kolipoki09 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) I've been contemplating a few things relative to the temple and other ordinances performed in the Church. Since many of these ordinances require physical interaction and other gestures, what is normally done with those who cannot fully engage in these ordinances because of physical disabilities, such as a missing limb? It's been a while since I've been able to have a Q&A with a member of my local Temple Presidency. I'm looking for a Church resource or quotation if possible, with regard to this question. If anyone would like to share this information privately, without divulging the sacred nature of these ordinances, I would also welcome a PM. The help of all of you would be appreciated. Edited June 23, 2011 by kolipoki09
KevinG Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 http://lds.org/disability/?lang=eng for general information and policies about disabilities in the Church.The General Handbook of Instructions volume 1 has specifics on how to administer ordinances for those with disabilities (Handbook 1, 16.1.8.). You would need to ask a local priesthood leader to see those chapters.I remember a talk where someone was called to be a Partiarch and did not have hands. He was told to give a blessing with what he had. I wish I could reference this but I can't find the talk. My general understanding is that we do as much as we can and the obedience is accepted as whole.
Duncan Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 http://lds.org/disability/?lang=eng for general information and policies about disabilities in the Church.The General Handbook of Instructions volume 1 has specifics on how to administer ordinances for those with disabilities (Handbook 1, 16.1.8.). You would need to ask a local priesthood leader to see those chapters.I remember a talk where someone was called to be a Partiarch and did not have hands. He was told to give a blessing with what he had. I wish I could reference this but I can't find the talk. My general understanding is that we do as much as we can and the obedience is accepted as whole.Pres. Kimball tells that story. I have seen all kinds of people with a variety of physical issues and it takes a bit longer but so what, they accomodate them as best they can
David T Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I served as a temple worker. The instruction was, if I recall, at specific points, to have an ordinance worker perform the physical actions at the side of the patron. You could say the worker acts as proxy hands for the patron 2
Jeff K. Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 As a temple worker, we are specifically trained to help amputees. We act as their hands. The ordinance is valid because the spirit of the law trumps the letter, especially when done with the authority of Christ. 1
Stargazer Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I don't have access to any church pubs on the matter (and I doubt that there are any). Pubs that is. There may be policy instructions which are for internal use in the temple, but I have no info about that.In a temple endowment I once sat next to a man whose right arm was missing below the elbow. When in the normal couse of the ordinance the use of the right arm and hand was called for, independent of anyone else, he used his stump as if he still had a complete limb. When normally the right hand would be used in an interaction with another, he and the interactor used their left hands. And so on.
Garden Girl Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Hello Kolipoki...As an ordiance worker every week for six years, I can assure everyone that no one should avoid the temple because of any physical limitation... the workers are trained in just how to help such individuals in a quiet, compassionate manner. One of my favorite patrons was a lovely woman in a large wheelchair who attended the temple every week, normally on my shift. (We were always advised beforehand if there was a patron with special needs so that we could be prepared... anything from special language cards, to foreign language requirements, to disabilities or health issues, etc.) During the endowment I would help this sister, including seeing that she was led to the proper veil for her wheelchair access. And in the initiatories we were able to accomodate her also... and at the end of each ordinance she would kiss the card of the family member whose work she had just completed. I considered it a privilege to assist her and other sisters with special needs.No one should feel embarrassed or hesitant about attending. The workers love to help everyone who enters the House of the Lord and are trained to meet any situation... and if a worker needs help, she is trained to know who and how to get it.In cases of severe disability, advice can be sought from the temple presidency.GGEDIT TO ADD... My best friend from my ward was sealed to her husband with him on a hospital guerney shortly before he passed away. Everything went smoothly... Edited June 23, 2011 by Garden Girl 2
Kenngo1969 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I don't have access to any church pubs ... (and I doubt that there are any). Pubs that is.Certainly not! While it would be more convenient for those who are so disposed to get the occasional pint of ale if the Church had any pubs, that would blatantly violate the Word of Wisdom! (Sorry; Couldn't resist.)
Kenngo1969 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 ... [A]t the end of each ordinance she would kiss the card of the family member whose work she had just completed. ... I hope you're happy, Garden Girl! You just made a grown man cry!
Jeff K. Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Garden Girl raises a certain point.I remember when a man came to the temple with a parrot on his shoulder. While unusual we accomodated his needs also.
kolipoki09 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 Garden Girl raises a certain point.I remember when a man came to the temple with a parrot on his shoulder. While unusual we accomodated his needs also.That I know goes against (current) Church policies. The only place where service dogs may not be allowed is in the temple. In the temple, ordinance workers will gladly assist you. In addition, please be aware of local laws concerning service dogs and other assistance for those with disabilities.
Bernard Gui Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Garden Girl raises a certain point.I remember when a man came to the temple with a parrot on his shoulder. While unusual we accomodated his needs also.I think I saw him once. Did he have a patch over his eye, a peg leg, and a hook for a hand?Bernarrrrrd
Jeff K. Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I didn't say we allowed the parrot to go into the session (after all his wings were clipped). Apparently the bird recognizes when the individual goes into siezures, so stays with him. The member had a collapsible small bird cage which the bird went into quietly in the dressing room.The temple president came out afterwards (we had a lesson on watching the front desk, and asked with a wry smile "did they have a temple recommend". I replied "The parrot had a very small one president". 1
Garden Girl Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Hi Jeff...I'm glad you explained further about the parrot... makes sense to me GG
Nathair/|\ Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Certainly not! While it would be more convenient for those who are so disposed to get the occasional pint of ale if the Church had any pubs, that would blatantly violate the Word of Wisdom! (Sorry; Couldn't resist.)There was such a place in the old Hotel Utah.
LeSellers Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Certainly not! While it would be more convenient for those who are so disposed to get the occasional pint of ale if the Church had any pubs, that would blatantly violate the Word of Wisdom! There was such a place in the old Hotel Utah.I used to work there. There was one in Nauvoo, too. Lehi
Joseph Antley Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 I remember a talk where someone was called to be a Partiarch and did not have hands. He was told to give a blessing with what he had. I wish I could reference this but I can't find the talk. My general understanding is that we do as much as we can and the obedience is accepted as whole.That man was the patriarch of my stake in Louisiana growing up. He gave my siblings their patriarchal blessings by putting the nubs of his arms on their heads.
Jeff K. Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Hi Jeff...I'm glad you explained further about the parrot... makes sense to me GGYou know, I had to work very hard not to say "AAAaargh" while working.
Magyar Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Hello Kolipoki...As an ordiance worker every week for six years, I can assure everyone that no one should avoid the temple because of any physical limitation... the workers are trained in just how to help such individuals in a quiet, compassionate manner. One of my favorite patrons was a lovely woman in a large wheelchair who attended the temple every week, normally on my shift. (We were always advised beforehand if there was a patron with special needs so that we could be prepared... anything from special language cards, to foreign language requirements, to disabilities or health issues, etc.) During the endowment I would help this sister, including seeing that she was led to the proper veil for her wheelchair access. And in the initiatories we were able to accomodate her also... and at the end of each ordinance she would kiss the card of the family member whose work she had just completed. I considered it a privilege to assist her and other sisters with special needs.No one should feel embarrassed or hesitant about attending. The workers love to help everyone who enters the House of the Lord and are trained to meet any situation... and if a worker needs help, she is trained to know who and how to get it.In cases of severe disability, advice can be sought from the temple presidency.GGEDIT TO ADD... My best friend from my ward was sealed to her husband with him on a hospital guerney shortly before he passed away. Everything went smoothly...What a beautiful, beautiful post. It is depressing to read critics of the church demeaning temple worship as some kind of rote thing Mormons do in order to score unnecessary brownie points with God as they "work" their way to heaven. My eyes are wet thinking of the genuine love that people such as you have described must surely feel as they take part in the sacred, holy rituals -- and the pure love that that woman must have felt for the people beyond the veil for whom she was privileged to be proxy, sending them forward in exaltation with a kiss. 1
Lachoneus Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 There are no printed publications explaining how to deal with disabled patrons in the temple. There are, however, a series of training DVDs produced under the direction of President Hinckley which explain and demonstrate the proper method of administering each of the temple's ordinances. How to perform each ordinance for a disabled patron is fully covered as part of this training. These DVDs are available to the training coordinators in each temple and are currently used to train all temple workers as directed by the temple presidency. Over the last eleven years I have found this training very informative. The basic principle is that the patron is asked to do everything they can possibly do to the best of their ability. Anything they cannot do is done for them by others. It always reminds me that all the Lord requires of each of us is to do all we can to the best of our abilities. Anything we cannot do he will do for us. During my service I have had the opportunity of administering the temple ordinances to persons who are deaf, blind, confined to wheelchairs or walkers, on gurnies, missing hands, arms or legs, and without function in their hands, arms or legs. As far as I can tell, anyone who wants to attend the temple and who has a valid temple recommend can be accommodated. For many months there was one young man who had suffered a terrible auto accident who came to the first session on Saturday morning every week. He was unable to move any of his arms or legs. He was barely able to speak and it took all my concentration to make out what he was saying. In fact, the last couple of times he came, he could not speak at all. His father, who always came with him and pushed his wheelchair, spoke for him. The temple workers were his hands and arms. It was a humbling experience each time I was asked to administer to him. Unfortunately, circumstances now prevent him from coming any more. I miss seeing him. I hope to see him again some day when he is no longer bound by the restrictions of his mortal body. 2
Calm Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Apparently the bird recognizes when the individual goes into siezures, so stays with him. It is remarkable what animals are capable of doing for us.
thesometimesaint Posted June 24, 2011 Posted June 24, 2011 I have a major disability, and everyone at the Temple is always very helpful.
Kenngo1969 Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 There was such a place in the old Hotel Utah.I used to work there. There was one in Nauvoo, too. LehiVery well. I stand corrected!
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