Lost in Ohio Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I saw this article and was wondering what the members of this board think about the decision of the league. It seems a little inconsistent to me to allow members to play on other teams but not have their own team. Thoughts?MERCER COUNTY, Pa. — Members of one church were told they weren't allowed to participate in a Mercer County softball league because of their beliefs.Players from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Slippery Rock said they were told they couldn't participate in the Grove City Area Church softball league because they're Mormon.The Grove City Area Church league is made up of 11 teams. Players said when they received word that LDS Church members may participate, three of the teams refused to play if the Mormon team was accepted.The president of the league released a statement saying, "The GCA church softball league is intended for fellowship among Christian churches. Not for members of different faiths. To call a group who proclaims a different gospel of salvation of Christian church is not only untrue, it is unloving. We cannot do this. We will not do this."League officials took a vote and refused to allow the team into the league. The league's president said members of the church are still welcome to play in the league, just not as a team.Link: http://www.wpxi.com/...christia/nPDBh/
Gohan Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I think it's rather stupid and bigoted of them personally, it's softball for crying out loud. And as a Pennsylvanian, I'm rather ashamed that it occurred there. Just my .02 1
Kenngo1969 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) If I were they, I'd be a lot more concerned if we were talking about a contact sport where the "Mormonness" might rub off onto other players, but ... softball? Or am I simply underestimating the gravity of the league's concern? I mean, players will still make contact in the course of tagging each other out. Is that sufficient contact for the Mormonness to rub off? P.S.: Go find a softball league without the word "Christian" in the title, and ... Voila! Problem solved! (Of course, then one might have to put up with coaches and players and their !@#$%!! language ... Edited May 25, 2012 by Kenngo1969
Jaybear Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 My, my. Self-appointed defenders of traditional "Christianity" believe that allowing the Mormon church field a team in a "Christian" Church league, would undermine the sanctity of the league.What a shocking display of bigotry and intolerance.
blackstrap Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Well,it would be terrible should a mormon team actually win a league tournament.Imagine the headlines!
Sophocles Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Mormons are allowed to play in the league, just not as their own team. The league is concerned that by allowing an LDS team, they would be making some kind of acknowledgement that the LDS Church is included in their definition of Christianty, which is contrary to their religious beliefs."The GCA church softball league is intended for fellowship among Christian churches. Not for members of different faiths."It's not a perfect analogy, but it's not that different from an LDS stake softball league not admitting a team from another church. The league is set up for fellowship among the wards, not as some kind of interfaith outreach tool. It's just that their idea of people who share their religion happens to include several different denominations, a concept that can be quite foreign to Mormons who believe in one true church, not a group of true churches.I don't agree with the policy. I think it's a dumb move. Down here in the south we have interfaith softball leagues and LDS teams are welcome and it's a great community building activity. But it sounds to me like they wanted to do an insular church league (like an LDS stake league) but no single denomination in the community is large enough to field a league (like most LDS wards probably couldn't field a whole league) so they expanded the scope of the league to what they consider to be their extended church family, not realizing that non-family members would also think they might be welcome. Edited May 25, 2012 by Sophocles 3
Gohan Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Don't think so, as a private league they can pretty much do what they want in that regard I think. Especially since they're still allowing individual members to play.And I don't see the LDS team filing for one anyway. It'd cause a big ruckus and in the end relations between the two groups would be worse rather than better.
altersteve Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Gotcha. I was under the impression that the team was endorsed or owned by the county.
cdowis Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) If they are using county facilities, it may cause them a problem.Anyway, I believe the solution is to encourage individual members to join the teams. The long term effect would be to show that they can contribute to the fellowship among team members, and eventually bring about a change in the rules.It is important to get rid of the "us" vs "them" that a separate LDS team would cause at this point. I think their decision was probably very good for the long term in eventually accepting us as Christians. I think the leadership probably feels uncomfortable about the situation, and allowing them to join the teams individually shows that they do not want to be branded as bigots.God moves in mysterious ways. Edited May 25, 2012 by cdowis
Mark Beesley Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Mormons are allowed to play in the league, just not as their own team. The league is concerned that by allowing an LDS team, they would be making some kind of acknowledgement that the LDS Church is included in their definition of Christianty, which is contrary to their religious beliefs."The GCA church softball league is intended for fellowship among Christian churches. Not for members of different faiths."It's not a perfect analogy, but it's not that different from an LDS stake softball league not admitting a team from another church. The league is set up for fellowship among the wards, not as some kind of interfaith outreach tool. It's just that their idea of people who share their religion happens to include several different denominations, a concept that can be quite foreign to Mormons who believe in one true church, not a group of true churches.I don't agree with the policy. I think it's a dumb move. Down here in the south we have interfaith softball leagues and LDS teams are welcome and it's a great community building activity. But it sounds to me like they wanted to do an insular church league (like an LDS stake league) but no single denomination in the community is large enough to field a league (like most LDS wards probably couldn't field a whole league) so they expanded the scope of the league to what they consider to be their extended church family, not realizing that non-family members would also think they might be welcome.Good points. Too many knee-jerk reactions to this kind of thing tend to cloud one's reasoned analysis. You did a good job.
Ron Beron Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 The president of the league released a statement saying, "The GCA church softball league is intended for fellowship among Christian churches. Not for members of different faiths. To call a group who proclaims a different gospel of salvation of Christian church is not only untrue, it is unloving. We cannot do this. We will not do this."Unloving??! We are unloving because we believe differently? My gosh...it is only baseball.
CA Steve Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Having participated in LDS sponsored sporting events all my life I think it might be a good thing that they do not allow a purely LDS team to participate.
Garden Girl Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I realize the wisdom in some of the replies such as Gohan's and Sophocles'... but I do get irked at this kind of bigotry against LDS, and as MarkB said... I get a kneejerk reaction and want to "do something." It just seems we always simply put up with this type of bigotry, and the nonsense about LDS being non-Christian... One can say it's just baseball that's true, but it's just one more instance of prejudice... when is enough enough?Grrrr...from the beach on a beautiful sunny morning... time to get out into the garden.GG
Kenngo1969 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Well,it would be terrible should a mormon team actually win a league tournament.Imagine the headlines!They'd know The Rapture is nigh, fer shure!
Kenngo1969 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Unloving??! We are unloving because we believe differently? My gosh...it is only baseball.I think what he's getting at, Bro. Ron, is that it would be unloving of them to allow us to play. (I know. I don't get it, either, but there it is ...)
Kenngo1969 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 It's not a perfect analogy, but it's not that different from an LDS stake softball league not admitting a team from another church. The league is set up for fellowship among the wards, not as some kind of interfaith outreach tool. It's just that their idea of people who share their religion happens to include several different denominations, a concept that can be quite foreign to Mormons who believe in one true church, not a group of true churches.i'm not 100% sure ... my memory's a little hazy. Maybe someone else can confirm this for me, but where I am (Utah, SLC general area) if my memory does serve me well, we used to allow entire Catholic Youth Organization teams into our youth Stake basketball league because there wouldn't have been enough competition locally for them to play otherwise. We told them that the rules included a strict "no-bad-language" policy in Church buildings which would be enforced by calling technical fouls on offenders. I don't think we had a policy forbidding them from competing just because of their fealty to the Pope. Just sayin' ...
Kenngo1969 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Wouldn't that be grounds for a lawsuit?if it were a city-sponsored league in a predominantly non-LDS Christian area and its powers-that-be wanted to exclude LDS on the basis of religion, then it might be. Otherwise, no.
CA Steve Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 What response should the Church have if a LGBT softball team asked to participate in Chruch sponsored softball league?
KevinG Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) What response should the Church have if a LGBT softball team asked to participate in Chruch sponsored softball league?Follow the same rules as everyone else and have a good time. I think it could be a very positive step in showing our religious differences don't segregate us completely from those who think differently.I personally think if an LDS player is interviewed by the press over this kurfluffle they should respond, we decided not to sue because we felt it would be unChristian of us to do so. Edited May 25, 2012 by KevinG 1
cdowis Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) What response should the Church have if a LGBT softball team asked to participate in Chruch sponsored softball league?Are they sponsored by a specific religious organization? Their gender identity preference should not be the qualification for the team. Edited May 25, 2012 by cdowis
Jaybear Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 What response should the Church have if a LGBT softball team asked to participate in Chruch sponsored softball league?The more analogous question is whether the Mormon fundamentalists would be allowed to field a team in a "Mormon" softball league.
Daniel Peterson Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Any "'Mormon' softball league" likely to exist in the real world would almost certainly be a stake or regional league, operated under the aegis of a very specific and well defined legal/ecclesiastical entity. "Christianity" is neither a specific Church organization nor a legally defined corporate body.So No, that analogy fails. 2
Darren10 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Wouldn't that be grounds for a lawsuit?I sure hope not. I'm quite tired of private organizations getting sued for violating rights when it's really a simple matter of allowing a private organization to set its own standards. If the Mercer Country Softball League doesn't want Mormons to play as a team, then so be it. The LDS can go as individuals, make their own league, or simply play amongst themselves. I find te MCSL's decision juvenile ("if you're not a Christian' then you can't have your own team") but it's their decision. So be it.
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