Over 1/3 of women have had abortions?

[Bsix]

For many years, the LDS Church, like-minded traditional Christians, and others have spoken out against abortion with near universiality in opposing its application. (Some differences exist, but the position is pretty united.)

One of the reasons (IMO) for opposition is that abortion is a slippery slope. Once abortions become available, cheap, and socially acceptable...the number of babis killed will skyrocket.

Some interesting...and profoundly sad stats on abortion (50 million abortions...LINK)

-- 50 million abortions since Roe v Wade

-- 1.3 million abortions in 2007

-- 1.2 million abortions in 2008 (Hopefully this down trend will continue.)

-- 35% of all women under the age of 46 have had an abortion

-- The average abortion costs $413

-- 93 percent of all abortions occur for

[Deborah]

I heard recently that there has been a reduction in abortions since the advent of the diagnostics which show the living fetus as a real live baby. I don't have any statistics but it seems with more knowledge it would be harder to justify the murder of these innocents, who though not living outside the womb are still living beings.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I wonder what can be done to turn back this tide of killing. How could our society re-establish a moral ground that killing the unborn for convinience and not wanting a child is unacceptable.

Six

By one person at a time receiving Jesus Christ as their Savior.

[Lars Umlaut]

Six, how do you feel about the fact that the Church permits killing babies in the cases of incest or rape? (I have no personal experience with this, but if I understand correctly, the Church merely asks the potential baby killer to pray for confirmation that killing her baby is the right thing to do.)

Look forward to your insight.

[LeSellers]

Six, how do you feel about the fact that the Church permits killing babies in the cases of incest or rape?

That's a gross overstatement of the Church's position.

Your feeble attempt, below, to explain the true position only makes your misleading assertion worse.

... the Church merely asks the potential baby killer to pray for confirmation that killing her baby is the right thing to do.

No, that's not the stance. She (and her husband, or other person(s) involved) should not only "pray for confirmation", but actually receive that confirmation, and then only when she/they has/have considered alternatives (like adoption).

It's not as simple, nor as cut'n'dried as you paint it to be.

Even in the cases of rape and incest (which are both extremely rare, as pregnancies are concerned), it is not a clear-cut case of, "Oops, well, let's impose capital punishment on the baby for the sin of his father (or possibly that of his mother, too)."

Lehi

[Bsix]

Six, how do you feel about the fact that the Church permits killing babies in the cases of incest or rape? (I have no personal experience with this, but if I understand correctly, the Church merely asks the potential baby killer to pray for confirmation that killing her baby is the right thing to do.)

Lars, fair question.

Personally, I am opposed to abortions in cases of rape and incest. It seems illogical to me that killing a baby due to the objectionable circumstances of conception makes the act morally acceptable. To me, this aspect of abortion is the only true...and tiny...grey area on the subject.

From a pragmatic perspective I can force myself to live with such a standard if it creates a bright line of what is morally acceptable. Under such a standard, we could deem almost 95-99% of all abortions as morally unacceptable. I also trust that God will be the ultimate judge in these rare cases.

That said, it is difficult for me to blend my moral outrage over abortion with pragmatic, practical compromise that would help prevent the vast majority of abortions.

I also think (not accusing you) that many pro-abortionists tend to hype such exceptional side issues in the abortion debate as a red-herring. They'd rather distract with a fractional issue than the much larger moral debate of convinience abortions.

Of the 50 million abortions since Roe v Wade...the overwelming, vast majority have been elective abortions that are not related to rape or incest. I say stop those...and then deal with the rape/incest issue.

Six

[blueadept]

I'm fairly sure the number of LDS folks who have an abortion is negligible at best. IMO, LDS tend to be pro-lifers irregardless how others may interpret their doctrine. Now if we can get them to show it like they do for marriage.

I attended the Pro-life walk in SF this last Saturday with 40,000+ pro-lifers and permit me a couple of observations.

1) It's reasonable that a third of the walkers were under the age of 30. In our particular group of 25 that went to the event, only the 5 chaperones were over 30. I don't care how the other side tries to spin it, the pictures of the babies being aborted at 8 weeks old in the womb look like babies. The side to be on in regards to the issue, seems obvious to the young generation. They were out there to show that.

2) The largest group receiving abortion are the minorities of women of our nation who don't necessarily have the financial means to take care of a baby. Many of these women have had multiple abortions.

3) There's a growing group of pro-life clinics who model themselves after planned parenthood as a viable option for these desparate women who will take care of the women and babies with proper pre-natal care and adoption services as needed. Planned parenthood makes their money by way of abortions. These clinics are slowly interupting their business. Yeah.

My saying I had printed on my shirt summed it up for me. "Abortion is not a sign that women are free, it is a sign that they are desperate"

Finding ways to make these women to feel not so desperate seems to be a Christ-like approach to this issue IMHO.

[bluebell]

-- 93 percent of all abortions occur for

[BCSpace]

35% of all women under the age of 46 have had an abortion

Well yes, there is no way all those are for circumstances in extremis. Approximately 35% of all women (and many of their "partners") are like unto a murderer.

[blueadept]

I think they meant to say "selfish reason".

I think I prefer the term "social reason" for the majority of women who do not want to raise a baby on their own since family and the father do not want to support the women. Considering these women in a 'selfish' category seems unreasonable IMO.

[seriously honestly]

I think I prefer the term "social reason" for the majority of women who do not want to raise a baby on their own since family and the father do not want to support the women. Considering these women in a 'selfish' category seems unreasonable IMO.

Then why not give the child up for adoption?

[maupayman]

This is a fascinating subject. I have a few questions for posters who are against abortion.

1. Why is it ever okay to have an abortion?

- if the the reason for not aborting fetus' is that you are killing an innocent living being, why does that change if a person is raped etc? The fetus is still innocent and killed in these instances.

2. Are you against in-vitro fertilization?

- as per the link below, most eggs used in the process are disposed of. Why are these fertilized eggs not a concern of the pro-life movement?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_inco.htm

[bluebell]

I think I prefer the term "social reason" for the majority of women who do not want to raise a baby on their own since family and the father do not want to support the women. Considering these women in a 'selfish' category seems unreasonable IMO.

We'll have to disagree.

With all the resources available which allow a woman NOT to raise a child she gives birth to, i don't see how in almost all case it is not selflishness that would lead a woman not to carry a baby because it is inconvient to have one.

[blueadept]

Then why not give the child up for adoption?

For the majority of these women, they don't see the financial support to get there. $413 dollars for an abortion looks a lot cheaper than 9 months of pre-natal care. They're not seeing the viable option. All they're seeing is planned parenthood who will take care of their 'problem' with no family/father support to consider otherwise.

[bluebell]

This is a fascinating subject. I have a few questions for posters who are against abortion.

1. Why is it ever okay to have an abortion?

- if the the reason for not aborting fetus' is that you are killing an innocent living being, why does that change if a person is raped etc? The fetus is still innocent and killed in these instances.

2. Are you against in-vitro fertilization?

- as per the link below, most eggs used in the process are disposed of. Why are these fertilized eggs not a concern of the pro-life movement?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_inco.htm

I don't believe that life begins with conception-i don't believe that every fertilized egg is the equivelant to a human being. I do however feel that ending a life that would become a human (and i do think that happens LONG before birth) for 'social' reasons is pretty low on the scale of humanity, and a sin.

[blueadept]

We'll have to disagree.

With all the resources available which allow a woman NOT to raise a child she gives birth to, i don't see how in almost all case it is not selflishness that would lead a woman not to carry a baby because it is inconvient to have one.

Minority women do not have the same support system unfortunately.

Did I mention the LARGE majority of women who have abortions are Latinos and Blacks? I'm not ready to pigeon-hole these women as selfish at this point and would prefer to look at why so many are getting abortions. IMO, it's money-driven reasons.

[bluebell]

Minority women do not have the same support system unfortunately.

Did I mention the LARGE majority of women who have abortions are Latinos and Blacks? I'm not ready to pigeon-hole these women as selfish at this point and would prefer to look at why so many are getting abortions. IMO, it's money-driven reasons.

Like i said, we'll have to disagree.

[Jason]

1. Why is it ever okay to have an abortion?

- if the the reason for not aborting fetus' is that you are killing an innocent living being, why does that change if a person is raped etc? The fetus is still innocent and killed in these instances.

Personal choice of the mother is the issue.

In cases of a rape the mother did not make the choice to engage in activities that might result in a pregnancy. It was entirely forced upon her, and now she has to endure the consequences of someone else's unjust actions. An abortion under these circumstances is sometimes acceptable, particularly if the mother is exceptionally young - she should seek guidance from the Lord on the issue.

In the vast majority of abortions the mother freely made the choice to have sex and is trying to duck the consequneces of her actions. That is a selfish reason for ending the life of an innocent.

2. Are you against in-vitro fertilization?

- as per the link below, most eggs used in the process are disposed of. Why are these fertilized eggs not a concern of the pro-life movement?

In-vitro fertilization is not an attempt to dodge the consequences of a mother's bad choice.

[ELF1024]

To my knowledge the Church has not specifically linked abortion to the sin of murder. Which I think is rather gutless on the part of the Church. I believe that Abortion is abhorrant as Murder.

[Jason]

I question whether 35% of women age 46 and under have really had an abortion. That sounds like too many to me, and the source document doesn't seem to have that figure in it.

[blueadept]

Like i said, we'll have to disagree.

With the noticeable increase in the number of pro-life clinics to give these women a viable option and the number of planned parenthood clinics decreasing due to not making money, the point of how we label these women will become immaterial in the near future.

The only young pro-choicers at the walk I saw, were the young atheists with their signs. While I don't expect Roe v Wade to get overturned I suspect the 93% of abortions that I believe most of us condemn on this board, will go away in our lifetime...

Of course the #1 reason that abortions are down is due to the abortion pill.......but that's another talk..

[blueadept]

I question whether 35% of women age 46 and under have really had an abortion. That sounds like too many to me, and the source document doesn't seem to have that figure in it.

You have to keep in mind that women who have had an abortion, normally have had more than one unfortunately.

[Walden]

By one person at a time receiving Jesus Christ as their Savior.

Or, by teaching young women and men the importance of using birth control properly and responsibly.

[blackstrap]

I oppose abortion generally, but I also realize that if the 1,000,000 aborted babies/year were instead brought to term and then given up for adoption,there is no way the population would be able to absorb them.Society would be opening a huge number of orphanages and a major price would be paid in other ways .A much stricter adherence to the law of chastity would help the problem greatly as would (dare I say it) better conception information.I don't hold my breath.

[seriously honestly]

This is a fascinating subject. I have a few questions for posters who are against abortion.

1. Why is it ever okay to have an abortion?

- if the the reason for not aborting fetus' is that you are killing an innocent living being, why does that change if a person is raped etc? The fetus is still innocent and killed in these instances.

I still believe abortion in this case is wrong; a choice was still made by someone, and it wasn't the child's fault. I believe the most merciful thing to do would be to give the child up for adoption.

2. Are you against in-vitro fertilization?

- as per the link below, most eggs used in the process are disposed of. Why are these fertilized eggs not a concern of the pro-life movement?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_inco.htm

There's no need to go right to using 24 eggs; I would say only use as many eggs as you plan on implanting.