A More Investigative Faith - In'S And Out'S Of Testimony

[DBMormon]

http://geoffsn.blogspot.com/2012/08/russell-hancock-on-testimony-and-church.html

This was shared in another thread

your thoughts

Mine - I felt like awesome, hopefully many more us us can move this direction in terms of understanding

[MiserereNobis]

That was a very interesting read. I'll tell you from the outside perspective that too often the "I know the church is true" testimony seems a bit too pat. I appreciate this man's candor in that area.

Of course, I suppose I could say that if you want to find out if the Catholic Church is Christ's Church, then you live it for your whole life and then you'd know

[DBMormon]

By the way, I have a Moroni 10:3-5 testimony, and I still have my dark nights.

So faith Crisis is not limited to a certain kind of testimony

Edited September 13, 2012 by DBMormon

[KevinG]

This is sound doctrine.

Doctrine and Covenants 46:13 To some it is given by the ^aHoly Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world.

14 To others it is given to ^abelieve on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.

[KevinG]

That was a very interesting read. I'll tell you from the outside perspective that too often the "I know the church is true" testimony seems a bit too pat. I appreciate this man's candor in that area.

Of course, I suppose I could say that if you want to find out if the Catholic Church is Christ's Church, then you live it for your whole life and then you'd know

Words are often not sufficient to describe the power and influence of the Holy Ghost, or a witness of the truth it teaches. As a good Catholic and a man of faith I'm sure you understand that paradox.

[The Nehor]

Now I feel guilty. I can have the Holy Ghost hit me almost it seems like on command. I just hope that does not mean I am judged to a different standard.

Because I am not very good at the whole living the gospel thing.

[DBMormon]

Nehor, we each are different and given gifts based on our needs to grow and progress.

[MiserereNobis]

Words are often not sufficient to describe the power and influence of the Holy Ghost, or a witness of the truth it teaches. As a good Catholic and a man of faith I'm sure you understand that paradox.

Absolutely. The power, influence, and experience of God is mostly ineffable.

Like I said, I found the piece very refreshing. I hope that stake is happy with its new stake presidency.

[Senator]

BRAVO!!!

Excellent article!

[cesc101]

I love the man's observations, especially, his objection number 2 in that link.

BTW;

Nehor, we each are different and given gifts based on our needs to grow and progress.

Yea... I can relate, i investigated the church for 3years, served a mission after joining the church, married in the temple, and yet sometimes i come across things that makes wonder if i am really converted...

Hence the more reason why am kinda adicted to this board, FARMS/NAMI, FAIR, etc, i think i have the gift of believing others' testimony, and it's greatly strengthening mine.

[DBMormon]

Having read the article of course, I can't help but wish every Latter Day Saint and specifically Leaders within the church were as open with their own convictions along with being open to the faith of others and permitting it to be all along the spectrum while still allowing these members to feel welcome.

[cesc101]

Having read the article of course, I can't help but wish every Latter Day Saint and specifically Leaders within the church were as open with their own convictions along with being open to the faith of others and permitting it to be all along the spectrum while still allowing these members to feel welcome.

I had that same thought too after reading through, but I want to believe most talks in the church are patterned to encourage member seeking a spiritual confirmation of reveal truth...

[DBMormon]

I had that same thought too after reading through, but I want to believe most talks in the church are patterned to encourage member seeking a spiritual confirmation of reveal truth...

But at their heart are members as accepting of those on a different spectrum of faith and unbelief then them. This great man is. HE welcomes all who question.

[Nevo]

As much as I dislike new agey talk of "faith journeys" and such, this was actually pretty good. The Dostoevsky quote was a particularly nice touch. Hancock seems like an impressive guy. Apparently he has a Ph.D from Stanford in Political Science and is concert pianist on the side (link).

[zerinus]

That was a very interesting read. I'll tell you from the outside perspective that too often the "I know the church is true" testimony seems a bit too pat. I appreciate this man's candor in that area.

Of course, I suppose I could say that if you want to find out if the Catholic Church is Christ's Church, then you live it for your whole life and then you'd know

Don't you think that by then it might be a bit too late to do something about it if it wasn't!

[cesc101]

But at their heart are members as accepting of those on a different spectrum of faith and unbelief then them.

Mormonism as a culture has evolved, and will continue untill there's room for all, thats why I love the church

[Glenn101]

That talk pretty much defines my life. My parents were converts to the church, but I was almost eight years old before I actually set foot into an LDS chapel due to the fact that we normally did not have a car that would get us there. So we attended whatever local church we could walk to.

When we did start attending the nearest LDS branch, I immediately felt something different. I knew it was true. I did not know anything about it, nor could I understand the concepts that the speakers were explaining to us, but I felt the spirit whisper to me that what they were saying was true. I even saw a halo about the head of one elderly speaker during a sacrament service.

Yet, there is no one defining moment that I can point to as my conversion experience. Suffice it to say that in my own process, which includes about a five year period where I was completely out of the church, I have obtained a testimony that has me to the point that I cannot fathom the church not being true.

Glenn

[pmccombs1]

That was a very interesting read. I'll tell you from the outside perspective that too often the "I know the church is true" testimony seems a bit too pat. I appreciate this man's candor in that area.

Of course, I suppose I could say that if you want to find out if the Catholic Church is Christ's Church, then you live it for your whole life and then you'd know

And that is my big predicament. I know Catholics who have a witness of the Holy Spirit that their Church is the only true church on the earth. Their belief is of a quality equal to any devout Mormon, at least I believe it to be so. How is it that the Holy Ghost confirms the Catholic as well as the Mormon (and those of many other persuasions besides)?

[Storm Rider]

That was a very interesting read. I'll tell you from the outside perspective that too often the "I know the church is true" testimony seems a bit too pat. I appreciate this man's candor in that area.

Of course, I suppose I could say that if you want to find out if the Catholic Church is Christ's Church, then you live it for your whole life and then you'd know

In saying that you would not be wrong either. The trick is the living of truth; pursuing truth all our lives. If our command is to "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect", then surely we have a lifetime of effort to pursue holiness, righteousness, and wisdom. The Catholic Church has so many saints that can enrich the lives of all that read about them and who read their counsel.

I also agree with you that if I could change one thing today it would be to strike the phrase, "I know this church is true" from the LDS meetings and speech. When we use that phrase, we are saying so much more: I know that God lives and that Jesus is the Christ. I know that the Holy Spirit guides us today. I know that Jesus has restored his church upon the earth in these latter days. I know that our voices join with countless others throughout history that praise God the Father, his Son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Striking this phrase would allow each member to more fully express themselves and bear actual testimony. Each Christian needs to be more careful of trite phrases and seek to be lead by the Spirit in bearing their testimony.