How You React To Adversity Is What Makes The Diff.

[Duncan]

We had a combo deal today for Eq and HP and the teacher taught that it is how you react to adversity is what makes the difference for a succesful life, some people become broken and never recover yet others excell under pressure and thrive-that is fine, if you think you have options. I have been thinking about it since then though and yet some people have horrendous pressures and they can't react positively to more adversity. For example my Great Grandma. long story short, she in her Non-LDS way crossed the plains with a whack of kids ranging from an infant to a nine year old, on a rickety old wagon and later lost two of adult children to death before she did and lived on the farm and family members say she "rusted out" and just died. Why would things get so bad in her life that she got so clouded and how could she be expected to make a decision let alone the "right" decision. Sadly too, people committ suicide because they are in just despair, members and non-members alike. Does God know that they would do that or that they would just give up and "rust out", it also seems he is more interested in how people drive and finding car keys and getting Temple doors shipped through legal rufflemuffle ( I have heard a story about that) then helping people who are in such despair.

PS Setus Lupetus,I really did graduate from High School even though my title line thing says differently!

Edited September 5, 2011 by Duncan

[Maidservant]

I have read this several times and wanted to reply but not quite sure how to say in words how I feel in my heart on this question . . . the kind of question I have wrestled with most of my life, and indeed we all do.

I think . . . hmm . . .

This earthlife is full of loss.

We've lost so many things. In our personal life stories. In the story of the ages of history.

So much slips through our fingers.

So much is out of control.

So much is marked by indescribable pain.

So much is soooooo heavy with burdens that are never lifted.

Earthlife is traumatizing for most, if not all, of us.

I think your Grandma would know Jesus a lot more than you might think. She walked his path. She descended below all things . . . or at least some really unbelievable things.

She knows the descent, and she still has the ascent ahead of her. Her earthlife will come into eternal perspective for her.

However . . . where and when we are at now, you are right, if we can do ANYTHING to lift someone's despair or life that is near us in our families, friends, wards, neighborhoods, jobs, etc . . . we NEED to.

I recommend you read the book Christy by Catherine Marshall.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Maidservant

[Storm Rider]

We had a combo deal today for Eq and HP and the teacher taught that it is how you react to adversity is what makes the difference for a successful life, some people become broken and never recover yet others excel under pressure and thrive-that is fine, if you think you have options. I have been thinking about it since then though and yet some people have horrendous pressures and they can't react positively to more adversity. For example my Great Grandma. long story short, she in her Non-LDS way crossed the plains with a whack of kids ranging from an infant to a nine year old, on a rickety old wagon and later lost two of adult children to death before she did and lived on the farm and family members say she "rusted out" and just died. Why would things get so bad in her life that she got so clouded and how could she be expected to make a decision let alone the "right" decision. Sadly too, people commit suicide because they are in just despair, members and non-members alike. Does God know that they would do that or that they would just give up and "rust out", it also seems he is more interested in how people drive and finding car keys and getting Temple doors shipped through legal rufflemuffle ( I have heard a story about that) then helping people who are in such despair.

PS Setus Lupetus,I really did graduate from High School even though my title line thing says differently!

We have absolutely no control over what happens to us for the most part. Stuff happens! What we can control is how we react to what happens to us. To offense we respond in love; to aggression with peace; essentially we turn the other cheek in all things.

Some of us will just rust out. There is a small minority that sees no purpose in this life or at least do not value the life they have such that, for them, the logical choice is to commit suicide. Our Father is merciful and understands us fully. I think that some of us cannot be healed in this life, but must be healed in the next.

There are entire populations that suffer intolerably because of the choices of their leaders or those in power. They die by the thousands of hunger, oppression, and persecution. These will people will be blessed in the eternities for the h*** they endured in this life.

In the end, I believe that God judges us on more than how we simply react and endure. I fully count on his mercy playing a major role at judgment time.

[TAO]

We had a combo deal today for Eq and HP and the teacher taught that it is how you react to adversity is what makes the difference for a succesful life, some people become broken and never recover yet others excell under pressure and thrive-that is fine, if you think you have options. I have been thinking about it since then though and yet some people have horrendous pressures and they can't react positively to more adversity. For example my Great Grandma. long story short, she in her Non-LDS way crossed the plains with a whack of kids ranging from an infant to a nine year old, on a rickety old wagon and later lost two of adult children to death before she did and lived on the farm and family members say she "rusted out" and just died. Why would things get so bad in her life that she got so clouded and how could she be expected to make a decision let alone the "right" decision. Sadly too, people committ suicide because they are in just despair, members and non-members alike. Does God know that they would do that or that they would just give up and "rust out", it also seems he is more interested in how people drive and finding car keys and getting Temple doors shipped through legal rufflemuffle ( I have heard a story about that) then helping people who are in such despair.

PS Setus Lupetus,I really did graduate from High School even though my title line thing says differently!

Hmmm... is death so much an end, for him? I think it's just the next step in life =). It's just... a step onwards. We all fear death... but is it really that bad of a thing to fear? We will all join to it eventually, and, there, we will meet him again... unless it be here on the Earth. To be quite honest, Duncan... I would not worry. Death is the next step in life... eternal life... and I'm sure your Great Grandma is in a place where she needs to be now... back with her redeemer =). Christ is like that, he loves us quite a bit... it is hard to know the feeling, but it is there =D.

Best Wishes,

TAO

[CV75]

helping people who are in such despair.

The Lord has asked no one to suffer more than what He has already taken upon Himself in the Garden of Gethsemane. No matter how horrible or unjust a person's suffering seems, Christ has not only offset it, but reversed many times over with the gift of immortality and the path to exaltation, though suffering far greater than the worst we can ever witness or imagine. On the same note, no matter how trivial we may assess His interest and relief, He would not even be able to find car keys and temple doors from beyond the grave without having had His great drops of blood fall to the ground.

[Messenger]

My lesson in HP was similar. It was based on Marvin J Ashton's talk in 1984 ... (Link below)

---------------------

Ensign » 1984 » November

If Thou Endure It Well

Elder Marvin J. Ashton

Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Edited September 5, 2011 by Messenger

[Duncan]

My lesson in HP was similar. It was based on Marvin J Ashton's talk in 1984 ... (Link below)

---------------------

Ensign » 1984 » November

If Thou Endure It Well

Elder Marvin J. Ashton

Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

what happens when you don't endure it well or aren't dealing well with life? the If not? I LOVE Elder Ashton, I am just wondering because you watch AE's Intervention, Hoarders and a myriad of other shows and people don't handle life well and turn to other things and they can get to a point where they don't even know how to handle anything anymore because of horrible loss or whatever.

[Messenger]

what happens when you don't endure it well or aren't dealing well with life? the If not? I LOVE Elder Ashton, I am just wondering because you watch AE's Intervention, Hoarders and a myriad of other shows and people don't handle life well and turn to other things and they can get to a point where they don't even know how to handle anything anymore because of horrible loss or whatever.

What I learned when reading his talk that enduring it well doesnt just mean putting on a smile for the day and pretending the problem or tragedy does not exist. Enduring it well simply means being receptive to the spirit in order to work your way through it. Being inspired to take the right action to the next step is the part a lot of people miss out on. Its all about being inspired to take the appropriate action in order to resolve or overcome the problem.

I think all of us at one time in our lives may have withdrew from the Lord when some sort of problem or even personal tragedy occurs. We incorrectly rely on our own worldly logic. Thats the last thing we need to do. Knowing what action to take is critical. Being worthy of inspiration of what the action is, simply makes it much more endurable.

In his talk he mentions the following forms of problems or tragedies .... "heartaches, sorrow, death, sins, weakness, disasters, physical illness, pain, mental anguish, unjust criticism, loneliness, or rejection."

Edited September 5, 2011 by Messenger

[CV75]

what happens when you don't endure it well or aren't dealing well with life? the If not?

The blessings of repentance, forgiveness, healing and grace are available for those in need who are accountable and seek them, and the blessings of healing and grace (they may wait until the resurrection) for those who are not. If the accountable have become unaccountable through pride and disobedience, the Lord will weigh in accordingly.

[Duncan]

The blessings of repentance, forgiveness, healing and grace are available for those in need who are accountable and seek them, and the blessings of healing and grace (they may wait until the resurrection) for those who are not. If the accountable have become unaccountable through pride and disobedience, the Lord will weigh in accordingly.

what if it is not through pride or disobedience? I am thinking of Charlie Chaplin and his Mother. They lived at the extreme, extreme bottom of the poverty level in Victorian England and she had to provide for her two boys but she cracked and never seemed to recover. I recently re-read Chaplin's autobiography and he said paraphrasing that we didn't know when were out of a crisis because we were always in one and then in a bigger one-Mind you he went on to become the funniest man on the planet and he provided for his Mom but that was after she was institutionalized and she seemingly, as far as I know, never recovered

[Maidservant]

what happens when you don't endure it well or aren't dealing well with life? the If not? I LOVE Elder Ashton, I am just wondering because you watch AE's Intervention, Hoarders and a myriad of other shows and people don't handle life well and turn to other things and they can get to a point where they don't even know how to handle anything anymore because of horrible loss or whatever.

I wanted to comment again because since I last did, I have come across two things. The first is that I watched the movie Soul Surfer . . . I recommend that to you.

The other is, in my personal Book of Mormon reading, I came across a particular verse or two that "hit" me today (you know how that is). On a side note, I have been reading my Book of Mormon this time 4 verses at a time (one time I read it 7 chapters at a time), and you will be surprised at what jumps out when you are reading smaller pieces of it. In any case:

1 Ne 19:9-10

"And the world, because of their iniquity, shall judge him to be a thing of naught; wherefore they scourge him, and he suffereth it; and they smite him, and he suffereth it. Yea, they spit upon him, and he suffereth it, because of his loving kindness and his long-sufferring towards the children of men. And the God of our fathers . . . yieldeth himself . . . into the hands of wicked men, to be lifted up . . . and to be crucified . . . and to be buried . . ."

I know that Jesus is Jesus and he did live a life and give a sacrifice. But for some time now, I have been seeing how Jesus literally is the pattern or the representation of all of us living here on earth, and so many times when I read the scriptures, I don't only see Jesus, I see us and especially people who have suffered more than I.

So many people in this world have been and are considered "naught" (and thereby worthy of our scourging).

So many people in this world have been spit upon.

So many people in this world are crucified (figuratively).

And so forth.

When each of us left our heavenly home to be born here, we all yielded ourselves (our innocent, glorious selves) into the hands of wicked men. One of the grand secrets and keys is that we (humanity as a whole, and most of us individually) are both the innocent (as typed by Christ) and the wicked (as typed by those who crucify Christ). Why? Because we are in the hands of those who ignore us or harm us (including entire social systems) and, as well, those who are placed in our hands, we ignore and harm them (sometimes without meaning to or wanting to, but also sometimes we are more deliberate in that).

When I was younger, I was so excited for the adventure of life and of "being good" and "following the plan of salvation" etc. Well, since then I have found myself face down in the mud on a more or less constant basis with very little relief both due to my own grave weaknesses, the grave weaknesses of others, and the grave failures of the world's system that we live in and I seem unable to escape or rise above. Notwithstanding this, I do need to acknowledge my heavenly Father's walk with me . . . NOT because everything is all right (I'm not so sure it is!), but just because I know he has done certain things for me and taught me certain things, and I cannot deny these things. But I consider my coming to know God less about keeping the commandments (although thank goodness for those embracing safeties) than it is about Jacob's wrestle with the angel and knocking down heaven's door for answers and for the veil to be rent because I can barely stand to be on this side of it. Every morning I wake up and say to my heavenly Father, "I'm just going to fail you today . . . Do I have to be here just to show you how much I can screw up?" And he says, "You belong to me, period. I have you in my hand. I'm not going to let go! I love you and I want you to love me back!" And I say, "Well, you are my God, and I'm not going to let go! and I love you and I want you to love me back!" So . . . we're pretty much in agreement.

So this is not a gospel of doctrine, to me, it's a gospel of what hurts and of redemption . . . not doctrinal redemption, but real redemption from the real things that really hurt by a God who really knows me.

That God did not and does not forget your great-grandma nor any other suffering child of God.

But it sure feels like it a lot of times.

And that's what they call mortal life.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Maidservant

[Messenger]

what if it is not through pride or disobedience? I am thinking of Charlie Chaplin and his Mother. They lived at the extreme, extreme bottom of the poverty level in Victorian England and she had to provide for her two boys but she cracked and never seemed to recover. I recently re-read Chaplin's autobiography and he said paraphrasing that we didn't know when were out of a crisis because we were always in one and then in a bigger one-Mind you he went on to become the funniest man on the planet and he provided for his Mom but that was after she was institutionalized and she seemingly, as far as I know, never recovered

They say we are not to be tempted to sin beyond our measure to resist. But I'm not always sure this applies to circumstance. Although, circumstance may force us to steal food in order to stay alive - that is, if there was no church welfare program. We also need to ask ourselves, are the mentally or physically handicapped also judged by what they do? Or by what they dont do?

Having ADHD I often think about this. Relationships are difficult for me. I've learned to be careful when I start a friendship. And my Bishop always knows I have this condition before I am called to anything. But, I would also like to add that when I have a calling and am acting on it, my ADHD seems to subside. I bore my testimony yesterday because I was inspired to. I thought to myself, "I'm going to go up there and nobody is going to follow me by what I am saying." This often happens when I give my testimony because its not written down, and I dont follow it. But yesterday was different. I got up and everyone was quiet, when just a few moments ago 4 or 5 babies were crying. I bore my testimony and everyone paying attention. Then I stepped down. It was a moment of clarity for me, and perhaps its a privelge to have them once in a while. But even more I would say that The Principle of Compensation can help a lot. But I dont think its always compensates all the time, at every moment. Sometimes our ultamate compensation occurs after we die.

I think we are judged by our actions and thoughts by the ability we have to control our actions and thoughts. However, free agency also allows others to take actions on us, and some can possibly kill us or another innocent person. That just brings us back to enduring it well.

[CV75]

what if it is not through pride or disobedience?

They are included with those who are not accountable, as those who suffer despite their having no role in the cause of it. The Lord's atonement covers all who are willing to receive it (even if they don't receive it until after this life), and is realized fully in the resurrection and judgement, where everything gets settled properly. In the meantime, we can alleviate others' suffering and thus promote God's will in this world, preparing us all for the better world to come.

[ebeddoulos]

What some would call rusting out, I would call enduring. Your GGM sounds like a fine grand lady, who did well, especially given the adversities she endured. I think you can be proud of her and the way she endured life to the very end.

[Duncan]

What some would call rusting out, I would call enduring. Your GGM sounds like a fine grand lady, who did well, especially given the adversities she endured. I think you can be proud of her and the way she endured life to the very end.

that is true! she did raise my granddad, of whom, I have never met but I have met his daughter aka my Mom!

[Questing Beast]

In some matters, I choose anger over feeling sadness. Others, I choose "I just don't care" over disappointment or anger or sadness. Disappointment is the greatest, never-ending pain I know of. It gnaws, it "rusts you out" inside alright. It's all well and good to tell someone "get over it", "grow a pair", etc ad nauseam. Cheap words. Focus on someone else and their weakness, and you might not have to acknowledge your own a little longer.

I think Jesus Christ's central message about getting on in this life was that by focusing on him and trusting his promise of eternal life in the world to come, it makes loss and disappointment (PAIN) in this life easier to deal with. But for some, even that hope is not enough to make here and now bearable. It is good not to judge the performance of others or make comparisons....

[Calm]

what happens when you don't endure it well or aren't dealing well with life? the If not? I LOVE Elder Ashton, I am just wondering because you watch AE's Intervention, Hoarders and a myriad of other shows and people don't handle life well and turn to other things and they can get to a point where they don't even know how to handle anything anymore because of horrible loss or whatever.

That would depend on if you were enduring it to the best of your ability or close to it or choosing instead to turn yourself into a victim unnecessarily, be lazy and let others do the work, settle for less or anything along those lines.

Not enduring something well does not equate to not enduring to the end because the Lord judges us on our ability and circumstances individually, not on some rigid measuring stick.

[Calm]

What I learned when reading his talk that enduring it well doesnt just mean putting on a smile for the day and pretending the problem or tragedy does not exist.

Indeed.

That actually can be the opposite of enduring well; ignoring the problem or disengagement is not what God placed us on the earth for, but to act and get involved with all aspects of life.

[Calm]

what if it is not through pride or disobedience? I am thinking of Charlie Chaplin and his Mother. They lived at the extreme, extreme bottom of the poverty level in Victorian England and she had to provide for her two boys but she cracked and never seemed to recover. I recently re-read Chaplin's autobiography and he said paraphrasing that we didn't know when were out of a crisis because we were always in one and then in a bigger one-Mind you he went on to become the funniest man on the planet and he provided for his Mom but that was after she was institutionalized and she seemingly, as far as I know, never recovered

Duncan, have you been a member all your life? I am just curious because while I expect people to discuss specifics in order to better understand a certain experience or just come to terms with it, what you are asking seems pretty basic stuff to me that has been talked about quite a bit in my experience, but that may be because it is a more common topic in RS and guys don't dwell on the same aspects. And sometimes things just don't sink in until we have some life experiences to tie it to...

Have you read Believing Christ? It covers the basics of the Atonement quite well, imo, including both how Christ's act may affect us if we accept his gift and what our side of the covenant is as well.

PS: not the book but a talk on the subject: http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=7054

Edited September 5, 2011 by calmoriah

[Duncan]

Duncan, have you been a member all your life? I am just curious because while I expect people to discuss specifics in order to better understand a certain experience or just come to terms with it, what you are asking seems pretty basic stuff to me that has been talked about quite a bit in my experience, but that may be because it is a more common topic in RS and guys don't dwell on the same aspects. And sometimes things just don't sink in until we have some life experiences to tie it to...

Have you read Believing Christ? It covers the basics of the Atonement quite well, imo, including both how Christ's act may affect us if we accept his gift and what our side of the covenant is as well.

PS: not the book but a talk on the subject: http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=7054

yes I have been a member all my life and I served a mission and I have read Believing Christ! I ask these questions because sometimes answers (not necessarily anyone's on here) don't cover all these other areas of life and I just wonder about that. I don't know about people like my G-Grandma and Chaplin's Mother, because I don't think or know if God wants us to get so downtrodden you can't even function anymore and even think of even how to think anymore. Plus too with people commiting suicide, I just don't know how or why things could to them get so bad or even homelessness, why athat all happens, does God want so and so to be homeless? if he did then why? if not then what the heck what kefuffle with these people and did God know that and how do you even get out of horrible situations to a point where you can function again

[Calm]

yes I have been a member all my life and I served a mission and I have read Believing Christ! I ask these questions because sometimes answers (not necessarily anyone's on here) don't cover all these other areas of life and I just wonder about that. I don't know about people like my G-Grandma and Chaplin's Mother, because I don't think or know if God wants us to get so downtrodden you can't even function anymore and even think of even how to think anymore. Plus too with people commiting suicide, I just don't know how or why things could to them get so bad or even homelessness, why athat all happens, does God want so and so to be homeless? if he did then why? if not then what the heck what kefuffle with these people and did God know that and how do you even get out of horrible situations to a point where you can function again

It definitely makes the answer more immediate when we know of actual people who are suffering rather than talking about it in the abstract.

As it happens I just came across a blog post that deals with a side issue of this topic, our own reaction to others' suffering, that I felt was spot on and I think you might be interested in it:

The second is much less ritually fraught. Periodically over the years–the last time one year ago–I have been called to “mourn with those who mourn” (Mosiah 18:9). Once every several years it seems the overwhelming sadness experienced by someone I love will evoke in me the convulsing sobs of an ancient grief, one that overrides my normally circumspect affect and seems to shatter the illusion that my mind controls my body. The loss of a child, an unexpected life-threatening illness, severe depression, the loss of a sibling or parent–I have shared with people I love each of these mortal tragedies. Though I would wish that we were spared such experiences, intense sympathetic grief has become sacred to me, has harrowed my soul to allow the planting of the seeds of immortal love. Indeed, if the divine life is what we can anticipate after death, then we would do well to remember that Christ wept at Lazarus’s death (John 11:35) and God the Father wept in the presence of Enoch (Moses 7).

I do not believe that understanding the meaning of evil in our lives–what Christian theologians dress up as theodicy, “God’s righteousness”–is as simple as invoking divine pedagogical goals (as we LDS are sometimes caricaturized)–what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger, no pain no gain, we suffer that we might learn, et cetera are slogans sometimes brutal in their simplification. No moral lesson seems able to justify the loss of a young mother to cancer, the loss of one’s independence and personality to traumatic brain injury or mental illness. There is truth, though, lurking somewhere beneath these platitudes about a higher purpose in suffering. When I weep with my afflicted beloveds, there is a moral clarity and purity that carves eternity into me and deepens the bonds I feel with others. I think that may be the life that Christ enjoins upon us, a life in which occasional evils, afflictions, and miseries endemic to mortality are interspersed with (and indeed causally associated with) tenderness and love, commitment and conviction. While I do not wish misery on anyone, least of all those I love, when the inevitable misery comes, I yearn to be counted with Christ at the bedside of the sufferer. And I thank God, not for the misery, but for the troubling intensity of my love that seems to deepen as I seek to obey that ancient American baptismal covenant to mourn with those who mourn.

http://bycommonconsent.com/2011/09/04/two-memories-in-imitation-of-christ/

[Bernard Gui]

Having dealt with genetic propensity to experience depression, I can speak with some knowledge of rusting out.

My first episode came as a young adult. I had no idea what was going on, and I toughed it out. Over a period of

two years I finally worked my way through and come out the other side. My second episode as a mature adult,

however, was another thing. It came out of the blue and within days I was flattened like a pancake without any

desire to eat, drink, talk with anyone, live. Fortunately, Mrs. Gui and I recognized something bad was coming,

so I was able to get medical and spiritual help, but it took a while to regain what was lost - virtually all aspects

of personality, desire, caring just go away.

Talking with relatives, I discovered that my grandfather, uncle, several cousins, and 2 sisters had experienced

the same thing, but had not talked much about it. My grandfather used to say he had the "blues." Now I know

what he meant. At the time we thought he was just tired.

Anyway, my point is, some of these people we are talking about may have experienced severe depression. As I was

recovering, I asked my doctor what happened to people before depression was understood as a disease, not a

mental defect. His reply startled me..."They died, committed suicide, or became alcoholics." I can understand

that now and I have great compassion and understanding for those who experience depression. It's not for sissies.

But, there is help that was not available to our ancestors.

Bernard

Edited September 5, 2011 by Bernard Gui

[Duncan]

Having dealt with genetic propensity to experience depression, I can speak with some knowledge of rusting out.

My first episode came as a young adult. I had no idea what was going on, and I toughed it out. Over a period of

two years I finally worked my way through and come out the other side. My second episode as a mature adult,

however, was another thing. It came out of the blue and within days I was flattened like a pancake without any

desire to eat, drink, talk with anyone, live. Fortunately, Mrs. Gui and I recognized something bad was coming,

so I was able to get medical and spiritual help, but it took a while to regain what was lost - virtually all aspects

of personality, desire, caring just go away.

Talking with relatives, I discovered that my grandfather, uncle, several cousins, and 2 sisters had experienced

the same thing, but had not talked much about it. My grandfather used to say he had the "blues." Now I know

what he meant. At the time we thought he was just tired.

Anyway, my point is, some of these people we are talking about may have experienced severe depression. As I was

recovering, I asked my doctor what happened to people before depression was understood as a disease, not a

mental defect. His reply startled me..."They died, committed suicide, or became alcoholics." I can understand

that now and I have great compassion and understanding for those who experience depression. It's not for sissies.

But, there is help that was not available to our ancestors.

Bernard

Thank you for sharing that! I , too, know of whence you speak, Hope things go well in your life!

[Questing Beast]

I don't know about our modern "understanding" of soul disease. It seems heavily invested in medications. The amount of money to be made in the prescription drugs industry is incalculably huge. That makes me very suspicious. And the backlash or side effects of bad reactions to the meds are potentially deadly not just catastrophic.

Getting the "blues" is part of being human. We are complex balances of biological functions going on all the time. Of course we are going to feel out of phase at times. And illness in its myriad forms will complicate the balance that our body tries to maintain. Propensity for depression is certainly variable and genetic propensity exists. But to depend on medications must be a last resort when self destruction is virtually inevitable. All other cases of so-called depression must renounce this propensity, which turns in so many cases into dependency on prescription drugs that mess with the brains functions....

[Bernard Gui]

I don't know about our modern "understanding" of soul disease. It seems heavily invested in medications. The amount of money to be made in the prescription drugs industry is incalculably huge. That makes me very suspicious. And the backlash or side effects of bad reactions to the meds are potentially deadly not just catastrophic.

Getting the "blues" is part of being human. We are complex balances of biological functions going on all the time. Of course we are going to feel out of phase at times. And illness in its myriad forms will complicate the balance that our body tries to maintain. Propensity for depression is certainly variable and genetic propensity exists. But to depend on medications must be a last resort when self destruction is virtually inevitable. All other cases of so-called depression must renounce this propensity, which turns in so many cases into dependency on prescription drugs that mess with the brains functions....

You know not of which you speak.

Bernard

Edited September 7, 2011 by Bernard Gui