Is God Ever Silent?

[JDave]

inquiringmind,

Sometimes we have words or feelings that stick with us and provide support to us for a long time. Sometimes we are prompted to do, or not to do, something. Perhaps you were prompted with the words that you needed to make a decision at that time, but I agree that treating those words as a statement about your life does not jive well with the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Understanding where our thoughts end and divine inspiration begins is not a topic where we can judge other people's experiences. We can speak of general principles but our experiences are our own to interpret for only we know all that went into it.

I find peace and comfort (perhaps from the Spirit ) in the thought that all that inspires towards goodness and kindness is of Christ, meaning that it is true and in line with eternal principles of righteousness and happiness. If I feel that some action is good, I don't need to worry whether it is my thought or an inspiration. It is good, so I can go forward with it. The Spirit can then confirm that we took a good action, that we acted in alignment with eternal truth. The question I like to ask is "Do I feel good about it?", which is very similar to the line of questioning that Kenngo spoke of.

[mercyngrace]

When I first started recognizing the Spirit, discerning between my own feelings and genuine spiritual interaction was very difficult. The one constant for me was that I felt peace, as in the absence of inner conflict. I suddenly just knew my course. Could I talk myself back into inner turbulence? Absolutely. One thing I was unable to do was talk myself out of inner conflict. I was exceptionally good at seeing all the problematic outcomes and second guessing every decision - maybe that's why God has spoken so loudly to me over the years. He knows I can talk myself into or out of anything. So in my case, I was unable to find complete peace about a decision unless the Spirit settled the matter in my heart. More often than not, I didn't even know how I had come to the decision intellectually, I just felt an unwavering assurance that it was right, purposeful, or necessary.

A good example occurred when I was a missionary. I got a letter from home telling me that my dad was having heart problems and had been in and out of the hospital. I was in the middle of nowhere in the Andes and I immediately freaked out. I called home and was told that my mom and dad were at the hospital. This was before cell phones and most people didn't use email back then - I was an absolute wreck. I went to the apartment and packed everything. I was going home. My companion suggested that we pray before calling the mission president. I was too upset to think straight but we knelt down and prayed anyway. After several minutes, I got up and sat in a chair. In an instant, it felt as if someone had wrapped an electric blanket around me. I felt like I had been embraced by this overwhelming warmth. I stood up, unpacked my bags, turned to my companion and said "Let's go teach. My dad is going to be fine." And I knew in that moment, without any doubt or wavering, that my dad was fine. And he was.

It has rarely been simply a "good" or "peaceful" feeling for me. It has been a resolute feeling usually accompanied by knowledge I had no way of knowing. Sometimes, the feeling is completely contrary to my desires and may bring consequences I don't want, but even then, I feel peace in the sense that I have complete trust that there is a purpose in what I am being guided to do or say.

What I'm getting at is that interactions with the Spirit change you in a measurable way. They either change your course or they eliminate your confusion about your course and settle your mind on the matter.

The convincing power of the Holy Ghost is so great that there can be no doubt that what He reveals to us is true. President Joseph Fielding Smith said:

“When a man has the manifestation from the Holy Ghost, it leaves an indelible impression on his soul, one that is not easily erased. It is Spirit speaking to spirit, and it comes with convincing force. A manifestation of an angel, or even of the Son of God himself, would impress the eye and mind, and eventually become dimmed, but the impressions of the Holy Ghost sink deeper into the soul and are more difficult to erase” (Answers to Gospel Questions, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., 5 vols. [1957–66], 2:151).

President Smith also said, “Through the Holy Ghost the truth is woven into the very fibre and sinews of the body so that it cannot be forgotten” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 1:48).

If you read Moses 5 in the Pearl of Great Price, you will notice that when the Holy Ghost touches Adam and Eve, Adam begins to prophesy (gains knowledge hitherto unknown) and Eve gains wisdom (she suddenly sees the purpose in her transgression and the plan of salvation).

My experience has almost always been something like that.

As for the smoking story, I don't know that I can even guess what was happening. Do you feel that you are talking yourself out of the peace you felt that day or do you genuinely feel unsettled? I liked Cal's response on the thread - too little too late isn't the sentiment of the God I know - at least in any eternal sense. We can miss temporal opportunities or reap mortal consequences but even those lost moments and adverse repercussions can become powerful opportunities for growth and progress. At least, I've found that to be true in my life.

Having said all that, I think the Spirit communicates with each of us in an individualized way - for some people it is more of an emotional feeling, for others it is more of pure knowledge, for others it is peace. Remember on the day of Pentecost when the outpouring of the Spirit allowed all men to hear the gospel preached in his own tongue?

For me, a "good" feeling has never been enough. I have "good" feelings all the time that aren't necessarily messages from God. If the good feeling motivates me to be charitable or to act in a Christlike way, then I recognize it as something more than a passing moment of happiness but even so, for me, the presence of the Spirit is usually accompanied with knowledge so if I had experienced what you described, I would know that the persistent nagging questions about the experience indicate that it wasn't from God. But that's me.

[rongo]

Sorry I'm not getting back until now, inquiringmind! I was gone all day yesterday, and will be today as well.

I don't think that all peaceful feelings come from God, or that all bad feelings come from the devil. I met with a sister from our ward last night who suffers from severe bouts of depression and suicidal thoughts. This fact would come as a huge shock to anyone who knows her (former primary president, current yw presidency member). She is very self-aware, though, and knows that these thoughts are bogus, despite how earnest they feel. I told her that I think God and the devil are both blamed for a lot of things that aren't their fault . . .

mercyandgrace wrote:

When I first started recognizing the Spirit, discerning between my own feelings and genuine spiritual interaction was very difficult.

I think this is still difficult, even for the President of the Church. I also firmly believe that it is never a "given" for anybody, no matter how experienced one is or what experiences one has had. And there is great value in this, and I wouldn't trade it for anything, although it is painful and nerve-wracking for us in the moment.

[Kenngo1969]

I don't speak from an LDS paradigm of faith, rather an Evangelical one.

But sure there are time when God is silent.

My own thoughts as to why that is commonly the case, is that the good Teacher never talks during the test.

Mudcat, this post illustrates why you're one of my favorite posters on this Board.

[mercyngrace]

Okay, I searched "the spirit or emotions" at lds.org and here's what I found:

How do I know what I am feeling is the Spirit and not just my own emotions?

We sometimes hear stories in which the Spirit speaks audibly or through visions or strong impressions. But more often, revelation comes quietly (see D&C 6:23; 8:2–3; 1 Kings 19:11–12).

President Brigham Young (1801–1877) said: “The Spirit of God filling the creature with revelation and the light of eternity, cannot be mistaken” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young [1997], 319).

Search your own experience. Remember how you’ve felt when you’ve prayed, studied the scriptures, or had other experiences with the Spirit. Continue to do those things and seek out those experiences. Learn to recognize those feelings that enlighten and speak peace to your mind and that encourage you to believe in Christ, love others, and do good. As you do so, you will learn what President Young was talking about.

Reference

The Spirit Is the Key

In order to strengthen testimony, it is important to be able to have the Holy Ghost with you and to listen to His promptings. It is hard, however, to hear the Spirit’s whisperings when you are distracted by other things. Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has taught:

“The inspiring influence of the Holy Spirit can be overcome or masked by strong emotions, such as anger, hate, passion, fear, or pride. When such influences are present, it is like trying to savor the delicate flavor of a grape while eating a jalapeño pepper. Both flavors are present, but one completely overpowers the other. In like manner, strong emotions overcome the delicate promptings of the Holy Spirit” (“To Acquire Spiritual Guidance,” Ensign, Nov. 2009).

Reference

Following the Prophet Joseph Smith’s martyrdom, President Brigham Young reported that Joseph visited him a number of times. On one occasion, President Young said, “Joseph stepped toward me and looking very earnestly, yet pleasantly, said, ‘Tell the people to be humble and faithful, and be sure to keep the Spirit of the Lord and it will lead them right. Be careful and not turn away the still small voice; it will teach them what to do and where to go; it will yield the fruits of the kingdom. Tell the brethren to keep their hearts open to conviction, so that when the Holy Ghost comes to them, their hearts will be ready to receive it. They can tell the Spirit of the Lord from all other spirits; it will whisper peace and joy to their souls; it will take malice, hatred, strife and all evil from their hearts; and their whole desire will be to do good.’” (Juvenile Instructor, 8 [1873]:114.)

Reference

This last quote comes from a talk titled "Have I received an answer from the Spirit?" and it's by Elder Jay Jensen.

Hope those help ~

MnG

Edited March 22, 2012 by mercyngrace

[inquiringmind]

Sorry I'm not getting back until now, inquiringmind! I was gone all day yesterday, and will be today as well.

I don't think that all peaceful feelings come from God, or that all bad feelings come from the devil. I met with a sister from our ward last night who suffers from severe bouts of depression and suicidal thoughts. This fact would come as a huge shock to anyone who knows her (former primary president, current yw presidency member). She is very self-aware, though, and knows that these thoughts are bogus, despite how earnest they feel. I told her that I think God and the devil are both blamed for a lot of things that aren't their fault . . .

mercyandgrace wrote:

I think this is still difficult, even for the President of the Church. I also firmly believe that it is never a "given" for anybody, no matter how experienced one is or what experiences one has had. And there is great value in this, and I wouldn't trade it for anything, although it is painful and nerve-wracking for us in the moment.

Thank you rongo (and you too Cate.)

[fatherofone]

I believe he is never silent, we just can't hear him because of actions on our part, sin etc....

[inquiringmind]

I believe he is never silent, we just can't hear him because of actions on our part, sin etc....

Have you read this?

Brigham Young’s profound observation, quoted above, that if the Latter-day Saints “settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting . . . their leaders with a reckless confidence” it “would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders” is very meaningful to me personally. There is great value and wisdom in making His children struggle to receive revelation and to discern between revelation from God and their own thoughts and inclinations, because those who learn this are stronger and more discerning by virtue of their struggle. This is even true when we “fail,” when God does not give us revelation, even when we desperately need it and are worthy of it. On my mission, I interviewed a candidate who was worthy to be baptized, but who had a lot of animosity towards the members of his branch (which animosity was, in turn, also felt towards him by the members of the branch). In the interview, we discussed this problem, and he was adamant that he wanted to be baptized, but in a ward far away from his city so nobody from the branch would attend. I told him that this is a huge problem and didn’t bode well for his continued activity in the Church. I told him I would have to consult with the mission president. My mission president told me that he wouldn’t make the decision for me and that I would have to ask God what I should do. I fasted and prayed for guidance and received no answer. I continued fasting and praying through the course of a week, and asked my mission president again for guidance. Again, he told me that I would have to arrive at the decision myself, between me and the Lord.

I learned what it meant to wrestle with the Lord. I had received “yes” and “no” answers to prayers before, but in this case I received nothing. This was really stressful for me and I recorded in my journal that I felt like the weight of the world was on my shoulders and that I felt like I had aged several years during that week. I was worried, because I wondered if I had received an answer, but didn’t recognize or correctly interpret it. I wondered if the fact that I didn’t feel strongly that going forward with the baptism was right was itself a “no” answer. On the other hand, the thought of not approving the baptism was troubling to me as well. I was stuck, and didn’t feel comfortable either way. I ultimately authorized the baptism, which was performed in the other city (and which I never was comfortable with).

I always wondered afterwards if I had done the right thing. I ran into a fellow missionary years later at BYU who had served in that city, and he informed me that the man (whose wife had been an active member for years) was still active in the Church, and that relations between him and the branch were good. In April, 2005 I came into contact with a former member of that branch, who informed me that this brother was now the elders quorum president in that branch! There is value and wisdom in God not always answering prayers we are worthy to receive and even entitled to, because I grew spiritually in my struggle to receive revelation and analyze my thoughts and feelings because of my uncertainty. It helped me be more aware of answers and how they might be made manifest; also, it gave me experience in discerning whether my answer was from God or from me.

I related very well to what Brigham Young taught concerning times when we are worthy to receive an answer and even entitled to one, but don’t receive one: we then do the best we can, and God will support us. I call this “the witness of results:”

If I do not know the will of my Father, and what He requires of me in a certain transaction, if I ask Him to give me wisdom concerning any requirement in life, or in regard to my own course, or that of my friends, my family, my children, or those that I preside over, and get no answer from Him, and then do the very best that my judgment will teach me, He is bound to own and honor that transaction, and He will do so to all intents and purposes.⁶⁰

http://www.fairlds.o...gh-as-dangerous

I also found this interesting.

George Q. Cannon, apostle and counselor in the First Presidency, addressed the importance of individuals learning to distinguish between real revelations and their own thoughts and inclinations, which is a real concern and a valid complaint critics make in response to the threat of modern-day revelation. As President Cannon states, :

There is one thing that we have all got to be very careful about, and that is this: I have seen Elders in my experience that when they got their own spirit moved very much they imagined that it was the Spirit of God, and it was difficult in some instances to tell the difference between the suggestions of their own spirit and the voice of the spirit of God. This is a gift of itself, to be able to distinguish that which suggests itself to our own hearts and that which comes from God. And we are misled sometimes by our own feeling, because of our inability to distinguish between the voice of the Spirit of God and the suggestions of our own spirit.⁵²

Edited March 22, 2012 by inquiringmind

[thesometimesaint]

IMNTBHO God is never silent, but sometimes we just don't listen.

[JDave]

IMNTBHO God is never silent, but sometimes we just don't listen.

So if we listened properly then we would get a constant stream of revelation/inspiration?

[thesometimesaint]

Yep.

[Zakuska]

So if we listened properly then we would get a constant stream of revelation/inspiration?

So then Jesus must not have been listening properly when his father forsook him?

[thesometimesaint]

The lone exception doesn't disprove the rule. Jesus (God the Son) was the only one able to pay the price for us not listening.

[inquiringmind]

The lone exception doesn't disprove the rule. Jesus (God the Son) was the only one able to pay the price for us not listening.

So Brigham Young was just speaking hypothetically here?

If I do not know the will of my Father, and what He requires of me in a certain transaction, if I ask Him to give me wisdom concerning any requirement in life, or in regard to my own course, or that of my friends, my family, my children, or those that I preside over, and get no answer from Him, and then do the very best that my judgment will teach me, He is bound to own and honor that transaction, and He will do so to all intents and purposes.

Why would God be "bound to own and honor your judgement," if the only reason you had to use your "best judgement" was that you weren't "properly listening to Him"?

Edited March 23, 2012 by inquiringmind

[rongo]

So if we listened properly then we would get a constant stream of revelation/inspiration?

thesometimessaint: "Yep."

This runs counter to what all of the Brethren have taught and counseled throughout the years. It also runs counter to experience. In mortality, this fallen world and state, we cannot even potentially and hypothetically attain the level of an "always on" DSL connection to God if we would only listen properly. This would thwart the purpose of coming to earth and eliminate the role of faith.

I also quoted a very useful quote from President Kimball. My first two weeks in the former East Germany (1995) as a missionary, *every* person immediately shut the door on conversation by asking "If there is a God, why does/did ___________ happen (insert atrocity or horrible thing of choice)?" It wasn't a thoughtful question; it was intended to shut the door on conversation. We translated the quote and printed it on slips of paper and asked people from the outset to read and comment on it. While many were atheist and un-religious, everybody agreed with the general point. We then asked them why they thought XYZ happens/happened in the world, and they had all kinds of valid reasons stemming from people's choices, selfishness, etc. Much more effective.

"Should all prayers be immediately answered according to our selfish desires and our limited understanding, then there would be little or no suffering, sorrow, disappointment, or even death, and if these were not, there would also be no joy, success, resurrection, nor eternal life and godhood . . . Being human, we would expel from our lives physical pain and mental anguish and assure ourselves of continual ease and comfort, but if we were to close the doors upon sorrow and distress, we might be excluding our greatest friends and benefactors. Suffering can make saints of people as they learn patience, long-suffering, and self-mastery. The sufferings of our Savior were part of his education" (Spencer W. Kimball, Faith Precedes the Miracle, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1972), pp. 97-98)

If we could potentially get a constant stream of revelation or inspiration, it would go directly against this wise and astute point by President Kimball.

[Kenngo1969]

I completely agree with rongo's post, and I think inquiringmind asks an astute question in post 64. That said, if at least part of thesometimesaint's point is that we live far below our privileges, I think that's true, too.

[Tepui]

Hmmm... I think Rongo, though wise, is confusing "Should all prayers be immediately answered according to our selfish desires and our limited understanding," with God being silent.

Just because Heavenly Father does't answer all our prayers "immediately, according to our selfish desires, etc," doesn't mean He is silent. That's not the definition of Him being silent - your selfish desires being unfulfilled.

That's a very loud answer, actually.

[rongo]

Hmmm... I think Rongo, though wise, is confusing "Should all prayers be immediately answered according to our selfish desires and our limited understanding," with God being silent.

That's a good point. But, in real time and in the thick of things, when we perceive silence or at least the absence of a clear anwer, it's not very comforting or helpful to think, "Well, God isn't *really* being silent." But, it is helpful for our growth . . .

Just because Heavenly Father does't answer all our prayers "immediately, according to our selfish desires, etc," doesn't mean He is silent. That's not the definition of Him being silent - your selfish desires being unfulfilled.

I don't think "selfish" in this context is necessarily a "bad" selfish. If we are worthy, have standing, and desperately need an answer, expecting one is not selfish. Not in my book ----- but maybe I'm just being selfish. I think what this turns out to be in our lives is "My God, My God, why hast thou foresaken me?" moments at the individual level. It wasn't selfish of Jesus to ask that the cup might pass, and it wasn't selfish to mourn for the withdrawal of the Spirit ----- not "bad" selfish, anyway.

Wanting immediate and clear-cut answers is selfish in a sense (as is wanting to eliminate all trial and difficulty, as President Kimball noted), but different by a long way from what we typically think of as selfish.

That's a very loud answer, actually.

Yes, but usually in hindsight, not in the moment in "real time." It is maddening and frustrating in real time.

[thesometimesaint]

Inquiringmind:

The problem, if there is one, isn't with God, but our own stubborness, and lack of really listening.

Sometimes God says "No". Sometimes God says "Not yet". Sometimes God says "Work it out in your own mind". Sometimes God says "Doing the best you can is sufficient".

It all still revelation and inspiration whether we are listening or not.

[ERayR]

Why?

Ether 2:23 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels? Perhaps to allow us to develop our own capabilities, but then maybe we just are not listening.

[ERayR]

Thank you Duncan.

So do you think the people who don't get immediate answers are all morally deficient in some way?

No, but we obviously haven't practiced spiritual communication enough.

[ERayR]

God wants us to learn to function and be responsible for what we do. If he instructed all our movements we wouldn't get much learning would we?

[Maidservant]

No.

[Maidservant]

Okay. When I first saw the title of the thread, I wrote my first answer in the previous post. Without reading through anything else. Then I read and so the following are my answers to other things that were said.

Hmmm... I think Rongo, though wise, is confusing "Should all prayers be immediately answered according to our selfish desires and our limited understanding," with God being silent.

Just because Heavenly Father does't answer all our prayers "immediately, according to our selfish desires, etc," doesn't mean He is silent. That's not the definition of Him being silent - your selfish desires being unfulfilled.

That's a very loud answer, actually.

This is similar to what I was thinking all along during the thread, but finally you got to it before I did, ha ha!

"Is God ever silent?" is not the same question "Does God always tell me what to do?" which is also not the same question as "Does God always answer?" They are all three different questions.

Absolutely God is NEVER silent. There is a symphony outside your door every. single. day. God's symphony. Every star, every blade of grass, every fragrance on the breeze, every streak of the sunset, every page of the scripture, every expression on every human face is God talking to you! Every challenge you experience, every "silence" or "unanswer" from him, every gratitude, every little victory--God's voice is EVERYWHERE AND EVERYTIME!

God is a person, not a thing. Does your mother give you the silent treatment? Does your husband or wife? Does your best friend? For your weaknesses and mistakes? Or do they just want to be with you, because the two of you have a relationship? God is your Father. Yes, maybe he is silent, but that might be because the two of you are just sitting together, enjoying that silence. But why would he stop communicating with you and being with you because of some troubles you may have? That is when he will come closer. I know why people have answered the way they have with their own experiences, and heaven knows I have had similar. In fact, these days I seem to feel too far away from God also, and I keep asking him where he is. So I know that experience, too.

But God does not mete out answers in a binary system of "you are doing wrong, no answer" and "you are doing right, you get an answer". It's not like that. We are here on earth to struggle, yes, and we don't always know how to listen, yes, and sometimes we sabotage ourselves so that we are closing our ears and turning away, yes--but God does not turn away from us. He just doesn't. He's there. Maybe he's not always the grand God with the thousands of angels Elisha saw--maybe he is in the face of my cousin's little girl who was born with birth defects and who is fighting for life now--and probably she won't live for long, so my cousin gets to hold GOD in his arms (his little girl) and BE GOD to her by his love for her. So maybe my cousins prayer PLEASE LET MY LITTLE GIRL LIVE!! won't be "answered" but that little girl's prayer and life is COMPLETELY ANSWERED by being embraced by a dad and a mom who would do anything for her and are suffering with her.

Yes, absolutely God will almost never tell you what to do. He doesn't micromanage. He does help us see more clearly what is right in our choices and our beliefs, or he can. Depending on what the struggle is, and the lesson is, and the purpose for a certain experience in our life. Even then always the answer is there, but sometimes the answer is THROUGH the experience, not aside from it.

'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'

Yes.

Did I quite smoking too late (and is everything I do now too little too late)?

Celebrate your freedom from the smoking. Celebrate like a child. That is all you need to do. I give you permission to do it. Your life is free of smoke in your lungs. Celebrate! Do a happy dance! Don't worry about anything else you wrote. You are choosing to worry on all that, and you simply don't have to. God is clapping his hands and smiling at you and saying, "Yay, inquiringmind, sweetie, you did it! Yay!" It's very simple. Celebrate yourself for this.

My own thoughts as to why that is commonly the case, is that the good Teacher never talks during the test.

So if we listened properly then we would get a constant stream of revelation/inspiration?

As someone else said . . . absolutely. There should never be a moment without the bathing of the Holy Spirit. But the revelation is not what you are thinking. The revelation isn't: "The distance from here to Kolob is {blank number of light years}" or like that. The revelation is "Call your mom and tell her you forgive her for the rough times in your childhood." "Take a minute a play with the dog." "Don't forget to put your name on the Relief Society dish." "Smile. Release your cares. You are in the temple." And then from time to time come some more profound ones--but not necessarily more important. What could be more important than playing with a puppy?

So then Jesus must not have been listening properly when his father forsook him?

The "forsaking" test is a test for all beings. Mortality in its entirety IS the "forsaking test". All human beings who wish to become celestial must pass through the forsaking (at least once, although most of us probably would say it happens more often than that). We must become saviors and willing to act upon good on our own agency whether or not we experience our Father with us or not.

And the fact that Jesus got that WAS a revelation in and of itself.

[JDave]

If God not being silent includes allowing us to figure things out on our own and specifically not telling us what to do, and if it includes difficulty hearing God or the Spirit due to our fallen condition, and if it includes wondering where God is at times because we feel forsaken, then I guess you could say that God is never silent.

I long for the day when the Holy Ghost is my "constant companion", but I don't envision that to be a time when I am constantly told/inspired what to do.