple) by her young man. They fear their child is going to hell and that doesn't bring out the warm fuzzies.

[canard78]

That kind of reaction is not peculiar to Islam. There are Muslims who couldn't care less if a relative or family member renounced Islam and converted to another religion. There are some Jews and Christians who would rather see a family member dead than become a Mormon.

One of the gripes from the former stake president (the one who had is second annoiting and is now exchanging emails with Elder Holland) is that his (still active) wife said to him that she wished he'd died before he lost his faith rather than cause the hurt he has.

I don't put it on the same scale, but it still shows the perspective of someone who believes the implications of eternity are of more significance than the length of (or early termination of) our mortal probation.

[inquiringmind]

Thank you all for your comments.

[Calm]

I don't put it on the same scale, but it still shows the perspective of someone who believes the implications of eternity are of more significance than the length of (or early termination of) our mortal probation.

I can understand the perspective to a certain degree, but I think it relies too much on fear and not enough on trusting that God has prepared sufficiently for us to learn what we need to learn to make wise decisions. If we are looking toward eternity, we shouldn't be basing our reactions so much on what is going on in the here and now as to what can happen eternally speaking when we appeal to the Atonement.

[canard78]

One of my favourite sendups of investigative journalism.

Makes me proud to be British

[Hamba Tuhan]

By the way, can you please tell me which country you live in? I am very curious, sorry for the personal question.

Sorry but no. I've written far too many deeply personal things about myself and my ward members, and some countries have very small LDS populations.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

My daughter just returned from a mission to Texas in the good old USA. A set of sisters (not her) were teaching a young married Muslim couple. When their families found out, they were vociferously opposed, to the point of making threats-including threats against the sisters. They contacted the Mission President, who instructed them to stop teaching the couple, and transferred them both out of the city the next week.

I don't know how to express this in a way that doesn't pose some risk of giving offence, but I've heard secondhand stories like this on many occasions, and I've yet to be able to verify one despite having tried multiple times. I've had returned missionaries swear to me that the Church has a policy against teaching Muslims for this very reason. Then I point out to them that missionaries in my mission worked with Muslims regularly and that missionaries in Indonesia do it all the time. The Church clearly has no such policy, and I find these kinds of stories equally suspect.

[Flyonthewall]

The church does obey the law of the land. So if the law of the land says no prosyletizing, then they do not prosyletize...whether the country is Muslim, or Jewish, or Christian or otherwise.

[theplains]

Why would they exclude certain chapters for Muslims to read about?

I was wondering if that particular chapter would be an obstacle to evangelism because Muslims believe in the

existence of only one God and that's its blasphemy to believe one can become a God.

Thanks,

Jim

[volgadon]

I don't know how to express this in a way that doesn't pose some risk of giving offence, but I've heard secondhand stories like this on many occasions, and I've yet to be able to verify one despite having tried multiple times. I've had returned missionaries swear to me that the Church has a policy against teaching Muslims for this very reason. Then I point out to them that missionaries in my mission worked with Muslims regularly and that missionaries in Indonesia do it all the time. The Church clearly has no such policy, and I find these kinds of stories equally suspect.

The church actually does have a policy. I know from personal experience. My companion and I had a Muslim investigator who wished to be baptised. Our mission president informed us that the policy is for all such baptisms to be cleared with church headquarters (I don't remeber at exactly what level), depending on the level of risk to the convert, members, and missionaries. Our investigator was the apple of her father's eye, an only child to boot, so she was in no physical danger. The mission president did have to meet with her aside from the baptismal interview questions. The issue appeared again when another investigator from a Middle-Eastern country I won't name, wished to be baptised. We had to explain that he wasn't actually Muslim.

Indonesia is, in many ways, an exception.

[volgadon]

I was wondering if that particular chapter would be an obstacle to evangelism because Muslims believe in the

existence of only one God and that's its blasphemy to believe one can become a God.

Thanks,

Jim

Do evangelical missionaries leave out much of the New Testament?

[Hamba Tuhan]

Indonesia is, in many ways, an exception.

Not just Indonesia. I've known Muslim investigators/converts in two different American states as well. Nothing you've described matches my experiences there, either.

[theplains]

Do evangelical missionaries leave out much of the New Testament?

To my knowledge, no.

Regards,

Jim

[volgadon]

To my knowledge, no.

Regards,

Jim

Why not? Muslims regard the idea of God having a son blasphemous.

[theplains]

Muslims regard the idea of God having a son blasphemous.

The writer of the Quran thought the sonship meant that God had a son with a wife as men and women

procreate in a natural way. The writer also believed Christians worshipped Mary as a god next to Jesus

(sura 5:115 - "And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and

my mother for two gods beside Allah?")

Ask a Muslim if he believes he has a Heavenly Mother and note his reaction.

Regards,

Jim

[volgadon]

The writer of the Quran thought the sonship meant that God had a son with a wife as men and women

procreate in a natural way. The writer also believed Christians worshipped Mary as a god next to Jesus

(sura 5:115 - "And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and

my mother for two gods beside Allah?")

Ask a Muslim if he believes he has a Heavenly Mother and note his reaction.

Regards,

Jim

A similar reaction to what he'd have to hearing that God has a son, or also any theories of the Trinity. I've got nothing against your belief, I just find your gotcha question rather silly considering that any Christian attempt to evangelise Muslims will involve teachings Muslims find objectionable or blasphemous.