DWhitmer Posted May 9, 2012 Author Posted May 9, 2012 The Rapture is non-biblical...Weird:My point is that "The Rapture" is a single aspect of the second coming mentioned in the Bible (and the Doctrine and Covenants), and since LDS believe in both the Bible and the second coming of Jesus, we therefore "believe" it.
DWhitmer Posted May 9, 2012 Author Posted May 9, 2012 All evangelicals accept the fact that the protestant movement was a new movement, breaking away from the catholic church. They also accept that Christ started a new religion breaking away from Judaism. Your reasoning is flawed.Obfuscation. I stand by the wording, you have nothing.
Freedom Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 Weird:Why don't you respond to my discussion of 1 Thessalonians and then provide your definition of the Rapture. The Rapture as evangelicals understand it is non-biblical and the evangelical movement is a new religion. You may not like this fact, but it is a reality that you will accept eventually.
DWhitmer Posted May 9, 2012 Author Posted May 9, 2012 Why don't you respond to my discussion of 1 Thessalonians and then provide your definition of the Rapture. The Rapture as evangelicals understand it is non-biblical and the evangelical movement is a new religion. You may not like this fact, but it is a reality that you will accept eventually.How shall you know unless you know what we're talking about. Surely there is ONE LDS statement of opinion SOMEWHERE by J.Smith, or someone regarding this MIRACULOUS and HIGHLY ANTICIPATED event.
Freedom Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 How shall you know unless you know what we're talking about. Surely there is ONE LDS statement of opinion SOMEWHERE by J.Smith, or someone regarding this MIRACULOUS and HIGHLY ANTICIPATED event.In other words, you have no idea what you mean by 'rapture'. It is not possible to know what you are taking about unless you tell us. This is a chronic problem with your posts. You never say what you mean. The LDS doctrine is not derived entirely from the Bible, and neither is the evangelical doctrine. 'Rapture' is not found anywhere in any scriptures.
Minos Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 How shall you know unless you know what we're talking about. Surely there is ONE LDS statement of opinion SOMEWHERE by J.Smith, or someone regarding this MIRACULOUS and HIGHLY ANTICIPATED event.You are trolling and will be removed from your own thread if you continue to be unresponsive.
Calm Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 If one does a search on the term "rapture" on lds.org, one finds it is not typically used to describe any event presecond-coming. The Rapture is not an LDS belief, therefore so why the assumption that there must be some discussion about it somewhere.One can easily find the beliefs LDS associated with the second coming by reading the link I gave above. That is what LDS think are important and are evidenced in the scriptures, not a nonbiblical interpretation. 1
cinepro Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 This is not a trap. What are the LDS views of the Rapture, including official statements, historical statements G.A., any LDS professor, books published by Deseret, etc.Perhaps the most prudent thing to do would be to define what you mean by "Rapture", since there seem to be a lot of different ideas about the subject among modern Christians.So, what does the "Rapture" mean to you DWhitmer? Specifically, when do you think it will occur (in reference to the second coming of Jesus), and what do you think will happen to the righteous and wicked at that time?I was pretty clear about which definition I was referring to, but you seem to be lost in a fog of vagaries and willful misunderstanding.
Freedom Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 How foolish is the youth who feels that the Church is a fence around love to keep him out. Oh, youth, if you could know! The requirements of the Church are the highway to love and to happiness, with guardrails securely in place, with guideposts plainly marked, and with help along the way.How unfortunate to resent counsel and restraint. How fortunate are you who follow the standards of the Church, even if just from sheer obedience or habit. You will find a rapture and a joy fulfilled. B PackerMy native country, thee,Land of the noble, free,Thy name I love;I love thy rocks and rills,Thy woods and templed hills.My heart with rapture thrillsLike that above.Hymn 115“Joseph, this is my Beloved;Hear him!” Oh, how sweet the word!Joseph’s humble prayer was answered,And he listened to the Lord.Oh, what rapture filled his bosom,For he saw the living God.Spirit communes with spirit, thought meets thought, soul blends with soul, in all the raptures of mutual, pure, and eternal love.Hymn 26Harold B Lee. I have provided a few LDS references to 'Rapture'. Now how about if you provide some biblical references to 'Rapture'. I can't seem to find any.
DWhitmer Posted May 9, 2012 Author Posted May 9, 2012 Perhaps the most prudent thing to do would be to define what you mean by "Rapture", since there seem to be a lot of different ideas about the subject among modern Christians.So, what does the "Rapture" mean...you seem to be lost in a fog of vagaries and willful misunderstanding.For alleged Christians to be clueless of what the Rapture is speaks volumes. In any case, if you missed the Left Behind book series, or the numerous movies on it, it comes from the Latin Vulgate 1 Thes.4.17 rapio which means "to catch up."
The Nehor Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 How shall you know unless you know what we're talking about. Surely there is ONE LDS statement of opinion SOMEWHERE by J.Smith, or someone regarding this MIRACULOUS and HIGHLY ANTICIPATED event.The concept of the rapture as it is now generally believed was invented in 1830 in Scotland. Joseph may never have heard of the concept and if he did it certainly wasn't a big deal. It didn't get popular in the United States until the early 1900's.For alleged Christians to be clueless of what the Rapture is speaks volumes. In any case, if you missed the Left Behind book series, or the numerous movies on it, it comes from the Latin Vulgate 1 Thes.4.17 rapio which means "to catch up."To be clueless about its origins speaks volumes about you.Yep, it was a trap. Called it.
cinepro Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 For alleged Christians to be clueless of what the Rapture is speaks volumes. In any case, if you missed the Left Behind book series, or the numerous movies on it, it comes from the Latin Vulgate 1 Thes.4.17 rapio which means "to catch up."Are you aware that there are several different "Rapture" theories? Based on the sequence of events in the Gospel Principles manual, it looks like LDS follow the "posttribulation" school of thought.(Image from Wikipedia)Pre-Tribulational Rapturism: This is by far, the most common viewpoint in America today among those who believe in any one of the many Rapture theories. It's roots can be traced back to 1830, although it did not really become prevalent in America until the early 1900's. Pre-trib teaches this:The final 7-year period of the world is called the Tribulation.The last 3.5 years are called the Great Tribulation. The entire 7-year period is considered the Wrath of God or the Day of the Lord.Since the Church is not destined for God's wrath, then the Church is Raptured prior to the 7-year period.The Rapture is considered to be an "any moment" event.Mid-Tribulation Rapturism: This view is even more recent than pre-trib, becoming popular in 1941.This view believes:The final 7 year period of the world is called the Tribulation.The last 3.5 years are called the Great Tribulation.The last 3.5 years are considered the Wrath of God or the Day of the Lord.Since the Church is not destined for God's wrath, then the Church is Raptured at the mid-way point.Pre-Wrath Rapturism: This view believes:The Day of the Lord is called the Wrath of God. The Day of the Lord starts sometime in the second half of the 7 year period. Since the Church is not destined for God's wrath, the Rapture of the Church occurs immediately prior to the Day of the Lord.The Pre-Wrath position is not a new position of the Rapture teaching Churches. The only thing that is new is the name. They view that the Church would see Antichrist and be removed prior to God's judgment. Post-Tribulation Rapturism: Post-trib was by far the most popular opinion (among Rapturists) during the time of the Reformation (16th century), but cannot be traced to a specific starting point. There are a lot of variations on this view but in its classic sense post-tribbers believe:The church must endure the entire 7-year period, to be Raptured at the end of the Tribulation. God will protect his children through His wrath.
Freedom Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 For alleged Christians to be clueless of what the Rapture is speaks volumes. In any case, if you missed the Left Behind book series, or the numerous movies on it, it comes from the Latin Vulgate 1 Thes.4.17 rapio which means "to catch up."There is a huge difference between the word 'rapture' and the non-biblical (and therefore by your definition non-christian) teaching called The Rapture.
ERayR Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 For alleged Christians to be clueless of what the Rapture is speaks volumes. In any case, if you missed the Left Behind book series, or the numerous movies on it, it comes from the Latin Vulgate 1 Thes.4.17 rapio which means "to catch up."The last time I checked the Left Behind book series had not been cannized, thus not scripture.
DWhitmer Posted May 9, 2012 Author Posted May 9, 2012 Are you aware that there are several different "Rapture" theories?Your people have much catching up to do.Based on the sequence of events in the Gospel Principles manual, it looks like LDS follow the "posttribulation" school of thought.One thing that is VERY pertinent to Rapture doctrine is the Tribulation. For some reason there was no mention of the tribulation. There is a huge difference between the word 'rapture' and the non-biblical (and therefore by your definition non-christian) teaching called The Rapture.I have not interpreted yet, only quote Latin verse.The last time I checked the Left Behind book series had not been cannized, thus not scripture.Would that have mattered. Last time I checked, you claim the BoM is canon.
thesometimesaint Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) DWhitmer:Those darn Catholics. They don't believe in your Protestant Rapture either. Must not be Christan. After all they have more canon than you.(snark off) Edited May 9, 2012 by thesometimesaint
Freedom Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 Are you ever going to tell us what you think the rapture is or at least provide some scriptural evidence for it, or are you going to continue to act like a 12 year old? Yes there will be tribulation, clearly the LDS faith teaches that there will be tribulation. Yes the Savior will come again and the saints will be 'caught up' to meet Him. We cannot provide references to the rapture in LDS thought if you do not tell us what the rapture is. It is not found in the bible so you need to provide your own sources to explain it.
The Nehor Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 Your people have much catching up to do.Indeed, it is clear that those who actually got John's letter had no idea what it was talking about and it wasn't until the 19th Century that brilliant Christians figured it out.One thing that is VERY pertinent to Rapture doctrine is the Tribulation. For some reason there was no mention of the tribulation. Another recent ad hoc recent addition to theology. Keep piling them up on top of each other and pretend they are key points despite no Christian believing in them until the last few centuries. We have always been at war with Australasia.
Freedom Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 I personally don't believe it.My problem is, I just am not certain what I am to believe or not to believe. I just wish he would tell us what The Rapture is. The bible just doesn't ever mention it.
DWhitmer Posted May 9, 2012 Author Posted May 9, 2012 Yes there will be tribulation, clearly the LDS faith teaches that there will be tribulation.Yes the Savior will come again and the saints will be 'caught up' to meet Him.I'll trust you know what your people authoritatively believe. So, as it stands now for LDS, do THEY need to do anything before any of those three things can occur? Historically, a hundred years ago, fifty, ten, right now, I'll glad hear whatever you have.
The Nehor Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 My problem is, I just am not certain what I am to believe or not to believe. I just wish he would tell us what The Rapture is. The bible just doesn't ever mention it.Standard rhetorical trick. If you won't say what you mean and your opponent will you can dodge any critique of yourself and insult your opponent by taking whatever position is convenient without actually taking it.Of course if your opponent is schooled in rhetoric or understands this you just come across as an airhead.
The Nehor Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 I'll trust you know what your people authoritatively believe.How delightfully patronizing and condescending of you.
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