Is God Ever Silent?

[inquiringmind]

Are there times when God seems silent? I would guess many if not all feel this way.

But if you've asked God questions, and He doesn't seem to be answering them right now, does it always mean that you've sinned in some way? Sin is not a necessary antecedent to silence (or apparent silence) from God.

If you can't hear His voice at the moment, is it always your fault? Same as above question.

Why did the Psalmist say "O Lord God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee...Lord, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?" (Psalm 88:1, 14)? Because it hurts.

Are there times when He chooses to be silent? Yes. And there is a third option. It may be due to sin, or due to God choosing, or due to conditions in our fallen state.

Thank you.

Edited March 21, 2012 by inquiringmind

[Kenngo1969]

I don't have anything substantive to add to the thread, but can I just say that I love (and am tremendously comforted by) that quote from Brigham Young?

Thanks!

[inquiringmind]

I don't have anything substantive to add to the thread, but can I just say that I love (and am tremendously comforted by) that quote from Brigham Young?

Thanks!

Thank you for sharing that Kenngo 1969.(it made me feel the same way.)

Now can I ask you another question that's been on my mind for awhile?

Would you say it was your thinking about Brigham's quote that was comforting, or did God directly transmit a positive feeling to you?

In other words, do our feelings ever have anything to do with our thoughts, or does every feeling originate from outside ourselves?

I'm sure God (or the devil) can make us feel things, but do all our feelings come from them?

Is every nice, peaceful, comforting feeling a direct communication from God; and is every troubling, uneasy feeling a demonic assault?

Edited March 21, 2012 by inquiringmind

[rongo]

inquiringmind, another aspect is Elder Dallin H. Oaks' talk in priesthood session of conference a few conferences ago. An absolutely indispensible talk about priesthood blessings. He stressed that people will get the blessing that God has for them *regardless* of what is said in the blessing. Anyone with any experience giving blessings sees the value in this, because they have experienced the highs and lows of revelation through blessings. Sometimes the clouds part and the heavens open, and sometimes we feel nothing. Nothing at all. Yet, we have to continue and say *something.*

It is actually a good thing that revelation is not "on demand." Like my wife says, this keeps us us, and God God. It helps us appreciate the stunning vistas when we have a revelatory breakthrough, because we have the opposite to compare it to (cf. 2 Nephi 2 ----- we know things by their opposites, without opposites, we can't know anything).

A graphic example of Elder Oaks and President Young's point: several years ago, a non-member called me and asked me to give her neice a blessing. This non-member attended church regularly, and would long ago have been baptized, but her common law partner of 20+ years refused to marry her (they have five kids, and he is the son of a stake president). Her neice was not responsive, and everyone was terrified. When we got to the ICU, the staff was initially not cooperative because we weren't family and the family had indicated that they had no affiliation or clergy. They asked the family and we were allowed in. I have never seen a family in such a state of terror. The girl (ca. 18 or so years old) was effectively in a coma and they didn't know why. She was undergoing a blood transfusion, and mother, father, and teeange brother had been there in a vigil. I introduced us and told them that Juanita had asked us to come and give her a blessing, and I explained what that was and how it would look. The father asked me if I would say that their daughter would die, and this took me aback, because I was with my father when he released a sister we home taught from this life in a blessing (after which she quickly passed away). I told him that we didn't come there to do that, and hoped not to, but that we would strive to discern the will of God in giving the blessing. They agreed, and my companion annointed her (we were counselors in the bishopric) while the nurse overseeing the transfusion stepped aside. When I sealed the annointing (she was hard to reach because of the tubes and equipment), I didn't have a clear thought of what to say other than that the doctors would be able to determine what was wrong (it was a mystery, but was later determined to be a rare and deadly blood condition called TTP or TPP), and that she would recover *in time.* That was the over-arching thought ---- she would recover, but it would be over a long period of time.

Juanita called two weeks later and told me that her neice had passed away without ever waking up, and that the family was devastated. I was worried about the faith/confidence/testimony aspect of this, but she then said that the family had had tremendous peace and calm over those two weeks and that the nurse had asked them when we left what church we were from. They didnt' know, and the nurse emphasized that she wanted them to find out for her. I am struck that what the blessing said/promised was not fulfilled ----- rather, the opposite happened. Yet, God fulfilled His objective through the blessing, even though we didn't discern to say it (or He didn't give it). My experience with blessings is that no matter what one's past experience is (back of the Ensign stories, and so on), each blessing is a unique occurrence, and past experience is no assurance of current inspiration. It is every time an awesome and awe-ful (full of awe) experience, where nothing can be taken for granted and no one can "skate by." And this doesn't stem from worthiness or unworthiness, I think.

To answer your question, I don't think that God "is silent" primariy because of shortcomings on our part ---- I think it's because He best knows how to help each of us grow and develop how we're supposed to *at this time.*

[inquiringmind]

Thank you for sharing that.

How would you answer my question about thoughts and feelings (post #28)?

Do they all come from outside of us?

Edited March 21, 2012 by inquiringmind

[Duncan]

I recall being told in a blessing prior to my wedding that we were meant for each other yet we divorced so does that mean whoever I marry now I wasn't meant for them? I hold to various phrases used in blessings given years ago and wrote them down as per Elder Scott's counsel but I don't know if they will come to pass as sometimes for me i think whatever was supposed to be for me in this life is gone and done for as the past messed up the future which is why i haven't really read my P. Blessing in quite sometime as it causes mental anguish, but I am working on it so I am more confused today about blessings and what to believe and what not to or even what to think about them. I know one of you will take issue as we exchanged an email about this and they shared some beautiful words about their experience with thier P. Blessing and I still read it from time to time and am thankful for their kinds words and advice!

[CV75]

Is every nice, peaceful, comforting feeling a direct communication from God; and is every troubling, uneasy feeling a demonic assault?

No. The only way to tell the difference is to transcend them spiritually with the assistance of the Holy Ghost. It is miraculous and cannot be formularized.

Emotions and intellect are the only tools we have, on our own, to convey our spiritual experiences to others, with the exception of those occasions where the Holy Spirit confirms the truth of what we are communicating.

Covenants, scripture, authoritative guidance and so forth are all helpful in identifying what is spiritual and what is not; but they must be processed spiritually to allow their proper alignment with emotions and intellect in such a way as to permit the transcendant power of the Holy Ghost to help us tell the difference.

Edited March 21, 2012 by CV75

[Kenngo1969]

Thank you for sharing that Kenngo 1969.(it made me feel the same way.)

Now can I ask you another question that's been on my mind for awhile?

Would you say it was your thinking about Brigham's quote that was comforting, or did God directly transmit a positive feeling to you? There may be a dichotomy between those two things sometimes (my thoughts versus what God "trasmits" to me), but I don't think that dichotomy always exists. God says he will tell us what to do not only in our hearts, but in our minds, as well. (See Doctrine & Covenants 9:7-9 and Doctrine & Covenants 8:2).

In other words, do our feelings ever have anything to do with our thoughts, or does every feeling originate from outside ourselves? I would say that our feelings often have a lot to do with our thoughts and vice-versa. It certainly makes life more challenging when we have to discern whether what we think might come from God actually originates from our own minds, and I admit that I'm far from perfect in that regard; like anything else, it takes practice. I might have to ask myself, "What are the chances that (and/or the possible reasons why) this thought originated with me versus being inspiration from God? Do I have the peaceful feeling spoken of in the Doctrine & Covenants, or do I have the stupor of thought? What are the potential consequences if I act on this feeling? Will my acting on it bear good fruit? (As Christ says, a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit).

I'm sure God (or the devil) can make us feel things, but do all our feelings come from them?

Is every nice, peaceful, comforting feeling a direct communication from God; and is every troubling, uneasy feeling a demonic assault? No. It's quite possible God may cause us to feel troubled about something if it's not a course He wishes us to take. I believe that's part of the "stupor of thought" mentioned in the Doctrine & Covenants. We also need to pay attention to the sequence in which things happen, I think. If I'm troubled about a subject upon which I have previously felt I've received inspiration, I don't think that's usually a case of God "changing His mind" or trying to nudge me in another direction. I think that's a case of "opposition in all things" that Lehi talks about in the Book of Mormon, in which the Adversary is attempting to make me doubt the inspiration I have previously received.

I like this quote from Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles: "With every decision, there are cautions and considerations to make. But once there has been illumination, beware the temptation to retreat from a good thing. If it was right when you prayed about it and trusted it and lived for it, it is right now. Don't give in when the pressure mounts. Certainly don't give in to that being who is bent on the destruction of your happiness. Stay the course and see the beauty of life unfold for you." I recommend the whole article. It's called, "Cast Not Away, Therefore, Your Confidence," again by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, and it appeared in the March 2000 edition of the Ensign, which is available at LDS.org.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'

Stole my thunder... That (or "this") is a great example of how even the Son of God felt abandoned and how it is not a sin to feel that way at times. In fact it is a big part of the human condition.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[inquiringmind]

Stole my thunder... That (or "this") is a great example of how even the Son of God felt abandoned and how it is not a sin to feel that way at times. In fact it is a big part of the human condition.

I focused more on other posts because I know that the Son of God had a special mission, and I wasn't sure how much we could deduce from His temporary abandonment on the cross.

Do you really feel that the silence of God is "a big part of the human condition"?

Edited March 21, 2012 by inquiringmind

[CV75]

I focused more on other posts because I know that the Son of God had a mission, and I thought His temporary abandonment on the cross was a part of that special mission.

I hadn't considered the possibility that it's also "a big part of the human condition"?

Thank you.

I believe it is the ultimate condition in which we can surrender our wills to His—to feel that way and yet “choose the right.”

[inquiringmind]

I believe it is the ultimate condition in which we can surrender our wills to His—to feel that way and yet “choose the right.”

Thank you.

[inquiringmind]

I would say that our feelings often have a lot to do with our thoughts and vice-versa. It certainly makes life more challenging when we have to discern whether what we think might come from God actually originates from our own minds, and I admit that I'm far from perfect in that regard; like anything else, it takes practice. I might have to ask myself, "What are the chances that (and/or the possible reasons why) this thought originated with me versus being inspiration from God? Do I have the peaceful feeling spoken of in the Doctrine & Covenants, or do I have the stupor of thought? What are the potential consequences if I act on this feeling? Will my acting on it bear good fruit? (As Christ says, a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit).

Is it enough to just ask yourself the second question (about whether you have a peaceful feeling), or should you ask all these questions?

Edited March 21, 2012 by inquiringmind

[Grundelwalken]

Is it enough to just ask yourself the second question (about whether you have a peaceful feeling), or should you ask all these questions?

I would be very careful about asking yourself too many questions when it comes ot revelation. It is easy to 'question' yourself right away from the truth by bringing up doubts of "what might be or might have been" in the process. For me, I have to trust the answer I receive and then not cut away at it because I don't understand all the implications. Revelation still requires faith! MW

[inquiringmind]

I would be very careful about asking yourself too many questions when it comes ot revelation. It is easy to 'question' yourself right away from the truth by bringing up doubts of "what might be or might have been" in the process. For me, I have to trust the answer I receive and then not cut away at it because I don't understand all the implications. Revelation still requires faith! MW

I remember thinking of the words "too little too late" (about a day or two before I finally quite smoking.)

I don't know why (maybe because I'd been trying to fight negative thoughts all day, and was consciously trying to picture peaceful scenes in my mind at the time), but it took awhile before I really thought about what those words could mean.

Since then I've found them very troubling, but I think I was feeling pretty peaceful when they first came into my mind (and for maybe a minute or two after that.)

So if I had a peaceful feeling when these words came to me, was that a revelation from God?

Was He telling me that if I didn't quite smoking right then (that night, instead of a day or two latter, when I did quite smoking) it would be "too little too late"?

I really think the words I now find so disturbing, and the peaceful feeling I'd been searching for all that day, were at first concurrent.

What do I make of that?

Did I quite smoking too late (and is everything I do now too little too late)?

Edited March 21, 2012 by inquiringmind

[Calm]

I don't think the words "too little, too late" can ever be applied in the same context of the Atonement.

[inquiringmind]

I don't think the words "too little, too late" can ever be applied in the same context of the Atonement.

But I remember feeling peaceful when I thought of those words (and for maybe a minute or two after that.)

I was sitting in the van with dad, we were on our way back from the ER (where we had been most of the day), and I had just come out of a convenience store where I got him a box of tissues and some milk.

As I got back in the van I was thinking about what a bad mood I'd been in, and trying to think nicer thoughts.

I felt peaceful, I thought of those words, I still felt peaceful, I thought about going back in the store to get a pack of cigarettes, then I was hit by all the horrible things the words could mean, and I didn't get the cigarettes.

I took dad home, I got on the internet, and before the night was over I started smoking the cigarettes I left here when I followed the ambulance.

The next day I think I even bought a pack (but I haven't bought one since, and that was over two months ago.)

So if a peaceful feeling always means that God is talking to you, what was He saying?

Is everything I've done in the last two months too late because I didn't stop smoking then?

This is one of the reasons I asked Kennego

Is it enough to just ask yourself the second question (about whether you have a peaceful feeling), or should you ask all these questions?

Edited March 21, 2012 by inquiringmind

[Zakuska]

But if you've asked God questions, and He doesn't seem to be answering them right now, does it always mean that you've sinned in some way?

If you can't hear His voice at the moment, is it always your fault?

Why did the Psalmist say "O Lord God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee...Lord, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?" (Psalm 88:1, 14)?

Isaiah seems to answers the Psalmists question.

Isaiah 59

1 Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.

4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

[inquiringmind]

What makes you think Psalm 88 was written during the time of Isaiah?

Have you read the whole Psalm?

Where is there any indication that the author was unrighteous?

[JDave]

Isaiah seems to answers the Psalmists question.

Isaiah 59

1 Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.

4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

Be careful in ascribing sin to a situation, especially in ignorance. If the question was asked, "What is this author's sin, that the Lord answers not?" the Lord may well answer "Neither hath this man sinned, nor [transgressed the law]: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him." John 9:3

[Zakuska]

What makes you think Psalm 88 was written during the time of Isaiah?

I never said it was "written during the time of Isaiah". What I did say is Isaiah answers the Psalmists question. Which would dictate that Isaiah came after the Hymn was written.

Lets see... According to the Bible dictionary:

Korah.. .. (4) Son of Izhar, grandson of Kohath, and great-grandson of Levi (Ex. 6:21, 24), the leader of the rebellion against Moses and Aaron (Num. 16; 26:9–11; Jude 1:11). His descendants, the Korahites, or Korathites, formed a guild of musicians (2 Chr. 20:19; titles of Ps. 42, 44–49, 84, 85, 87, 88), while others held the responsible post of doorkeeper (porter in KJV) of the temple (1 Chr. 9:17–19).

2 Chr 20:19 tells us that Jehoshaphat reigned on the throne of Israel during 873-849 BC. Which was the time when Psalm 88 was written.

Jehoshaphat took the throne at the age of thirty-five and reigned for twenty-five years.

[2]

William F. Albright

has dated the reign of Jehoshaphat to 873 – 849 BC.

Isaiah lived during King Hezeciahs reign. Which indeed came AFTER the Psalm was written.

Isaiah lived until the fourteenth year of Hezekiah (who died

698 BC

), and may have been contemporary for some years with

Manasseh

. Thus Isaiah may have prophesied for as long as sixty-four years.

Have you read the whole Psalm?

Yes... I particularly like this verse.

9 Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: Lord, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee

Where is there any indication that the author was unrighteous?

Does not the saying go... the wage of sin is death... and there is none righteous no not one... all die and come short of the Glory of God? (Romans 3)

We see an echo of this in verse 15:

Pslam 88

15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Zakuska

[LeSellers]

is everything I do now too little too late?

It's always too little and never too late. The thing is, Christ makes up any difference.

Lehi

[Mudcat]

Are there times when He chooses to be silent?

I don't speak from an LDS paradigm of faith, rather an Evangelical one.

But sure there are time when God is silent.

My own thoughts as to why that is commonly the case, is that the good Teacher never talks during the test.

[inquiringmind]

An anonymous friend wrote

It has rarely been simply a "good" or "peaceful" feeling for me. It has been a resolute feeling usually accompanied by knowledge I had no way of knowing

So "simply a 'good' or 'peaceful' feeling" could arise from your own efforts (especially if you're consciously working on your thoughts), but a more "resolute feeling" (from out of nowhere, accompanied by knowledge you have no way of knowing) comes from God?

Could that be the answer?

Could it be that I was just starting to make myself feel a little better when those words came to mind, and God wasn't telling me anything about anything being too little too late?

Edited March 22, 2012 by inquiringmind

[inquiringmind]

It's always too little and never too late. The thing is, Christ makes up any difference.

Lehi

So if a peaceful feeling coincided with those thoughts, it wouldn't necessarily mean that God was telling me that it's too late for anything?

I do remember trying to think of nice things, and to improve my attitude.

Could that peaceful feeling I had around the same time I thought of those awful words (and until they sunk in) have come from me?

Edited March 22, 2012 by inquiringmind