Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I approach this topic with all sincerity. The scriptures are clear with the way the world views believers in God and all faiths endure this burden. We know from the Bible that some “will kill us (believers) and think they do God a favor”. From Latter-day Saints “Standard Works”, it is almost a point of doctrine that we will be hated and persecuted for our faith…for our belief in the Book of Mormon. It does not matter if you think Joseph Smith is a Prophet, this is one thing he knew and got correctly in the Book of Mormon as well as his own writings. His very murder and the rape and murder of many others show, that if nothing else, he understood his fellow men very well. Mormons have been robbed, beaten and, imprisoned just as Christians of old.I have had prejudicial remarks and actions taken against me personally. Once while my family was at Church for my Father-in-law’s funeral, the minister (in the old Southern tradition of loud sermons) pointed at my family yelling concerning our beliefs during his sermon. When my Mother-in-law asked me to pray at the funeral home prior to leaving for the Church, my brother and sister-in-law walked out in a fit of anger. Our Ward building was broken into once and littered with anti-Mormon pamphlets. I have been open confronted by people when they hear I am LDS with extreme hatred; one accruing this weekend.To even mention this causes people to become angry and seeking to belittle us by calling us whiners and play the persecution card. In LDS belief it will be this hatred of the world that will cause us to “flee unto Zion”. Our leaders have warned of this for two centuries now. The other day while reading a thread on; “What would you do if a Mormon were elected President? One of the posters said he would rather be dead than have a Mormon in office…others warning that he (whatever Mormon elected) would think he was a God, because we are all taught “we are gods”…that was Christ who taught this in the Bible…certainly odd.So it would seem that Joseph got a bulls-eye here…it is a fashionable, acceptable hatred and prejudice in America today.Edit to add:I did not pose this question before so I am adding it for those who may yet comment…Why does pointing out what we as Mormons have and do experience anger so many? Also why do so many have the need to compare out suffering with others who have suffered? Edited January 10, 2012 by Bill “Papa” Lee
thesometimesaint Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Pa Pa:I'm still hopeful that someday the world, if not agree with us, will respect our rights to believe as we choose.
blackstrap Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 The history of those who are/were a "chosen" people, is filled with examples of persecution even unto death. A faith as benign as the Bahia is reviled in some areas of the world. It is the nature and disposition of men....etc.
LeSellers Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I'm still hopeful that someday the world, if not agree with us, will respect our rights to believe as we choose.That will happen a while after the two prophets in Jerusalem arise from the dead.Probably not a minute earlier, even in the most "liberal" (in the true meaning of the word) societies.Lehi Edited January 9, 2012 by LeSellers 1
Storm Rider Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 It is something that all those who follow Jesus Christ will endure. Membership in any Chrsistian church does not guarantee or shield one from persecution, but it is certain for those who are true disciplies of Christ. By their fruits ye shall know them is a excellent tool in identifying who follows Christ and who does not.
thesometimesaint Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Lehi:Maybe I'm just on a fools errand, but I'm hoping for sometime before that. Edited January 9, 2012 by thesometimesaint
LeSellers Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I'm hoping for sometime before that."Hope" is an interesting word: it can mean either of two very different, albeit related, things.The true meaning of hope is illustrated by the sentence, "In Christ is our hope." Christ is real, He will redeem us, etc. "The Great White Hope", a one-time boxing legend, was a hope like this because it was reasonably possible that James J. Jeffries would beat Peter Jackson and Jack Johnson. He did the former but failed in the latter.The second meaning of hope is the "Hail, Mary" pass type: no real chance of success, but it's better'n nothing. This "forlorn hope" is rarely based on any meaningful evidence.I believe your "hope" that we Saints will be left alone to practice our religion as we please is of the second type. It may happen, but there's no reason at all to take that position. The evidence is significantly and seriously stacked in the opposite direction.Lehi
Saints Alive Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I don't think Mormon hatred is as widespred and acceptable as it seems. It just happens that those who do hate mormonism are very vocal about it. Most people, whether they find our beliefs acceptable or not, care enough to bother us.Most modern mormons have enjoyed not being in the spotlight for most of their lives, I wonder if we are ready for our religion to be in the spotlight again?
LeSellers Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I don't think Mormon hatred is as widespred and acceptable as it seems. It just happens that those who do hate mormonism are very vocal about it. Most people, whether they find our beliefs acceptable or not, care enough to bother us.But they do not confront those who do, asking for civil discourse and "tolerance" (in the true meaning of the word—which is not "acceptance", as some "pleading" for "tolerance" seem to think).The prophecies are true. We are a "little flock" and they hate us because they hate Him.Lehi Edited January 9, 2012 by LeSellers
Sky Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 The best thing we can do to counter hatred or prejudice against Mormonism is to be a friend towards our non-member acquaintances. In my experience, the more they know us on a more human, personal level, the harder it becomes for them to be suspicious of us. Of course there will always be some people who don’t like us or our religion very much, but there are also plenty of fair-minded and reasonable people out there. We should help them to better understand what we believe, but we should also be careful to not go overboard in imposing our beliefs on others. In reality, we are pretty normal people who are doing our best to follow Christ’s gospel, although some of our doctrines and practices are indeed different.
Saints Alive Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 But they do not confront those who do, asking for civil discourse and "tolerance" (in the true meaning of the word—which is not "acceptance", as some "pleading" for "tolerance" seem to think).The prophecies are true. We are a "little flock" and they hate us because they hate Him.LehiMost of the Hatred I have seen (and experienced) has come from very devout evangelical Christians; usually of the Baptist variety. I refuse to believe that they Hate Christ, they may be imperfect practitioners of his word, but I don’t doubt their sincere love of Christ. They don't ask for civil discourse because they know that the ones being uncivil are generally uncivil toward most groups they disagree with.
Jaybear Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 But they do not confront those who do, asking for civil discourse and "tolerance" (in the true meaning of the word—which is not "acceptance", as some "pleading" for "tolerance" seem to think).The prophecies are true. We are a "little flock" and they hate us because they hate Him.LehiYou claim that you want to address this topic with all sincerity, yet you rely on anecdotal examples to support your assertion that "they hate us because they hate Him."What then is the point, if you already have your answer?
Sky Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Mormons have been robbed, beaten and, imprisoned just as Christians of old.I think this was more of a problem in the early days of the church (with Joseph Smith). I don't really see this happening today. The objections to our religion today tend to be more of a psychological nature. On a side note, Pres. Monson recently made the top 10 list of most admired men in the country. Could this possibly mean he is doing something wrong? In my opinion, no.
LeSellers Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) You claim that you want to address this topic with all sincerity, Where did I do that?Do you have me confused with "Pa Pa"?Lehi Edited January 9, 2012 by LeSellers
Jaybear Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Where did I do that?Do you have me confused with "Pa Pa"?LehiYou are right. You have made no pretense to address this topic with sincerity. It was Pa Pa.My bad.
california boy Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 While you make a strong case for Mormons not being treated fairly, couldn't you say the same thing about a host of minorities. Jews certainly qualify your criteria. 6 million pails in comparison to what has historically happened to Mormons. Blacks certainly qualify with all the lynching and intolerance shown to them and to some extent still is shown to them. There were those that also stated that if a black man became president they would rather die. Even the Irish Catholics have a history of being brutally raped, murdered and persecuted when they came to this country. The protestants also had their stories of brutality. It just happened longer ago. I would say it still happens in areas of the world where they are a minority. Muslins are attacked regulary simply because they are Muslins.Now days, Mormons are not murdered very often simply because they are Mormons. But there are still minority groups in this day and age that are brutally murdered because of who they are or belief. Perhapse what we as followers of Christ should consentrate on is fighting ignorance and brutality no matter what group it is directed towards. It is not a Mormon thing, it seems to be a human thing. And i. like Lehi, hope for the day when not just Mormons but mankind in general will treat each other with love and compassion.
Freedom Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 The criticisms and attacks directed at mormons pail in comparison to those directred at Muslims, Jehovahs Witnesses and Christian Scientists. I think of the congresswoman who said that mormonism scares her but, in so many words, not as much as the muslim faith. She appologized to the mormons but not the muslims, and there was hardly an outcry that she made no appology to the latter. LDS buildings do get vandelized from time to time, but muslim mosques get burned. Perhaps ones perspective or experience depends on where they live, but this is what I have observed in the media and in my own experience.
Nofear Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I think of the congresswoman who said that mormonism scares her but, in so many words, not as much as the muslim faith.Santorum said a very similar thing in December 2007:Would the potential attraction to Mormonism by simply having a Mormon in the White House threaten traditional Christianity by leading more Americans to a church that some Christians believe misleadingly calls itself Christian, is an active missionary church, and a dangerous cult?How does a candidate possibly address such concerns?Assume for the sake of argument that there are valid considerations. Shouldn't we look at everything about the candidate, including positions on the issues that could have even a more dramatic impact on Christianity than his personal faith? What about the candidate's willingness to confront the threat of radical Islam's war against Christianity, or the current efforts to undermine our Judeo-Christian culture and even our religious freedom? Like most voters, my faith matters more than politics, but we are electing someone to the most important political position in the world. I'm more concerned about losing our children to jihadis or a materialistic culture than losing them to Mormonism.(The Elephant in the Room | Mitt Romney and religion; politics and faith)Caution: moderators dislike politics in the forums!
LeSellers Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 You are right. You have made no pretense to address this topic with sincerity.I have been very sincere, but I am not "open-minded" on the subject. I have a preconception, and I will not be budged therefrom: the prophets have told us, since Moses to our own day, that those who worship the almighty God according to His precepts and commandments will be hated. Jesus said, explicitly, that the reason the world hates us is because it hates Him.I take Him at His word and they at theirs.My bad.I agree wholeheartedly.Lehi
LeSellers Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 And i. like Lehi, hope for the day when not just Mormons but mankind in general will treat each other with love and compassion.I share that prayer (not "hope", though, because I believe it to be a vain hope), but I did not express it here. I believe you have confused me with thesometimesaint.Lehi
california boy Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 The criticisms and attacks directed at mormons pail in comparison to those directred at Muslims, Jehovahs Witnesses and Christian Scientists. I think of the congresswoman who said that mormonism scares her but, in so many words, not as much as the muslim faith. She appologized to the mormons but not the muslims, and there was hardly an outcry that she made no appology to the latter. LDS buildings do get vandelized from time to time, but muslim mosques get burned. Perhaps ones perspective or experience depends on where they live, but this is what I have observed in the media and in my own experience.You bring up a good point. There are those that are rabidly against Obama because they THINK he might possibly be Muslin. And when his distractors want to inflame their argument they resort to calling him by his middle Muslin sounding name. Not a lot different than the shanagans engaged by the distractors of Mormonism.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 9, 2012 Author Posted January 9, 2012 Pa Pa:I'm still hopeful that someday the world, if not agree with us, will respect our rights to believe as we choose.My prayer as well. You know I live just about 60 miles from the place Elder Joseph Standing was murdered by some Southern Baptist men (to do God a favor). David O McKay had a monument built there. It is between Atlanta and Tennessee. BTW, the men were never tried. His companion who was not killed later went on to become President of the 12.
california boy Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I share that prayer (not "hope", though, because I believe it to be a vain hope), but I did not express it here. I believe you have confused me with thesometimesaint.Lehilol boy are you getting misquoted in this thread arent you. I did mean thesometimesaint. But I am not surprised that you have similar feelings.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 9, 2012 Author Posted January 9, 2012 I don't think Mormon hatred is as widespred and acceptable as it seems. It just happens that those who do hate mormonism are very vocal about it. Most people, whether they find our beliefs acceptable or not, care enough to bother us.Most modern mormons have enjoyed not being in the spotlight for most of their lives, I wonder if we are ready for our religion to be in the spotlight again?People are just more sophisticated about it now. They seek to kill Joseph over and over again.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 9, 2012 Author Posted January 9, 2012 While you make a strong case for Mormons not being treated fairly, couldn't you say the same thing about a host of minorities. Jews certainly qualify your criteria. 6 million pails in comparison to what has historically happened to Mormons. Blacks certainly qualify with all the lynching and intolerance shown to them and to some extent still is shown to them. There were those that also stated that if a black man became president they would rather die. Even the Irish Catholics have a history of being brutally raped, murdered and persecuted when they came to this country. The protestants also had their stories of brutality. It just happened longer ago. I would say it still happens in areas of the world where they are a minority. Muslins are attacked regulary simply because they are Muslins.Now days, Mormons are not murdered very often simply because they are Mormons. But there are still minority groups in this day and age that are brutally murdered because of who they are or belief. Perhapse what we as followers of Christ should consentrate on is fighting ignorance and brutality no matter what group it is directed towards. It is not a Mormon thing, it seems to be a human thing. And i. like Lehi, hope for the day when not just Mormons but mankind in general will treat each other with love and compassion.Yes you can say that of these groups...I am not keeping score. But most of these groups have had enough and have many who will come to their aid. Every six months people drill holes in our Holy books and drag them around yelling and carrying signs. Accosting our wives and children telling them they are going to hell. Almost without notice to the world...think of this at a synagogue or Black Church...it would be condemned the world over.
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