The Prodigal Son

[blackstrap]

In reviewing the story of the Prodigal Son I began to wonder about some of the statements made and how they might connect to the eternities. The prodigal son asks for his inheritance early and I suppose that was a calculation made for that to happen. When he returns after wasting his inheritance he is welcomed and clothed and given a feast.The elder brother who has remained faithful asks why so much fuss.The father replies that"all that I have is yours". So where does that leave the prodigal son? In the future,when the father passes,what will be his status? Will he necessarily fall under the protection of the other brother?

What does this say about our place in the eternities if we waste our probation or can we apply the story to it?

[CV75]

In reviewing the story of the Prodigal Son I began to wonder about some of the statements made and how they might connect to the eternities. The prodigal son asks for his inheritance early and I suppose that was a calculation made for that to happen. When he returns after wasting his inheritance he is welcomed and clothed and given a feast.The elder brother who has remained faithful asks why so much fuss.The father replies that"all that I have is yours". So where does that leave the prodigal son? In the future,when the father passes,what will be his status? Will he necessarily fall under the protection of the other brother?

What does this say about our place in the eternities if we waste our probation or can we apply the story to it?

There may be so much a father can do in this life to be fair and just with his children with regards to his estate when he dies. But in eternity, all the forgiven children of God will inherit all that the Father has. Anyone who fully repents is fully forgiven.

If we waste our probation in this life without repenting, we cannot receive all that the Father has until we do, assuming we have not gone so far off the deep end that we can't repent. If we have gone that far, we inherit a lesser glory. The prodigal son would have been happy as a servant, and so after he festivities, I suspect he spent the remainder of days working and spending in a lesser temporal capacity than his obedient brother (a hint of this is found where the father tells the obedient son, "thou art ever with me (Luke 15:31)".)

[Kevin Christensen]

Joseph Smith said that the key to any parable is in the question that draws it out.

In this case,

"And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them." (Luke 15:2).

Jesus first tries two other parables about rejoicing when something that has been lost is found. Who rejoices in the parable about a man with two sons?

What does the father in the parable give the returned son in Luke 15:22?

"Bring forth the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet."

What does that signify? Eternal servitude? Will the ring be moved from his hand to his nose? Does the robe have a scarlet "A" sewn on it as a mark of eternal shame for one?

If God gives any of his other children anything, how can he give "all" to the other son? Does "all" mean all for that son and nothing whatsoever for anyone else? Do we think if God gives any love to the returning prodigals, he'll have nothing left for the stolid laborers who never left? Or does "all" not refer to goods, but to eternal life, which is the greatest gift?

Compare this parable with the one in Luke 18:9:14, where "he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others," that is, to just the same sort that had the parable of the man with two sons directed their way.

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

Edited September 11, 2011 by Kevin Christensen

[The Nehor]

What does this say about our place in the eternities if we waste our probation or can we apply the story to it?

If you return and repent you can receive everything. Tie this in with the parable of the laborers in the vineyard and it seems the Lord isn't concerned with how long you've been faithful. Add to that the elder brother's (true) complaint that the younger brother got the fatted calf killed in his honor while the elder brother never got so much as a lamb to celebrate with his friends and you have some hard truths.

[ebeddoulos]

I have sometimes wondered if the parable extended to Lucifer. Now he would definitely be a prodigal.

[Libs]

Both sons need to repent. The younger for his unfaithfulness. The elder for his unforgiving heart.

[Rivers]

I have sometimes wondered if the parable extended to Lucifer. Now he would definitely be a prodigal.

That's an intriguing thought. Except Lucifer already forfeited his chance at obtaining a body and progressing any further. But perhaps its never too late.

[mbh26]

I think that the prodigal son's actions were a setback to him and perhaps to his family as well. He still has potential to be completely happy, but to say that now that he has repented he is in the exact same situation he would have been had he stayed and put in years of faithful service is something I so disagree with. In fact I feel as if it is Satan who would have me believe such things, because there is no one other thing that has made me want to quit the Church more than this interpretation of the parable. If that is really what it comes down to, I truly want no part of it, not now, not ever.

It's struck me as odd throughout my adult life observing Christians behave who profess to believe in this doctrine. They don't tolerate much unfairness in real life either without a fight or exacting a punishment. The western world is practically speaking still pretty Old Testament even though most people claim to believe in the New Testament. Try it out in real life. See how your family reacts. See how the Church reacts even.

But I've seeen seemingly contradictory statements even in LDS theology. I often think of the painting of the parable of the ten virgins. It points out that you can't put a lifetime of fasting each month, of church attendance, tithing, scripture study into a few years or a confession. We'd like to think there was some purpose to coming to this earthly school would we not? God gives us a commandment and then tells we can still be just as well off if we don't do it. What meaning does that commandment have now?

Edited September 11, 2011 by mbh26

[blackstrap]

Perhaps there is a difference if one sins thinking that they can repent later vs sinning with no regard for the future. The prodigal son wanted what he wanted semmingly without regard for the future and after much trouble his repentence was apparently sincere . Satan's philosophy is "eat,drink,and be merry.....but ...god will beat you with a few stripes and then all is well" ( serious paraphrasing )We can easily repent later and no big deal.

The parable that bothers me is the one about the workmen starting at different hours and getting the same pay.One way that I reconcile it is to assume that all the workmen were anxiously looking for work when the call came and not saying that they would rather play or sleep or chat with their buddies until later in the day and only then begrudgingly work for a bit .

[The Nehor]

I think that the prodigal son's actions were a setback to him and perhaps to his family as well. He still has potential to be completely happy, but to say that now that he has repented he is in the exact same situation he would have been had he stayed and put in years of faithful service is something I so disagree with. In fact I feel as if it is Satan who would have me believe such things, because there is no one other thing that has made me want to quit the Church more than this interpretation of the parable. If that is really what it comes down to, I truly want no part of it, not now, not ever.

He wasn't in the same situation in terms of righteousness or experience but the reward is the same. The parable of the laborers in the vineyard seems to make that clear:

"For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."

Note that this equal reward for unequal labor story is a continuation of the answer to Peter's question about what will be the reward for those who have followed Jesus from the beginning explaining why many of the last shall be first and the first shall be last.

There's a lesson in humility in there somewhere and another about serving God being untied to a reward that I find strangely comforting and liberating.

It's struck me as odd throughout my adult life observing Christians behave who profess to believe in this doctrine. They don't tolerate much unfairness in real life either without a fight or exacting a punishment. The western world is practically speaking still pretty Old Testament even though most people claim to believe in the New Testament. Try it out in real life. See how your family reacts. See how the Church reacts even.

The difference is that mortals being unfair to me in life are not God. In the scriptures and in our dispensation some prophets had fairly easy roads while others were persecuted, suffered, and lived lives of want.

One of the best scripture regarding this:

"Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, 'Lord, who is going to betray you?') When Peter saw him, he asked, 'Lord, what about him?' Jesus answered, 'If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.'"

Sour grapes on Peter's part that John gets what he does not? Maybe Jesus rebukes that and basically says that it's not your concern. Your concern is to follow me.

I had to learn this the hard way when I saw recent converts and penitents returning from apostasy get spiritual blessings showered on them I had craved my whole life. I was like the elder brother. They get the fatted calf so quickly and I don't get a lamb. What the h***? I got a similar rebuke. The promises I made to you are still sure. It is not your concern how I deal with my other servants.

But I've seeen seemingly contradictory statements even in LDS theology. I often think of the painting of the parable of the ten virgins. It points out that you can't put a lifetime of fasting each month, of church attendance, tithing, scripture study into a few years or a confession. We'd like to think there was some purpose to coming to this earthly school would we not? God gives us a commandment and then tells we can still be just as well off if we don't do it. What meaning does that commandment have now?

It's still obedience to God.

I like C.S. Lewis's question. He asks himself what he would do if God spoke to him and told him he had been deceived. There was no eternal life. God was dying. I can do nothing for you.

He then asks if that was the time to switch sides? Would you abandon the God you know as good and forsake it all because there was no reward?

Hard questions but I think they shine a light on whether we should obey regardless of reward.

As to how I would answer the question this song is how I hope it would go but of course I can't be sure:

My friendship’s utmost zeal to try,

He asked if I for him would die.

The flesh was weak; my blood ran chill,

But my free spirit cried, “I will!”

[Calm]

Does it make what I have any less if someone else has it or more as well?

If I am given as much as God can give me (infinite blessings), why should I worry that others are given it too. Does not the fact that there are more sharing in the love and glory of God through Christ's Atonement make my part of it even better, not worse?

Edited September 11, 2011 by calmoriah

[Franktalk]

Both sons need to repent. The younger for his unfaithfulness. The elder for his unforgiving heart.

In this parable the trials of the one son led him back. I think that his heart had changed due to his experience. I see nothing in the returning son that indicates that he is still lost. But the son who stayed appears to have stayed for wealth which we can't take with us when we die. We have to look at exactly how the son who stayed is faithful. If he is faithful to obtain material wealth then he is not like his father who rejoiced at seeing his other son. How come the one son did not also rejoice? In the story of the rich man and the beggar Abraham tells the rich man you had everything in life. Is this son who stayed like the rich man? I think so. The son who stayed can easily sin in his heart where it counts. And since it appears he does not forgive then he will not be forgiven.

[mbh26]

He wasn't in the same situation in terms of righteousness or experience but the reward is the same

Which was what? Does it simply come down to which lifestyle was more pleasant during the time? Are you maintaining that the prodigal son's life was less pleasant while he wasn't keeping the commandments. I realize he did live with pigs and ran upon some hard times. But I don't think that's viewed as an essential part of repentance. Is that the point of the story, if you disobey you'll have to live with pigs and eat cornhusks before you can come back and have the fatted calf roasted for you? I don't think it is. Even the Church doesn't forgive people right away who stray. They demand time to carry out repentance processes. They don't just put a robe on you and ring on your finger and celebrate when you come back. They make you wish you had never left. Since leaving is much more pleasant than staying, they have to put you through enough pain so that it adds up once again to not being worth it to have left.

This isn't a question about comparing myself to other people. It's a question comparing myself to what I could have been. It's about all the sacrifices made and looking back and saying, "Was this really the best route for me?" Was it really the best route for everyone? Was it all worth it? It's something I'll answer for myself. It's not an answer that we can dictate that one must feel is right. It is what it is.

[Libs]

In this parable the trials of the one son led him back. I think that his heart had changed due to his experience. I see nothing in the returning son that indicates that he is still lost. But the son who stayed appears to have stayed for wealth which we can't take with us when we die. We have to look at exactly how the son who stayed is faithful. If he is faithful to obtain material wealth then he is not like his father who rejoiced at seeing his other son. How come the one son did not also rejoice? In the story of the rich man and the beggar Abraham tells the rich man you had everything in life. Is this son who stayed like the rich man? I think so. The son who stayed can easily sin in his heart where it counts. And since it appears he does not forgive then he will not be forgiven.

Yes, I agree. I should have said, both sons needED to repent. The younger son did repent, while we are not sure about the older son (if he did or not). I took a class that was centered around this parable, and it was suggested that Jesus intended the older son to be representative of the Pharisees, in that, outwardly, he did everything he was supposed to do, but his heart was cold and not in communion with the Father. It was an interesting class, and gave me a whole different perspective on this parable, which really made a lot of sense.

[Calm]

Since leaving is much more pleasant than staying, they have to put you through enough pain so that it adds up once again to not being worth it to have left.

I sincerely do not get this type of reasoning. It seems very foreign to not only what is taught in the Church, but what I have experienced and seen.

[The Nehor]

Which was what? Does it simply come down to which lifestyle was more pleasant during the time?

No, it also involves the lessons learned and what God could teach you. It also involves what you can do for God in that time.

Are you maintaining that the prodigal son's life was less pleasant while he wasn't keeping the commandments. I realize he did live with pigs and ran upon some hard times. But I don't think that's viewed as an essential part of repentance.

No, I'm not maintaining that. He was missing out on some opportunities for growth and service. When the money first ran out or before or even when things were looking bad but not that bad yet.

Is that the point of the story, if you disobey you'll have to live with pigs and eat cornhusks before you can come back and have the fatted calf roasted for you? I don't think it is.

Not at all. He could have come back long before he was eating husks.

Even the Church doesn't forgive people right away who stray. They demand time to carry out repentance processes. They don't just put a robe on you and ring on your finger and celebrate when you come back.

I celebrate. I don't have the ring and robe in the story to give (the Father is God after all). Most repentance doesn't require much time. Often it is instantaneous.

They make you wish you had never left.

Who is "They"? Church leaders? I disagree then. That is not their aim.

Since leaving is much more pleasant than staying, they have to put you through enough pain so that it adds up once again to not being worth it to have left.

So you're suggesting they must get their full punishment because sin is more pleasant then faithfulness? I couldn't disagree more. The full punishment is h*** and the atonement is around to save us from that.

This isn't a question about comparing myself to other people. It's a question comparing myself to what I could have been. It's about all the sacrifices made and looking back and saying, "Was this really the best route for me?"

I might be misunderstanding but to me this sounds too much like "seeking to save my life" and less like "losing my life to God". The promise is that I'll find it again but fixating on that keeps you from taking the first steps in that direction.

[The Nehor]

Yes, I agree. I should have said, both sons needED to repent. The younger son did repent, while we are not sure about the older son (if he did or not). I took a class that was centered around this parable, and it was suggested that Jesus intended the older son to be representative of the Pharisees, in that, outwardly, he did everything he was supposed to do, but his heart was cold and not in communion with the Father. It was an interesting class, and gave me a whole different perspective on this parable, which really made a lot of sense.

I think that is one interpretation but on the other hand the elder son said he was faithful and the Father didn't take the time to remonstrate with him over his faithlessness. To be honest the elder brother seems too likeable and faithful to be the kind of Pharisee Jesus dealt with (those trying to trap him). Jesus insulted/rebuked them almost routinely. I imagine if that was his primary intent that he would have had the father rebuke the elder not remonstrate with him lovingly.

[mbh26]

No, it also involves the lessons learned and what God could teach you. It also involves what you can do for God in that time.

So do people who go inactive from Church and come back later miss out on these things? If the end result is the same, how does it matter?

When I think of this being that people meet in the NDEs, someone who you just love being around, nonjudgmental, not there to use you, one you just couldn't bear to leave, I think of how different this being is to the way I felt about the MTC, around the so called spiritual giants of Mormonism.

Edited September 11, 2011 by mbh26

[Libs]

I think that is one interpretation but on the other hand the elder son said he was faithful and the Father didn't take the time to remonstrate with him over his faithlessness. To be honest the elder brother seems too likeable and faithful to be the kind of Pharisee Jesus dealt with (those trying to trap him). Jesus insulted/rebuked them almost routinely. I imagine if that was his primary intent that he would have had the father rebuke the elder not remonstrate with him lovingly.

He was faithful in following the rules. Legalistic, in other words. But, his heart definitely needed some work. It was not in alignment with the Father's. I think this shows the other side of the Father...the side that coaxes with love. This son may not have been as far gone as the Pharisees, but he was heading in that direction.

It's a really interesting parable. I agree, there are many ways to see it, and many lessons to be learned from it.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Libs

[ERayR]

In reviewing the story of the Prodigal Son I began to wonder about some of the statements made and how they might connect to the eternities. The prodigal son asks for his inheritance early and I suppose that was a calculation made for that to happen. When he returns after wasting his inheritance he is welcomed and clothed and given a feast.The elder brother who has remained faithful asks why so much fuss.The father replies that"all that I have is yours". So where does that leave the prodigal son? In the future,when the father passes,what will be his status? Will he necessarily fall under the protection of the other brother?

What does this say about our place in the eternities if we waste our probation or can we apply the story to it?

The point the father was making to the eldest was that nothing would diminish his inheritance. Such it is with our Father in Heaven. No matter what someone else gets it will be fair and will not diminish someone elses inheritance.

[Franktalk]

So do people who go inactive from Church and come back later miss out on these things? If the end result is the same, how does it matter?

If one comes back for show and is not a changed heart then God will know. But in the case where one does come back with a changed heart then they are accepted as if they never left. I have no problem with this, many will take different paths to God. Who am I to judge someone for one path verses another.

[mbh26]

The point the father was making to the eldest was that nothing would diminish his inheritance. Such it is with our Father in Heaven. No matter what someone else gets it will be fair and will not diminish someone elses inheritance.

But if we as individuals sin and repent as opposed to never sin at all, do we diminish our own inheritances?

[changed]

The point the father was making to the eldest was that nothing would diminish his inheritance. Such it is with our Father in Heaven. No matter what someone else gets it will be fair and will not diminish someone elses inheritance.

it's like the flame on a candle - you don't lose anything by lighting someone Else's candle. The big gift is knowing how to love and feeling the joy that brings - being together forever with family - you can't diminish that.

my expanded parable:

The Prodigal son

A certain man had two sons… The oldest son was a hard-working righteous child who honored his parents and was honored by them in return. Friends and distant relatives praised his noble character and admonished their children to be more like him. He was the subject of praise and envy, of high expectations, trust, and pride.

As time went by, the man was blessed with another son. If you have lived in a family with more than one child, you already know some of the stereotypes which surround both the first born, and the baby of the family. The elder son is blessed with the advantage of age and will always be a little more experienced, wise, and talented than the younger members of the family. The younger members are constantly compared to their older, better, smarter sibling without ever having the ability to quite measure up. And so it was that one day, the younger son in despair asked his Father for his inheritance, and left the home of his birth.

As the younger son traveled through the countryside, he was confronted with something he had never experienced before – praise. He worked hard in the various farms and establishments he came across for board and lodging. Rather than being criticized for not working as well or as hard as his elder brother, he was now appreciated for his work. The younger son came from a well-to-do refined family and this background gave him an advantage in comparison with most of the other vagabonds which roamed the countryside. For the first time in his life the younger son was held in high esteem by those around him.

The younger son loved the praise and appreciation he was now given, but lacked the maturity to wear the mantle that was placed upon his shoulders. The less fortunate gathered around the younger son for help and support, and he helped them in the only way he knew how. He gave away his inheritance rather than scolding them to “work harder” as he had been scolded. He gave them unconditional love as they wanted to be loved rather than distance himself from them as he had been distanced. Some said the younger son wasted his substance with riotous living. The younger son was not trying to be evil though, he was only trying to be close and appreciated by those around him.

We are influenced by, and become like, those we form relationships with. It did not take long for the younger son to become like those in the far country he found himself in. No longer was he the strange novel wealthy tourist. The younger son became a fellow citizen like everyone else. His previous notoriety dimmed and vanished, praise vanished, and his inheritance slipped away. When sickness and famine swept through the far country, the younger brother found himself alone competing with pigs for food.

With gnawing pains in his stomach, the younger brother thought back to the great feasts in the home of his birth. How he yearned for the succulent lamb and tender greens of his parent’s table. I will arise and go to my father, reasoned the younger son, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee and am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

The younger son thought of the kindly servants whom he had grown up with. Unlike his family, the servants had never looked down on him. He realized how much love he had received from his nursemaid, and thought of the many acts of kindness that had been shown to him by all the humble servants. They had been there for him before, and perhaps they would not mind if he was allowed to join with them again. And so it was that the younger son stood up and started walking down the road back to his home – back to the servants which he loved and had loved him.

Twas not a servant, but his father, who first recognized and ran out to greet him as the young son neared the old house though. As a child we see our parents as parents instead of people. In that moment, the younger son started to see his father as a person – a person who had recognized the struggles of the younger son; a person who loved him enough to give him the resources and freedom to go into the world and learn those things that could not be learned at home.

The elder son pouted when the younger was given robe and ring and fatted calf. The elder could not understand the merry music and dancing for the one who has gained wisdom. In the coming years the humble younger son became a treasured friend and confidant among the servants and with his parents. No one felt embarrassed or little around him because he had descended below them all. The younger son listened to others, and when he spoke or gave advice he did so through personal experience rather than merely from a book. And so it was, that although the elder son went on to prosper with fertile fields and cattle, the younger son seemed to always have the most love from those around him.

alternate ending (after some people didn't like the first ending)

The elder son pouted when the younger was given robe and ring and fatted calf. The elder could not at first understand the merry music and dancing for the one who has gained wisdom. The first year back home was marked with both joys and sorrows. A joyful reunion, but with sorrow over lost memories and an awkwardness over the lost familiarity which comes between people who have been separated for some period of time. The young son had to get to know everyone all over again. He had to make amends the best he could towards those whom he had hurt, the last of which, was his brother.

On the anniversary of his return, after a year of hard work, the youngest brother had saved up enough to give robe and ring and his best fatted calf to the elder brother. The younger honored his elder brother with singing and dancing and feasting the likes of which no one had ever seen before. At the end of the evening, the younger brother knelt weeping in front of his elder brother, asking for forgiveness and wishing for brotherhood. The elder brother took him up in his arms, forgave him, and asked the younger brother for forgiveness – for not receiving him back home with the warmth and joy he should have had. There were tears and hugs all around between friends and family, who, after a year of being together, had finally become truly united once more.

In the coming years the humble younger son became a treasured friend and confidant among the servants and with his parents and siblings. No one felt embarrassed or little around him because he had descended below them all. The humble younger son listened to others, and when he spoke or gave advice he did so through personal experience rather than merely from a book. Although forgiven, the humble younger son worked hard always mindful of the unpayable debt which he owed to his family. The elder son also worked hard and prospered through his industry and thrift. The elder son was honored by all for his steadfast obedience and his charitable forgiving nature. The next generation who grew up in that household never knew all the details behind a certain annual celebration, but they did know that their family was distinguished above others by the love and care which everyone had for one another.

Edited September 12, 2011 by changed

[mbh26]

he did so through personal experience rather than merely from a book

Would you say that those who experience sinning and then repent are more knowledgable and experienced than those who never sinned at all?

[LeSellers]

Would you say that those who experience sinning and then repent are more knowledgable and experienced than those who never sinned at all?

Given there is exactly one element in the second class, and an uncountable numbdr in the first, your point is not very useful.

However, I am wholly ignorant of murder and extortion. On these topics I gladly acknowledge that there are many more knowledgable than me, some of whom have repented. But I cannot see any advantage they have over me, either.

Lehi

Edited September 12, 2011 by LeSellers