Does God Call People Into Other Churches?

[cinepro]

"The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God's light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.... Our message therefore is one of special love and concern for the eternal Welfare of all men and women, regardless of religious belief, race, or nationality, knowing that we are truly brothers and sisters because we are sons and daughters of the same Eternal Father."

Note that all of those people pre-date Joseph Smith.

I doubt anyone in the Church Office Building thinks Charles Taze Russell or L. Ron Hubbard were being inspired by God when they started their churches, no matter how many good works their followers do.

Edited February 20, 2012 by cinepro

[Calm]

I do not think that God leads an active LDS to another Church.

If a member is active, it generally means that she or he is getting enough spiritual and other needs met to maintain the interest and energy level to stay active. I would agree then that is it unlikely that an active LDS would be led out of the Faith. I also don't see someone being led out of the Church for the benefit of others as there are likely plenty for the Lord to work with 'out' there that have already established the connections and background knowledge, etc. that will help her or him become an effective worker for the Lord for bringing others to the Faith in a way that they can live it at this time.

I can well imagine OTOH a member who might have internal difficulties that he views (rightly or wrongly) are a result of or connected to his membership in this FAITH for whatever reason, and it might happen that his anger, resentment, despair, etc. may become so strong and overwhelming to the point that his soul is filled with negativity drowning out the Spirit. At that point it seems the most likely outcome without something dramatic happening is that if the member continues in the LDS faith community, it could be damaging to his soul due to his negative worldview that prevents a clear vision of all that goes on here, both good and bad...the end result he is unable to engage in forgiveness of self and others or she is unable to see a way out of her despair.

A loving Father in my view would look for any resources that would help his children bring themselves out of that pit of hell and if the ladder up leads to another community of faith, I think he would still be there steadying the steps up, whispering encouragement, doing all that he can to get his children back on the safe side of the path.

I am always amused by the number of those individuals who refuse to believe that someone who believes in a "One True Faith" could possible believe that the Lord would lead someone away from that Faith, but the world is filled with diverse people at diverse places in their spiritual progress and with diverse desires of how far down they want to take the path right now. I see no reason for our Father to push one of his children who has no desire at this time to take a walk of faith into joining LDS....that would be a setup for failure, not exaltation and is neither wise or loving.

It would also create a huge logistic nightmare on trying to maintain pure doctrine, faith and religion and to care sufficiently for all if our organization was flooded by each and every one who sought out direction from the Lord no matter what that direction was. The LDS Church is not a one size fits all organization or community. Also at this point there are answers we don't have that some people are looking for that it is possible they may find elsewhere because they share a more common language with another faith or even nonfaith community.

I consider any missionary to be doing the Lord's work if the way they teach bring others to God....whether through baptism in the LDS faith, strengthening their faith and commitment to seeking the Lord in their current faith, or even choosing to travel outside of organized religion but still seeking the things of God and attempting to help others do the same. I can even see the Spirit leading an individual into examining atheism for a time if it is necessary for him to put aside some traditional but false beliefs that have interfered with learning higher truths, sort of create a clean slate for the Spirit to write on anew. The Lord's work is not just about LDS baptisms but about washing clean men's souls and then presenting them with so much more.

Edited February 20, 2012 by calmoriah

[Robert F. Smith]

Alan,

Great post. I see nothing wrong with God calling people to other religions if they can help more people by doing so. For example, the Roman Catholic Church has extensive infrastructure in India. Mother Teresa probably wouldn't have been able to receive the support she needed from the LDS Church to run her 610 missions in India.

Undoubtedly true. However, the LDS Church welfare system has for many years channeled millions of dollars into Catholic Relief for distribution in areas where they (and not the LDS) have a distribution infrastructure. The LDS Church is very ecumenical in that respect.

[Robert F. Smith]

I have always been pretty open to the idea of God inspiring Christians of many denominations. I think of William Wilberforce, Eric Liddle, Billy Graham and many others. I have no problem with the concept of God inspiring Christians in situ. But what about God actually directing people into various Christian churches? In effect, calling them to their ministry there. I would be very interested in your views and insights.

“The reformers were pioneers, blazing wilderness trails in a desperate search for those lost points of reference which, they felt, when found would lead mankind back to the truth Jesus taught.

“John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, Jan Hus, Zwingli, Knox, Calvin, and Tyndale all pioneered the period of the Reformation. Significant was the declaration of Tyndale to his critics: ‘I will cause a boy that driveth the plough shall know more of the scripture than thou doest’ [see Roger Hillas, “The History of the Book,” Washington Post, Apr. 10, 1996].

“Such were the teachings and lives of the great reformers. Their deeds were heroic, their contributions many, their sacrifices great—but they did not restore the gospel of Jesus Christ.” —President Thomas S. Monson, First Counselor in the First Presidency, “They Showed the Way,” Ensign, May 1997, 51.

[Robert F. Smith]

The only inspiration God should be giving anyone when it comes to churches is "Find the nearest LDS ward and join it." If it's anything less than that, then we have made some serious mistakes in gauging the degree to which God cares about our doctrine and ordinances.

How does this apply to people living in areas where there is no local ward or branch, nor indeed many nominal Christians? If fact, people in the most populous areas of the world, India and China, know little of so-called "Christianity," and may come from quite alien traditions.

What of Jews? Are they a special category as the "gathering of Israel" continues apace? Is God present in their synagogues? Is the priesthood power of the Aaronic priesthood yet in force among them?

[Jeff K.]

Does God call or inspire people to different kingdoms? Or do they gravitate to the kingdom they are most comfortable in, all the while receiving inspiration for their best choices?

[zerinus]

We're not talking about people doing good things and acts of service, both of which I'm sure God appreciates and encourages.

The question is whether or not He would lead a person to join another church instead of joining the LDS Church.

I think that in an exceptional situation, if someone is uniquely placed to do more good as a Catholic than a Mormon, that God would not stand in the way of his becoming a Catholic (or some other religion) rather than a Mormon.

Edited February 20, 2012 by zerinus

[jwhitlock]

I disagree. We are often too linear in our thinking. First, man is that he may have joy. I know some LDS who lost their testimonies, but still believed in Jesus Christ and, thankfully, they found another spiritual home that continued to lead them into a stronger relationship with God. Our Father is not finished with an individual just because they join another church, he continues to guide and inspire. In addition, God uses people in all religions to do his will. Some people just cannot live as LDS for whatever reason and God leads them to a religion that may help them along their path.

I do not think that God leads an active LDS to another Church. His purpose is to bring about our salvation and he never stops working to bring us as far as possible into his Kingdom.

God doesn't lead people in everything they do. Should someone leave the Church, God isn't going to lead them into something else; when they're ready to turn again to Him and seek him, then he'll start to guide them again in whatever circumstance they now find themselves in. In the meantime, they've decided on another church on their own, without Him. He'll work with them in any situation to the extent that they allow HIm.

Just because they're in another church doesn't actually mean they were guided there.

The principle I'm look at is that God will work with people at whatever level they allow Him to. People limit themselves and cut themselves off from God; when they're ready to work with him, He'll give them step by step guidance back towards him - even if they've pushed themselves further back than they were before.

[Storm Rider]

J, I think we may be saying or at least thinking the same thing. I don't believe that our Father is the kind of God that directs every move a person makes; that conflicts with too much of the truths and principles of the gospel. I do agree with what someone asked above; we gravitate to the degree of righteousness we are comfortable with. It is what we most often choose to do and not do. The result is the same and we will rise to kingdom or glory we are most comfortable with.

The choice is ours. Some just cannot live the gospel of Christ fully. Regardless, God will still use them where ever they are to fulfill his will. The Gospel in its fulness is one of Exaltation; some are just not interested or comfortable with that. Some may be comfortable with it and then pull back, others may walk away from it only later to return.

[jwhitlock]

J, I think we may be saying or at least thinking the same thing. I don't believe that our Father is the kind of God that directs every move a person makes; that conflicts with too much of the truths and principles of the gospel. I do agree with what someone asked above; we gravitate to the degree of righteousness we are comfortable with. It is what we most often choose to do and not do. The result is the same and we will rise to kingdom or glory we are most comfortable with.

The choice is ours. Some just cannot live the gospel of Christ fully. Regardless, God will still use them where ever they are to fulfill his will. The Gospel in its fulness is one of Exaltation; some are just not interested or comfortable with that. Some may be comfortable with it and then pull back, others may walk away from it only later to return.

Yep, pretty much thinking in the same direction.

[Alan]

Many thanks for all of your thoughts on this thread. There are some very interesting insights.

I do have a problem with the idea that we "gravitate to the degree of righteousness we are comfortable with" because in my experience we LDS do not have a monopoly on righteousness. I feel there are examples of people in other churches who are more righteous than many or all of us.

I have always been impressed by D&C 1:17-18: "Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments; And also gave commandments to others, that they should proclaim these things unto the world......." It occured to me many years ago that these "others" were people not of our faith but were placed in positions where they can bring people to faith most effectively. At least that is how it reads to me. For me the restoration was about a lot more than the establishment of the priesthood or even the church. It includes those things of course, but it is much more than that. Who preaches original sin nowadays? Who teaches that unbaptised infants go to hell these days? In my view the whole of christendom is moving towards restored truths and this has nothing to do with us and everything to do with a spirit of enlightenment, perhaps I should call it the Spirit of the Restoration, infiltrating the churches. To do this the Lord has had to place people who are receptive and who can articulate these truths and reach many people. Many more than we can reach.

I am also aware of a former Presbyterian minister who has joined the church and served in many positions, but who testifies to this day that he was most definately called by God to be a Presbyterian minister, and that same voice also called him into the church.

It's an interesting subject but I suspect we all agree it's not black and white.

[CV75]

It's an interesting subject but I suspect we all agree it's not black and white.

For example, God placing people (“Thou couldest have no power …except it were given thee from above”--John 19:11 / “…he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding”--Dan 2:21) is not the same as being “called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.”

[Lightbearer]

I have always been pretty open to the idea of God inspiring Christians of many denominations. I think of William Wilberforce, Eric Liddle, Billy Graham and many others. I have no problem with the concept of God inspiring Christians in situ. But what about God actually directing people into various Christian churches? In effect, calling them to their ministry there. I would be very interested in your views and insights.

I am sure this response will not be very politically correct on this board, however I must answer NO, I do not believe that God inspires anyone to join the other Churches either Christian or non-christian. It has been stated correctly that the Protestant Revolution was inspired to break the iron yoke of spiritual bondage inflicted on the world because of the great apostatcy, that the establishment of freedom of religion by estalishing the US Constitution and other reforms in other nations are inspired of God and provided a foundation for the restoration of the fullness of the Gospel. But I do not believe God directs anyone away from the Church He has restored. I think it rather obvious that God could not declare the fullness of the Gospel and then turn around and tell truth seekers that any other Church was established by Him or was authorized to preach and perform the ordinances of His Kingdom. I know the Prophet Joseph said that there was truth in all churches, that is not the point, the point is would God inspire anyone to join another Church than the one He personally established?

The Prophet Joseph also said this:

(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith Section Five 1842-43, p.270)"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world."

[Damien the Leper]

I certainly hope that not all my non-LDS friends will be dying to be LDS in the next life. I appreciate their response to God through diverse religious communities. A friend who is Catholic isn't 'doing Catholocism' now just to become LDS at another time. I don't think God works like that. Such an attitude is speculatory and is opinion due to truth claims.

As I possibly make my transition to Community of Christ, I would hope that it would not be a stepping stone toward going back to being LDS. Not because I have any animosity towards LDS people and their church, but because I no longer have the 'testimony' I thought I had.

Please forgive my irreverence.

[KevinG]

Fullness is not the same as exclusivity.

[zerinus]

I certainly hope that not all my non-LDS friends will be dying to be LDS in the next life. I appreciate their response to God through diverse religious communities. A friend who is Catholic isn't 'doing Catholocism' now just to become LDS at another time. I don't think God works like that. Such an attitude is speculatory and is opinion due to truth claims.

As I possibly make my transition to Community of Christ, I would hope that it would not be a stepping stone toward going back to being LDS. Not because I have any animosity towards LDS people and their church, but because I no longer have the 'testimony' I thought I had.

Please forgive my irreverence.

D&C 84:

42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

There is only one Church that this commandment applies to, and that is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Nobody forces anyone to join any church, but there is only one Church through whom salvation can be administered, "and few there be that find it" (Matthew 7:14).

Edited February 25, 2012 by zerinus

[Tepui]

I was called for a day into a nearby Baptist Church. I was a poll worker on an election day.