cdowis Posted October 1, 2011 Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) I know of a situation where an active LDS strongly felt that his son should be released as a branch president due to family and personal reasons. He felt that he was directed by inspiration and went to the Stake President and requested that release, but the Stake President refused. There was a disagreement on who held the higher authority in this situation.Who has the authority in this case? Should he have taken this to the Area Seventy to overrule the SP.(a few years later showed that the father was right, with almost tragic consequences.) Edited October 1, 2011 by cdowis
Glenn101 Posted October 1, 2011 Posted October 1, 2011 I know of a situation where an active LDS strongly felt that his son should be released as a branch president due to family and personal reasons. He felt that he was directed by inspiration and went to the Stake President and requested that release, but the Stake President refused. There was a disagreement on who held the higher authority in this situation.Who has the authority in this case? Should he have taken this to the Area Seventy to overrule the SP.(a few years later showed that the father was right, with almost tragic consequences.)I think that you have answered your own question when you asked if the father should have taken the issue to the area seventy.Glenn
ERayR Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 I know of a situation where an active LDS strongly felt that his son should be released as a branch president due to family and personal reasons. He felt that he was directed by inspiration and went to the Stake President and requested that release, but the Stake President refused. There was a disagreement on who held the higher authority in this situation.Who has the authority in this case? Should he have taken this to the Area Seventy to overrule the SP.(a few years later showed that the father was right, with almost tragic consequences.)What in the world was the father meddling in his grown son's affairs. He should have talked to his son and the son could take his advice or leave it. I wouldn't dream of going behind my grown childrens back and do something like that and they know better than to do that to me.Whether the father was right or wrong is immaterial. The proper channels is for the father to talk to the son and then leave it alone.
Avatar4321 Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Why would the father have authority to determine who should be branch President?
ERayR Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Why would the father have authority to determine who should be branch President?I think the insinuation is that the father was receiving revelation for his family. Whether he did or not is immaterial. The father talks to the son and that is as far as his authority goes. It is the son's choice as to how he responds.
cdowis Posted October 2, 2011 Author Posted October 2, 2011 I think the insinuation is that the father was receiving revelation for his family. Whether he did or not is immaterial. The father talks to the son and that is as far as his authority goes. It is the son's choice as to how he responds.Your view is that the patriarchial authority has no bearing in the church itself, even though that is the structure in the celestial kingdom, and the Old Testament. The father has no authority at all within the current church organization.. 1
cdowis Posted October 2, 2011 Author Posted October 2, 2011 (edited) Why would the father have authority to determine who should be branch President?The question is regarding his son's participation in a church calling in the church. The SP's primary duty is to the stake, while the patriarch is sensitive to and looking after the needs of his family. Edited October 2, 2011 by cdowis
Avatar4321 Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 I think the insinuation is that the father was receiving revelation for his family. Whether he did or not is immaterial. The father talks to the son and that is as far as his authority goes. It is the son's choice as to how he responds.That may be so. But it's the Local authorities who have authority over Ecclesiastical offices. 1
ERMD Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 It's a question of priesthood keys, and those are held by the stake president.
ERayR Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Your view is that the patriarchial authority has no bearing in the church itself, even though that is the structure in the celestial kingdom, and the Old Testament. The father has no authority at all within the current church organization..No my view is that at this stage of his sons life this father should not be contacting anybody about his sons release from a church calling. He should be following God's exxample and relating his concerns and advice to his son then allowing the son to make his own decisions. It's called agency. The fathers authority as patriarch does not include church organization nor the authority to suspend his sons agency. Edited October 3, 2011 by ERayR 1
BookofMormonLuvr Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 If his son;s circumstances had the possibility of affecting those under his stewardship, his father had every right to exhaust every avenue within the church structure to have his son's calling reexamined.
ERayR Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 If his son;s circumstances had the possibility of affecting those under his stewardship, his father had every right to exhaust every avenue within the church structure to have his son's calling reexamined.Are you or are you going to go around your grown children and run their lives. Or are you going to teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves. A man who is still OK with his father adjusting his life has more problems than a church calling and it isn't any wonder as to why he might be having trouble with it. If I were to do that with any one of my sons or daughters they would quite firmly remind me that I had raised them to think and decide for themselves and that it was their place to make those decisions, not mine. Then again I would not do anything like that.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 If my son's circumstances has the possibility of negatively affecting people under his stewardship, I would most definitely approach higher authorities about the situation. It isn't just about the individual.
ERayR Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 If my son's circumstances has the possibility of negatively affecting people under his stewardship, I would most definitely approach higher authorities about the situation. It isn't just about the individual.Wouldn't it be much better to approach your son with some words of fatherly advice and give him some guidance that would help him be successful in his stewardship. In this way in the future when he has learned wisdom and success he and his posterity can rise up and bless your name.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Apparently, my point is going over your head... never mind.
Calm Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 If you are saying that we each have responsibility to care and support all of our brethren, not just our children, so we should act if we see potential harm, I would agree. However, I would not go straight to leadership first, but try to deal with it personally first.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 If you are saying that we each have responsibility to care and support all of our brethren, not just our children, so we should act if we see potential harm, I would agree. However, I would not go straight to leadership first, but try to deal with it personally first.There is nothing indicating that he didn't speak to his son first. I would assume, because of his knowledge of the seriousness of the situation, that he had in deed spoken with his son previous to going to the SP.
cdowis Posted October 3, 2011 Author Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) No my view is that at this stage of his sons life this father should not be contacting anybody about his sons release from a church calling. He should be following God's exxample and relating his concerns and advice to his son then allowing the son to make his own decisions. It's called agency.OK, so how does that conversation go."I have a feeling/inspiration that you should resign from your calling as branch president, so I suggest that you speak with the SP about it. No, I don't have any specifics except that you should do this.Remember, son, you have your free agency. You can either take my advice and resign, or continue to serve in your calling."Do you understand the difference between resigning a position, and being released from that position? That conversation would have placed the son in an impossible position-- "My Dad said that I should resign. Oh, you want to talk with him to see what he means?" And the father ends up taking with the SP anyway, after placing the son in an embarrassing situation and possibly causing a breach between them. Edited October 3, 2011 by cdowis
ERayR Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Apparently, my point is going over your head... never mind.I completly agree. "Apparently, my point is going over your head... never mind".OK, so how does that conversation go."I have a feeling/inspiration that you should resign from your calling as branch president, so I suggest that you speak with the SP about it. No, I don't have any specifics except that you should do this.Remember, son, you have your free agency. You can either take my advice and resign, or continue to serve in your calling."Do you understand the difference between resigning a position, and being released from that position? That conversation would have placed the son in an impossible position-- "My Dad said that I should resign. Oh, you want to talk with him to see what he means?" And the father ends up taking with the SP anyway, after placing the son in an embarrassing situation and possibly causing a breach between them.OK, so how does that conversation go."President ----- my grown son is not capable of being the Branch President, you have obviously made a mistake in this calling so just release him and find somebody who is capable. Oh I would suggest -----."
Judd Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Perhaps you're leaving out some very pertinent information to the story.
ERayR Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Perhaps you're leaving out some very pertinent information to the story.Perhaps, but it wasn't given so have to go with what is there. We can assume all sorts of scenarios that might change things but what we were given in the OP was an adult son with a father that was regulating his life.
emeliza Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Unless the son was doing something immoral that need to be brought to the SP for disciplinary actions, I would think the dad should have talked to the son and the son should have spoken to the SP on it. From the sounds of it, the son had family issues and he could easily have referred to them in asking for a release. People ask for releases all the time due to other obligations or situations coming up that weren't there when originally called to the calling. I mean, if the Bishop finds out his job is moving to another location, he would tell the SP and ask for a release. There is nothing wrong in doing that and generally speaking, if something is going on in your personal life that affects your calling or your health or those you are working with, you should ask for a release as well. We shouldn't ask for a release just because we don't really care for the calling, but we can if the calling isn't working right or is causing other conflicts.
Calm Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Amen. I've asked to be released from a few callings when it's reached the point where what I could do for my students was outweighed by the difficulties they would have to deal with (large number of substitutes or poor concentration, not able to sit with class during sharing time). One needs to be self aware and act on that awareness if one intends to serve in the best way possible, doing the right thing at the right time as mentioned in conference. Losing oneself in service does not mean ignoring oneself even if that is the way some take it.
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