Not Being Tempted Beyond What You Can Bear?

[Amelia]

Where does the idea that one won't be tempted beyond what one can bear come from? Is that a Biblical teaching? Or?

My alternate/original title for this thread was going to be something about children who murder. I was thinking about the children of brutal men who raise their children to kill. And wondering when if ever the responsibility becomes the child's and not the parent's.

If your parent is a killer and raises you in mortal terror and orders you to kill .... If disobeying would likely result in your death even if you had enough sense of right and wrong after that corruption to want to step outside your training ....

Are questions about extreme examples like this frowned upon?

[Bob Crockett]

St. Paul

[oMtonic]

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." -1 Corinthians 10:13 (New Testament)

"But that ye would humble yourselves before the Lord, and call on his holy name, and and pray continually, that ye may not be tempted above that which ye can bear, and thus be led by the Holy Spirit, becoming humble, meek, submissive, patient, full of love and all long-suffering;" -Alma 13:28 (Book of Mormon)

Source: http://lds.org/manua...astity?lang=eng

Edited November 7, 2011 by oMtonic

[TAO]

It comes from 1 Corinthians 1:10:13

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

It's also stated in Alma 13:28

But that ye would humble yourselves before the Lord, and call on his holy name, and watch and pray continually, that ye may not be tempted above that which ye can bear, and thus be led by the Holy Spirit, becoming humble, meek, submissive, patient, full of love and all long-suffering;

Mmm... in any case, I'd think that your situation would be outside the zone of responsibility, in any case, because first, it's a child, second, they don't have evil thoughts in their heart. Ultimately, I know God would do whatever it is that is fair to judge him if he is judged at all =P. And as long as it's fair (and perhaps a bit merciful too), that is all that matters to me =).

EDIT: Ya beat me to it oMtonic! =)

Edited November 7, 2011 by TAO

[Paddy]

Unfortunately the discourse amongst the church members has extended this scripture to also include "trials". I am not sure this is a correct interpretation of the scripture.

Your example of child killers touches on this a little. However temptation usually infers that you know the right and wrong of the thing you you are being tempted about. If you were raised to think killing was ok then it would not, under that definition, be a temptation.??

Paddy

[Duncan]

Unfortunately the discourse amongst the church members has extended this scripture to also include "trials". I am not sure this is a correct interpretation of the scripture.

Your example of child killers touches on this a little. However temptation usually infers that you know the right and wrong of the thing you you are being tempted about. If you were raised to think killing was ok then it would not, under that definition, be a temptation.??

Paddy

I totally agree. the word "trials" somehow was switched in with "temptation" which as we know are two different things

[Jigglysaint]

I wish it was possible to physically beat every single temptation over the head with a stick.

[Mudcat]

Where does the idea that one won't be tempted beyond what one can bear come from? Is that a Biblical teaching? Or?

There may be a precedent for it in some LDS scriptures beyond the Bible. I dunno. I am an evangelical and would say that it is a Biblical teaching. In Paul's first letter to the church in Corinth he states.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

My alternate/original title for this thread was going to be something about children who murder. I was thinking about the children of brutal men who raise their children to kill. And wondering when if ever the responsibility becomes the child's and not the parent's.

This seems an odd scenario. Do you have a real life example? I suppose I could see how a person who was abused as a child might have a propensity to kill their own child through abuse.. if that is what you mean.

I emphasized one of your statements. IMO, I think that from the point that a child is not committing an act of obedience to their parent but rather killing because it is what they want to do (regardless of their "programming" to kill) the are completely responsible for their own actions.

If your parent is a killer and raises you in mortal terror and orders you to kill .... If disobeying would likely result in your death even if you had enough sense of right and wrong after that corruption to want to step outside your training ....

"Kill or die" isn't much of a choice. I think the obvious choice for a child in a morally anemic environment, as you have presented, would be to kill. But I dunno, it's just speculation. Regardless, the crime would be a coerced one. God is fair and just judge and considers all things. Most Christians, including LDS, do believe that children are generally absolved from accountability. Many extend this principle to those who are mentally retarded in contrast to the norm.

Are questions about extreme examples like this frowned upon?

I don't think they are frowned on. They are just a bit hard to make practical applications towards. I imagine most, if not all forum members were never raised by killers or forced to kill or know anyone who was. I don't know of any real world scenarios I have read of either.

A brutal but more realistic scenario would likely fall along the lines of a young girl who has been kidnapped and forced into heroin addiction for the purpose of prostitution at the benefit of her captors. The scenario is troublesome and I am thankful I am not the one who actually makes judgement on such things.

Something that seems relevant to the discussion is what James said.

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

In the provided scenario you offered and the one I offered, I don't think in either scenario the victim was "drawn away in their own desire". Rather they were forced into the desires of another. However I do think there comes a point when it is possible for what "they" want and what the innocent wants become synonymous and the innocence fades.

Ultimately, I think God does grant us the power to say no, but such power is granted through Him. Certainly there are likely things that are beyond our own forbearance, but we are assured that we can do all things through Christ.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Edited November 7, 2011 by Mudcat

[rpn]

Your example isn't about temptation. When you are raised in wickedness you do not learn or know enough of goodness to freely choose. Why would satan even bother trying to tempt you when you have been programmed to accept wickedness as the norm. Before this in history when it got that bad, God wiped out civilizations so that the spirits coming to earth really had a choice. That isn't going to happen in these last days. But if you have been trained to kill, God is not going to hold you accountable for a sin (because you were not rebelling against light, at all). You have to have the law, before you can be held accountable for breaking the law.

[KevinG]

No matter the temptation or trial, if we fail the atonement is always available to us. That is the ultimate escape from sin and weakness.

[Amelia]

This seems an odd scenario. Do you have a real life example?

The very specific example I had in mind was the sons of Saddam Hussein.

I don't have a concrete reference for this now but years ago when they were in the news I seem to remember hearing that he forced them into a life of killing and torture very early.

p.s., thanks to everyone for the scriptural references! I should have known that but I'm rusty.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Amelia

[Duncan]

It becomes murky and not so black and white with people in mental health facilities and also with people who should be there. It is obvious to me that however and whatever happened they aren't handling life well or something overwhelmed them. I had a friend who grew up in a well to do home, great parents, stable environment. Married a guy in the Temple and moved to a small town in a nearby province. I don't know all the details but the guy became addicted to something, drugs, xxx or whatever and he was from that community and the town blamed her for all this and eventually they got divorced and she checked into a facility to get sorted out and she is doing better now but life just bombarded her and her ex for him to do whatever he did. I don't understand how people's lives can get so mucked up to the point that they actually commit suicide and yet God intervenes with .25c to help out a hungry future member of the 70, I don't get it at all

[JAHS]

I totally agree. the word "trials" somehow was switched in with "temptation" which as we know are two different things

Actually the greek word translated as "tempted" in the New Testament can also be translated as "tested", which could relate to our trials.

[Avatar4321]

I would point out that this promise is not universal and has conditions. Prayer being the main one.

[Duncan]

Actually the greek word translated as "tempted" in the New Testament can also be translated as "tested", which could relate to our trials.

I'm wondering about the 50,000 people a year (I think!) who did themselves in who would say that life got confusing and overwhelming or something screwy happened at some point and they ended it all

[JAHS]

I'm wondering about the 50,000 people a year (I think!) who did themselves in who would say that life got confusing and overwhelming or something screwy happened at some point and they ended it all

Paul (1 Cor 1:13) is speaking to the saints of his day who hopefully could draw strength from their faith in God to help them withstand the trials, which should help many of us as well in these days if we are faithful and trust in and obey God. If not perhaps that 50,000 number would be a lot more.

[altersteve]

This is something I believe in very strongly. God not allowing Satan to tempt us with something that we can't handle, and not placing in our lives trials that we can't overcome, is a very touching concept for me.

[Grundelwalken]

This is something I believe in very strongly. God not allowing Satan to tempt us with something that we can't handle, and not placing in our lives trials that we can't overcome, is a very touching concept for me.

It is comforting to know that we will be protected from more than we can bear but there is a caveat that needs to be addressed. We cannot put ourselves in a position where we are inviting temptation or "all bets are off." Some like to wander through life, letting things fall as they may and then wonder why God would let this happen to them. Father will never violate our agency so if WE choose to enter temptation/trial/whatever, He has no recourse but to let us do as we will. MW

[altersteve]

It is comforting to know that we will be protected from more than we can bear but there is a caveat that needs to be addressed. We cannot put ourselves in a position where we are inviting temptation or "all bets are off." Some like to wander through life, letting things fall as they may and then wonder why God would let this happen to them. Father will never violate our agency so if WE choose to enter temptation/trial/whatever, He has no recourse but to let us do as we will. MW

I agree with this. Obviously if we want to be tempted above that which we are able, then God will grant that request. Agency can be a great blessing to us, but it can also come around and slap us in the face at times.

Excellent point.

[Calm]

However, I think how we interpret overcoming our trials and how the Lord interpret the same may at times be dramatically different. We need to be careful not to make assumptions that set us up for disappointment or worse a loss of faith.