Saints Alive Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 What are your thoughts on the recent passing of Gay Marriage that swept the ballot in every state it was up for a vote. Will the church become more active in fighting gay marriage once again or is it a closed issue. Do you think the church will reach out more to gay groups pushing for less discrimination practices amongst employers, housing etc? Or will the church focus more on its own members and let the politics follow its own course. Thoughts? I doubt the church will change its position on marrige but unless they are forced to recognize same sex marriages I don't think the church will make much fuss over it.
california boy Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I doubt the church will change its position on marriage but unless they are forced to recognize same sex marriages I don't think the church will make much fuss over it.I doubt very much that the church will be forced to recognize same sex marriage since it has never had to recognize any marriage that it did not want to in the history of this country. The constitution seems pretty clear on this issue. I would be the first one to fight for the churches right to not recognize same sex marriage if that is their wish.Do you think the church is through with meddling in politics on this issue?
Saints Alive Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 Do you think the church is through with meddling in politics on this issue?I don't think they "meddled" to begin with. The church will always speak out on moral issues. If there was a clear vote that the chuch had a chance to influence, regarding a moral issue, I am sure the church would act again.
TAO Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Nah, it'll still intereve sometimes. It'll intervene whenever it thinks there is a serious threat to our lifestyle. Edited November 7, 2012 by TAO
Daniel2 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Nah, it'll still intereve sometimes. It'll intervene whenever it thinks there is a serious threat to our lifestyle.It's my hope and prayer, TAO, that both the LGBT and the LDS "communities" will move forward and work together to continue building a nation that preserves and protects both the religious freedoms and civil rights and liberties for each other, "doing unto others as we would have done unto ourselves."Daniel2 Edited November 7, 2012 by Daniel2 3
TAO Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 It's my hope and prayer, TAO, that both the LGBT and the LDS "communities" will move forward and work together to continue building a nation that preserves and protects both the religious freedoms and civil rights and liberties for each other, "doing unto others as we would have done unto ourselves."Daniel2I hope that too. But I doubt it will happen, with the partisan nature of things these days =/.
Calm Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I think the Church will continue to try to influence the language of the related laws in order to provide as much protection of the institution of the (LDS view of) family as possible.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 It's my hope and prayer, TAO, that both the LGBT and the LDS "communities" will move forward and work together to continue building a nation that preserves and protects both the religious freedoms and civil rights and liberties for each other, "doing unto others as we would have done unto ourselves."Daniel2The Church Cannot change it's position on behavior. There is much they can do to move toward understanding, but not thing they can to reconize gay marriage or perform them.
USU78 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I doubt very much that the church will be forced to recognize same sex marriage since it has never had to recognize any marriage that it did not want to in the history of this country. The constitution seems pretty clear on this issue. I would be the first one to fight for the churches right to not recognize same sex marriage if that is their wish.Do you think the church is through with meddling in politics on this issue?"Meddling in politics." Nice.Shall we also say homophile advocates and advocacy groups should stop meddling in politics?Watch out for your own ox there . . . your co-religionists have been goring ours and the boy scouts' for decades now.
USU78 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 It's my hope and prayer, TAO, that both the LGBT and the LDS "communities" will move forward and work together to continue building a nation that preserves and protects both the religious freedoms and civil rights and liberties for each other, "doing unto others as we would have done unto ourselves."Daniel2So long as homophile advocates and advocacy groups enthrone self indulgence at the expense of every other consideration, including but not limited to the mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, and economic health of human organisms, I don't see where the common ground is upon which to base such an infinitisimal hope.
RobertAC Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 It's my hope and prayer, TAO, that both the LGBT and the LDS "communities" will move forward and work together to continue building a nation that preserves and protects both the religious freedoms and civil rights and liberties for each other, "doing unto others as we would have done unto ourselves."Daniel2I think there is some common ground for needed growth and discussion. GLBTs and Mormons have been discriminated against for large swathes of their history. I think that can and should be acknowledged. Some GLBT Mormons are in heterosexual relationships or are celibate and those decisions should be respected. It would be great if GLBT Mormons and their opposite sex spouses could go to a Gay Community Center and receive counseling that meets their needs while also accepting their decision to live together as husband and wife. 1
Saints Alive Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 Unfortunately I doubt a GBLT center would be supportive to any degree of a gay person in a straight relationship. It would almost be like a black person painting themselves white in order to live like a white person.
Calm Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 It would almost be like a black person painting themselves white in order to live like a white person.Is this your view or what you think those at the GBLT centre would feel?
Saints Alive Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 Is this your view or what you think those at the GBLT centre would feel? , from the GBLT people I have talked to, it would be a slap in the face of what they fight for. There whole existence is based on homosexuality being a legitimate alternative lifestyle. Choosing an opposite sex partner dispite ssa is anathema to who they are.
Buckeye Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Unfortunately I doubt a GBLT center would be supportive to any degree of a gay person in a straight relationship. It would almost be like a black person painting themselves white in order to live like a white person.Ha! You can't be serious. What exactly does it mean to "live like a white person"? Shop at the GAP?Eat at Bob Evans?Go to a rodeo?Fall in love with Greek Yogurt ("its so creamy")You get the picture. For 99% of possible activities, blacks already "live like whites" and gays already "live like straights".
Saints Alive Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 Ha! You can't be serious. What exactly does it mean to "live like a white person"? Shop at the GAP?Eat at Bob Evans?Go to a rodeo?Fall in love with Greek Yogurt ("its so creamy")You get the picture. For 99% of possible activities, blacks already "live like whites" and gays already "live like straights". sexual attraction is (in their view) as fundamental and inborn as skin color. There may be less and less cultural differences between races but how many blacks would think it acceptable to alter their skin color to appear white? The GBLT community(some of them) has the same view of ssa people on straight marriages.
RobertAC Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 sexual attraction is (in their view) as fundamental and inborn as skin color. There may be less and less cultural differences between races but how many blacks would think it acceptable to alter their skin color to appear white? The GBLT community(some of them) has the same view of ssa people on straight marriages.True, but dialogues and discussion offer hope for change. A person is gay/bisexual/same sex attracted regardless as to whether they believe that they are members of a larger GLBT community, or if they are in a heterosexual relationship. Gay rights has reached a different level of social and political clout. Laws and issues that were critical, are not so prominent now. AIDS is all but a chronic condition. Gay bashing is not as big a problem as it used to be. Job terminations based upon orientation or gender-identity are being met by legislation. To use a youtube theme -- it's gotten better.Perhaps now is a good time to discuss more challenging issues. Such as GLBT people in straight relationships who want to be there, but who may also want to have the support and fellowship of people in the same situation.
Calm Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 , from the GBLT people I have talked to, it would be a slap in the face of what they fight for. There whole existence is based on homosexuality being a legitimate alternative lifestyle. Choosing an opposite sex partner dispite ssa is anathema to who they are.Why not just class them as bisexual?
Saints Alive Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 Why not just class them as bisexual? the one example I know of self identifies as strictly gay. He states that he has no sexual attraction for women.
Calm Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) the one example I know of self identifies as strictly gay. He states that he has no sexual attraction for women.But there are cases with those who identify themseves as gay claiming they are attracted to their wives, the allegedly instinctual sexual attraction is same sex, but the learned response is heterosexual. In those cases, why not define as bisexual rather than viewing them as "anathema" and insisting the men are lying to themselves. Edited November 7, 2012 by calmoriah
Saints Alive Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 As I said, the problem is how they view themselves.
Ahab Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 As I said, the problem is how they view themselves.A similar comparison would be to think of a man who is naturally attracted to women and some man or men who he is also attracted to. A person who is attracted to someone of the same sex won't necessarily act on that impulse. Heck, I think Tom Selek is an attractive guy, but I don't think of myself as a homosexual, or a bisexual. I just can admit that some men are attractive, even to me.
california boy Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 A similar comparison would be to think of a man who is naturally attracted to women and some man or men who he is also attracted to. A person who is attracted to someone of the same sex won't necessarily act on that impulse. Heck, I think Tom Selek is an attractive guy, but I don't think of myself as a homosexual, or a bisexual. I just can admit that some men are attractive, even to me.Quite honestly I think you have no idea what you are talking about. By your remarks you are showing that you have no idea what it is like to be gay. You are trying to fit gay people into your reality or how you want to see them. Someone who is homosexual is not bisexual. They have no emotional attraction to women. To use your Tom Selek analogy, a gay man may find Jennifer Lopez attractive. That does not mean that they are straight or bisexual or want to have any sexual or emotional relationship with her. It doesn't work that way for straight people and it doesn't work that way for gay people. Is that too hard to understand?Yes there are a few gay men who choose to be with a woman and find it the best way for them to deal with their homosexuality. But those examples are few and far between. And their stories are still being played out. No one knows how those relationships will end. A gay man marrying a woman RARELY works out. The church realizes how unlikely the success of this kind of relationship is and counsels that marriage is not therapy. I personally find it both immoral and selfish for a gay man to use another human for such an experiment. I know, because I did such an experiment myself. It was wrong.As a father of girls, there is no way I would want my daughters to marry a gay man. I would do all I could to convince them that idea is bad. I know. I once made that same decision myself. It was absolutely the morally wrong thing to do. My wife did not deserve being married to a gay man. It was completely unfair to her. And it is a decision I have always regretted because of how it impacted her life. At the time, I though that if I marry a woman, then God will take this burden from me and I can learn to be straight. He does neither. I guess I was one of those gay men that bought into your erroneous way of thinking. You should really strongly reconsider your idea on this subject.
Bikeemikey Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 I doubt very much that the church will be forced to recognize same sex marriage since it has never had to recognize any marriage that it did not want to in the history of this country. The constitution seems pretty clear on this issue. I would be the first one to fight for the churches right to not recognize same sex marriage if that is their wish.Do you think the church is through with meddling in politics on this issue?Our church has been forced by the govt on marriage in the past.He whole polygamy debate with the US govt was about the churches role to define marry marriage. Our church has been on the kissing end of this religious freedom one before.
Bikeemikey Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Quite honestly I think you have no idea what you are talking about. By your remarks you are showing that you have no idea what it is like to be gay. You are trying to fit gay people into your reality or how you want to see them. Someone who is homosexual is not bisexual. They have no emotional attraction to women. To use your Tom Selek analogy, a gay man may find Jennifer Lopez attractive. That does not mean that they are straight or bisexual or want to have any sexual or emotional relationship with her. It doesn't work that way for straight people and it doesn't work that way for gay people. Is that too hard to understand?Yes there are a few gay men who choose to be with a woman and find it the best way for them to deal with their homosexuality. But those examples are few and far between. And their stories are still being played out. No one knows how those relationships will end. A gay man marrying a woman RARELY works out. The church realizes how unlikely the success of this kind of relationship is and counsels that marriage is not therapy. I personally find it both immoral and selfish for a gay man to use another human for such an experiment. I know, because I did such an experiment myself. It was wrong.As a father of girls, there is no way I would want my daughters to marry a gay man. I would do all I could to convince them that idea is bad. I know. I once made that same decision myself. It was absolutely the morally wrong thing to do. My wife did not deserve being married to a gay man. It was completely unfair to her. And it is a decision I have always regretted because of how it impacted her life. At the time, I though that if I marry a woman, then God will take this burden from me and I can learn to be straight. He does neither. I guess I was one of those gay men that bought into your erroneous way of thinking. You should really strongly reconsider your idea on this subject.It's wrong only if both parties are not fully aware of what is happening.
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