Morality And The Presidency

[california boy]

We are at the beginning of the nomination season for each party. I am wondering how important morality is when Mormons choose who they want to lead this country. How important is it to you that the president is Christian, Mormon, goes to church, prays about his decisions, etc. How important is moral character to you? Could you vote for someone who had an affair when married? Is the candidates political philosophy separate from his religious philosophy?

Just your thoughts in general on the spiritual side of choosing a president. Who do you think was the most religious president we ever had? Did it help our country? Who was the least religious president? Did his lack of faith harm the country. How close is integrity and religion connected together? Lots to talk about. Do you pray about who you should vote for? What do you think.

Obviously, please keep this thread from being politically specific. No campaigning.

[Stargazer]

I consider it more important that the candidate in question conforms closer to my political/sociological/economic viewpoints than morality. However, if the candidate's morality suggests that either (a) he or she would not continue to hold to the important positions so far as politically feasible, or (b) whether the candidate (in a primary contest) would be electable if he or she won through to the primary, then that might become more important.

For example, I find myself in a bit of a quandary with regard to the current Republican front runners, Gingrich and Romney. I actually like both of them, but which one would be more likely to prevail in the general election? Gingrich has personal moral baggage, which baggage I don't consider as being disqualifying, personally, but would it become a significant issue in the general? Romney is a boy scout, so no problems there, but the Mormon factor and his somewhat, I don't know, non-exciting personality might become an issue, or put the voters to sleep.

I live in pretty much Democratic party heaven. A Dem runs means a Dem wins. Since they don't put up any Dem I could in good conscience vote for, the morality of any such candidate is unimportant. Amazingly enough, we actually have a Hispanic Tea Party Republican as our congresswoman, and she may prevail again, but it wouldn't surprise me if she didn't, given the history of this congressional district. She is quite moral and so on, and her political credentials are well-nigh perfect from my point of view, so no contest.

Does this constitute a good answer to your question?

[Calm]

If a person betrays the trust of those closest to him or her for personal gain, why would they not do so again with total strangers?

[zerinus]

We are at the beginning of the nomination season for each party. I am wondering how important morality is when Mormons choose who they want to lead this country. How important is it to you that the president is Christian, Mormon, goes to church, prays about his decisions, etc. How important is moral character to you? Could you vote for someone who had an affair when married? Is the candidates political philosophy separate from his religious philosophy?

Just your thoughts in general on the spiritual side of choosing a president. Who do you think was the most religious president we ever had? Did it help our country? Who was the least religious president? Did his lack of faith harm the country. How close is integrity and religion connected together? Lots to talk about. Do you pray about who you should vote for? What do you think.

Obviously, please keep this thread from being politically specific. No campaigning.

On the issues of law and government, LDS are, or should be, guided by the following counsel given by revelation to the Church:

D&C 98:

4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.

9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

10 Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil.

11 And I give unto you a commandment, that ye shall forsake all evil and cleave unto all good, that ye shall live by every word which proceedeth forth out of the mouth of God.

12 For he will give unto the faithful line upon line, precept upon precept; and I will try you and prove you herewith.

This does not mean that candidates should be Mormons. It doesn’t even mean that they should be Christians. All that is required is that they should be wise, honest, and good men; and such men can be found in all churches and religions.

As regards whether they may have done something wrong in their lives, such as having had an “extramarital affair” for example, I think that we should judge them as they stand now, not on what they did before. If it appears that they have mended their ways, and put their house in order, then what happened before shouldn’t matter; but if they haven’t, and we determine that that makes them untrustworthy, then we shouldn’t vote for them. That I believe is according to the spirit of what the Lord has revealed.

[thesometimesaint]

california boy:

I don't vote for or against anyone because of their personal morality. That is between them and their God. Their public morality is something else again.

Most religious in modern US history(Post Nixon)? Jimmy Carter

Least religious in Modern US history(Post Nixon)? Ronald Reagan

Most religious in all of US history? Abraham Lincoln

Least religious in all of US history? Richard Nixon

I pray to make a wise decision on whom to vote for. I try to center my choices on those whom will make the best decisions for my country, and not necessarily whom is the most religious.

[Stargazer]

A new book, "A First-Rate Madness: Uncovering the Links Between Leadership and Mental Illness" makes the proposal that the best leaders to have during a crisis are those who are a little bit nuts. So maybe this should be a consideration.

An example from the book (which i have not read, merely listened to an interview between Michael Medved and the author), is that of US Civil War generals McClellan and Sherman. McClellan was a sane, well-balanced man who wrote the West Point text on warfare, and whose military carreer was very sucessful, yet whose Civil War record was extremely poor. Sherman was a manic depressive who outfought pretty much everyone whom he faced. The author discusses national leaders as well, and presents Churchill, who fought depression and self-doubt all his life, and at the end of his life was convinced he hadn't accomplished anything, yet was one the most successful and important leaders of the 20th century.

In line with the theory of the author then, both Obama and Romney are way too sane and confident characters to be good presidents in a time of crisis, whereas Gingrich with all his baggage and unevenness may be the best choice in the moment.

Personally, since my wife has said from time to time that she thinks I am nuts, I think they should elect ME. I would fix everything, you bet.

[thesometimesaint]

Being a little nuts may help. However I wouldn't press that one too far.

[CV75]

We are at the beginning of the nomination season for each party. I am wondering how important morality is when Mormons choose who they want to lead this country. How important is it to you that the president is Christian, Mormon, goes to church, prays about his decisions, etc. How important is moral character to you? Could you vote for someone who had an affair when married? Is the candidates political philosophy separate from his religious philosophy?

Just your thoughts in general on the spiritual side of choosing a president. Who do you think was the most religious president we ever had? Did it help our country? Who was the least religious president? Did his lack of faith harm the country. How close is integrity and religion connected together? Lots to talk about. Do you pray about who you should vote for? What do you think.

Obviously, please keep this thread from being politically specific. No campaigning.

Moral character is a consideration in my decision, to the extent I have information or develop an impression about a candidate’s moral character. It is not so strong a factor that I would seek out such information about the candidate. All other things equal, I would vote for the candidate I perceive as having the greater moral character.

I do think that personal morality is an important element of leadership. I view some political planks as having a moral basis or aspect to them, and so I vote on a candidate’s stance on these topics. Some issues are more important than others so I usually employ some sort of compromise when a win-win is impossible.

A candidate’s religion or religious public/private practice is not important to me. An LDS candidate certainly gets my attention, but I think I am objective enough to not allow that to color my vote. However, if a candidate or his positions were anti-religion, I would see that as a strong negative, and if they were pro-religion, I would see that as a strong plus.

I have no problem with a candidate saying he has prayed about his decisions, but I do have a problem with a candidate saying God told him to do such-and-such (that's just bad politics!). I have no problem with a candidate invoking God to bless the nation and its citizens in times of distress, but I do have a problem with a candidate defining God's will for the nation outside of clear references to its constitution and other founding documents. I have no problem with a candidate citing scripture from any source that helps me understand his definition of the issue or his motivation, solution, stance or orientation.

In general, I can’t see a candidate help but have his political and religious philosophies impact each other. The balance or outcome of these complimentary drivers would manifest themselves in the leadership qualities and political solutions we are voting for.

I have no opinion on the correlation between the religiosity of US Presidents and their effectiveness. I think ultimately the peace and prosperity of the nation rests more upon the morality of its active voting citizens than on its leaders.

[california boy]

This does not mean that candidates should be Mormons. It doesn’t even mean that they should be Christians. All that is required is that they should be wise, honest, and good men; and such men can be found in all churches and religions.

I heard on the news that they were not going to have a nativity scene in Washington this year. It was not for religious reasons, it was because they could not find three wise men, they were still looking for a virgin, but they did have plenty of asses for the stable.

[thesometimesaint]

[Sky]

I want somebody in the presidency that can put our country back to work. Unemployment is unacceptably high, which I see as a moral issue. The economy is in the tank. I want somebody who is honest and genuine and not afraid to speak the truth, regardless of the political repercussions. I have my own ideas about who is better suited to solve our country's problems, but I won’t say who. But nobody is perfect. I look for where they stand on issues that are important to me before I look at things like religious affiliation and devotion.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Sky

[Loran Blood]

Honest and wise.

Now that's a tall order in the political realm.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Loran Blood

[Loran Blood]

I want somebody in the presidency that can put our country back to work. Unemployment is unacceptably high, which I see as a moral issue. The economy is in the tank. I want somebody who is honest and genuine and not afraid to speak the truth, regardless of the political repercussions. I have my own ideas about who is better suited to solve our country's problems, but I won’t say who. But nobody is perfect. I look for where they stand on issues that are important to me before I look at things like religious affiliation and devotion.

Economics (or political economy, perhaps one better) involves a number of ethical issues and quandaries. The nature, kind, scope, and form of taxation has serious moral aspects. The ethics of money production is a key question. The vast creation of inflation and debt by the state has deep moral implications. The fomenting of class envy/warfare is morally weighted.

A real problem here, I think, is when we want to hold out for the perfect candidate; someone who espouses as many of our own beliefs and views as possible, and who also does not bring unacceptable personal baggage into the presidency. What do we do? I'm not sure myself. The best among the lot may not be "the best," but may be far preferable to what obtains at present. How to choose?

Another tall order indeed.

[Sky]

The problem I have with praying about whom to vote for is that if God prompted me to vote for a certain candidate, another person could come along and say that God prompted them to vote for the opposing candidate. Who would be right? Or would both of us be full of hot air? It makes it hard to determine who God really wants to win in any given election.

And lest I forget to mention, the LDS Church is neutral with regards to political parties and candidates.

The best approach, I think, is to study the issues out in our mind and reach our own conclusions about who we think is the best candidate. God will let us make up our own mind, even if who we choose to vote for may not be the best choice. I don’t think we will be condemned for thinking through the issues and making the most informed decision possible. We can always ask God to confirm our decision, but unless we get a really bad feeling about it, it is probably fine. He will leave it up to us.

[Storm Rider]

We are at the beginning of the nomination season for each party. I am wondering how important morality is when Mormons choose who they want to lead this country. How important is it to you that the president is Christian, Mormon, goes to church, prays about his decisions, etc. How important is moral character to you? Could you vote for someone who had an affair when married? Is the candidates political philosophy separate from his religious philosophy?

Just your thoughts in general on the spiritual side of choosing a president. Who do you think was the most religious president we ever had? Did it help our country? Who was the least religious president? Did his lack of faith harm the country. How close is integrity and religion connected together? Lots to talk about. Do you pray about who you should vote for? What do you think.

Obviously, please keep this thread from being politically specific. No campaigning.

I don't want to know the religious affiliation of any candidate; in fact, it does not play a role in my evaluation of any candidate. I am a fiscal and social conservative that thinks that our nation needs national health care, no lobbyists, free education through the undergraduate level of college (which includes all trade school programs), and citizen politicians. Professional politicans should be outlawed in our nation.

It is not the business of any citizen to know about the private lives of any other citizen whether they hold political office or not. Each candidate should be moral and have a high degree of integrity. Neither of these qualities is directly related to religion of any kind. Within religion we have the worst of humanity and the very best of it.

I think that moral character is both an individual quality and a national quality. People, by their social nature, create their own sense of mutual morality. We tolerate immorality or not. We allow people to scam the system or not. We allow criminals to get away with abusing others or not. We choose to be offended by government excess/corporate excess or not. This is all on a personal basis and a societal basis. A free, capitalist society demands an educated electorate and a moral electorate. If it does not, it ultimately fails through the weight of corruption and neglect.

[The Nehor]

We are at the beginning of the nomination season for each party. I am wondering how important morality is when Mormons choose who they want to lead this country.

Very.

How important is it to you that the president is Christian, Mormon, goes to church, prays about his decisions, etc.

I thought we were talking about moral character. Most of these can but do not have to indicate moral character.

How important is moral character to you? Could you vote for someone who had an affair when married?

If they were repentant maybe.

Is the candidates political philosophy separate from his religious philosophy?

Yes but both are important. I can accept someone as faithful and think they are completely wrong in their political beliefs.

[thesometimesaint]

Religion the last refuge of the scoundrel. Give me an honest sinner, over the hyper religious hypocrit anyday.

[The Nehor]

Religion the last refuge of the scoundrel. Give me an honest sinner, over the hyper religious hypocrit anyday.

But give me the honest saint over the honest sinner.

[thesometimesaint]

The trouble is finding one that is interested in a political career.

[The Nehor]

The trouble is finding one that is interested in a political career.

I only know one.

[Whiskeypete]

I think Moral Character is probably the #1 thing I look for when deciding on a candidate to support. And to be sure, Moral does not equal Religious and vice versa. There are plenty of moral people who aren't religious, and plenty of religious people who aren't moral. (and immoral non-religious people / moral religious people as well).

I'm going to have a huge problem voting for a twice-divorced philanderer if he is the nominee of my party. And its not the divorces that bothers me, rather what caused them.

Reminds me of the quote during the Smoot hearings: "I'd rather have a polygamist who doesn't polyg, than a monogamist who doesn't monog."

[california boy]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. Some very interesting responses. Part of what prompted me to start this thread is a conversation I had with a friend this weekend who is not a church goer, but is spiritual. And part of what prompted me to start this thread is me watching the Republican debate held at a church a couple of weeks ago. ( the one Romney and Huntsman did not attend). It seemed more like they were interviewing candidates to be their pastor rather than president. And the candidates seemed to be falling all over themselves in trying to convince the audience that THEY were the most "Christian". Since I think quite a few of the posters on this form are Republican, I would like to ask if you think this focus on religion is healthy for the Republican party?

My views are much more in line with most of the responses on this thread. Sometimes I feel the Republican party appears to be super focused on a candidates religion. I think there are so many more important issues and beliefs that are important in who we elect as president. Like most Americans, I hope we can figure out a way out of this economic and political mess where ever that candidate comes from.