Are The Temple Ordinances "Secret"?

[Damien the Leper]

What the church thinks about the temple ceremony concerning sacred, secret or both is irrelevent. The LDS church does not own the sole copyright to the ceremony. You can read it online, you can read it in journals and you can read it from the Congressional Library Archives. It's not a secret anymore. It is, without a doubt, sacred...at least IMO.

[Hannah Rebekah]

By the dictionary definition of secret yes.

"Not secret but sacred" is an attempt to distinguish between something that is forever a secret and limited to a special class and the temple which is open to all who are willing to keep their covenants with God (as taught by the LDS church). That phrase isn't one of my favorites because it is an award attempt to describe this in a sound bite.

Ours is a fraternity that extends an invitation to all people everywhere (even the dead ones). In the eternal sense its not a very well kept secret.

As I said on the other thread our covenants not to reveal temple content outside of the temple probably have more to do with testing our ability to keep sacred things sacred than any imagined protection of the temple ceremony from prying eyes.

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Your post reminds me of this picture poster my son sent me yesterday:

[why me]

I don't think that there are any secrets anymore. One can find such secrets all over the internet. However, they are sacred and we are asked not to openly discuss them. Does this make them secret. No. It just means that they are sacred and should not be talked about as one would talk about a hamburger at a BBQ.

[why me]

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Your post reminds me of this picture poster my son sent me yesterday:

The picture is not exactly true. The lds does have sacred rites and are not encouraged to discuss them with non-members. But this does not make them secret. The poster makes the lds church seem sinister and it gives a negative connotation in people's minds. However, I do believe that with Mitt's acceptance speech and with the people that he helped as bishop speaking at the convention, people are definitely wondering just what is the mormon church because it sounds wonderful.

Edited August 31, 2012 by why me

[mfbukowski]

Will I get anything of value from playing this semantic game?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

No.

[mfbukowski]

Forget it

Edited August 31, 2012 by mfbukowski

[cinepro]

So, another question:

Are the Temple Ordinances more "sacred" than the Sacrament, or Baptism?

[thesometimesaint]

Cinepro:

All are equally sacred to this LDS. However there are levels of secret as with all things. IE; We pray publicly in our church meetings, no secret, but we hold them sacred. My personal prayers are equally sacred, but what is said is between just me and God.

Edited August 31, 2012 by thesometimesaint

[TJayT]

So, another question:

Are the Temple Ordinances more "sacred" than the Sacrament, or Baptism?

This is the question I ask when speaking to other members about this. I've yet to hear anyone answer yes, and it's a great illustration of things that are very sacred and not secret. The difference is that we don't promise to not discuss our baptismal covenants with outsiders.

[The Grimace]

In the thread discussing the Second Anointing podcast, a tangential disagreement came up about whether or not the Temple Ordinances are "secret."

We can all agree that LDS consider them "sacred", but some took exception to the idea that they are also "secret."

As a side note, I would point out that whether or not something is "sacred" is really irrelevant as to whether it is also "secret", other than to explain why it is "secret." There are many things which are sacred which are not secret, and many things which are secret which are not sacred. And some which are both, such as the Temple ceremonies.

As another side note, I would point out that just because some people know the secret, doesn't make something not secret. Some secrets are not well kept, and others are shared among large groups of people. Perhaps for the sake of discussion, we can apply these three definitions from Dictionary.com:

To prove my point, I would challenge anyone to prove me wrong by explaining what the Church would need to do if tomorrow morning, President Monson had a revelation that it was time to start keeping the Temple Ceremonies secret after all these years.

If the Temple Ceremonies are not "secret" at this time, what would need to change to make them so?

Please keep it on topic by answering the question. Thanks.

The temple ceremony is sacred to Latter-day Saints. As for secret, there are certain parts that are secret and during the endowment ceremony participants are explicitly told not to reveal them.

[KevinG]

More personal. Equally sacred.

[wenglund]

Are the Temple Ordinances more "sacred" than the Sacrament, or Baptism?

Not more sacred, but a higher level of sacredness--a higher level that requires sacred prerequisites like baptism and the sacrament. This seems so obvious to me as to render me baffled that a longterm member would think to ask about it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited August 31, 2012 by wenglund

[cinepro]

Okay, third question:

Are the Church's finances "secret" or "sacred"?

[thesometimesaint]

cinepro:

They are on a need to basis.

[Thinking]

Since Joseph Smith introduced the endowment in Nauvoo, the LDS Church has attempted to keep secret its contents. Endowed members take an oath to not reveal certain parts of the endowment. However, some former members have published those parts in books and on the internet. Now others can discover what goes on during the endowment without going through it. This does not change the fact that the LDS Church intends for the endowment to be secret.

[Chris4444]

INTRESTING FACTS-mormons are great people, the doctrines and founder might have had other intentions though-keep open minds, thats what god gave them to you for:)

The word occult comes from the Latin word occultus (clandestine, hidden, secret), referring to "knowledge of the hidden"

From wikipedia(not best source but debunk if you can)-Joseph Smith

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith

As was typical of their era, the Smiths believed in visions, prophecies, and folk magic, and Smith was hired as a scryer.

<< Deuteronomy 18:10 >> Don't let anyone try to control others with magic, and don't let them be mediums or try to talk with the spirits of dead people.

Deuteronomy 18:11 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,

So according to Wikipedia he was both a medium, magician, and practiced divination. If you count claims that he had prophesies that didnt come true, id say that is a royal flush of satanism!

I know this sounds like a slippery slope argument, but you cant deny it.....you can ignore criticism you have to face it. I challenge you to do that!!

[Calm]

Hasn't been ignored, see responses to such claims below:

http://en.fairmormon...upiter_talisman

http://en.fairmormon...h/Money_digging

http://en.fairmormon...ltism_and_magic

http://en.fairmormon...k_as_a_farmhand

http://en.fairmormon...to_Joseph_Smith

http://en.fairmormon...ith/Seer_stones

http://en.fairmormon...alse_prophecies

http://en.fairmormon.../Angel_of_Satan

http://en.fairmormon..._in_him_in_1827

Edited September 2, 2012 by calmoriah

[Chris4444]

, old secrets;)

No links to Temple content allowed.

[Calm]

Chris, you need to reread the board guidelines (you did read them when you signed up right, like you committed that you had...?)

Pay particular attention to this part if you wish to last very long on the board:

This is not a free speech board. It's a respectful speech board. We want participation from LDS and non-LDS people. Mocking LDS beliefs will drive away LDS members. This means:

• Do not use offensive terms for things we hold sacred.
  
• Do not post temple content or links to temple content.
  
• Do not use nicknames for LDS leaders. Example: Calling Joseph Smith "Joe" is not acceptable
  
• Do not post anything else you know is meant to do nothing more than push others' buttons.
  
• Libel is not tolerated and you may be held legally accountable.
  

[Chris4444]

Prophets dont need seeing stones yo!

[Chris4444]

oh my bad...i wont post any more, seems kinda like a bias debate if you're the only one who can post links....you agree?

[Chris4444]

to judge Smith i think we need to figure out what Deuteronomy means by magic divination ect and then look at the facts....do you know the bible means in the verse, there's other verse ant magic too, they are prob about the same jest though....Sorry if i offended you brother, just want to get to the truth on this issue!

[volgadon]

oh my bad...i wont post any more, seems kinda like a bias debate if you're the only one who can post links....you agree?

You are allowed to post links. What you are not allowed to post are links to explicit temple content. You can make your point without using those.

[Calm]

oh my bad...i wont post any more, seems kinda like a bias debate if you're the only one who can post links....you agree?

You can post links, just not to sites that have temple content on them. Serious posters who wish to challenge LDS reasoning, beliefs, etc. haven't had any trouble in the past finding appropriate links as can be demonstrated by going over past threads here.

[Calm]

to judge Smith i think we need to figure out what Deuteronomy means by magic divination ect and then look at the facts....do you know the bible means in the verse, there's other verse ant magic too, they are prob about the same jest though....Sorry if i offended you brother, just want to get to the truth on this issue!

I would suggest you read this thread that goes into this subject in depth first and then come back with any new comments you might have.