Atheist Feminist Obsessed with Mormon Mommy Blogs

[Libs]

Regarding the "housewife depression syndrome" that is real phenomenon and you do not have to be LDS to have it happen to you. Years of staying at home with kids can be very depressing, if you're not getting out a lot to socialize with other adults or getting a chance to develop interests of your own. I stayed at home for sixteen years and went through several episodes of serious depression. I didn't even realize, at the time, "why" I was going through it. I am a natural homebody, for the most part, so I just didn't realize staying at home, that much, was affecting me so negatively. I realized it after I finally got out of the house and went to work. My life became much more balanced and the depression was much less often.

[bluebell]

bluebell:

"Utah is, after all, the state with the highest rate of prescription antidepressant use..."

I don't get your point.

She's stating a fact as she understands it. Why wouldn't she mention that? It's relevant to her article.

[nicolasconnault]

Regarding the "housewife depression syndrome" that is real phenomenon and you do not have to be LDS to have it happen to you. Years of staying at home with kids can be very depressing, if you're not getting out a lot to socialize with other adults or getting a chance to develop interests of your own. I stayed at home for sixteen years and went through several episodes of serious depression. I didn't even realize, at the time, "why" I was going through it. I am a natural homebody, for the most part, so I just didn't realize staying at home, that much, was affecting me so negatively. I realized it after I finally got out of the house and went to work. My life became much more balanced and the depression was much less often.

Thanks for sharing that. I have an inkling that housewife depression may be in part stemming from a clash between traditional family values (father-as-provider, mother-as-nurturer etc.) and modern Western individualistic, almost isolationistic trends. In the past people had a much stronger sense of community, entire neighbourhoods knew and cared about each other and had frequent social events. This allowed mothers at home to have a great deal of social contact with others. Multi-generational families (2 or 3 generations under one roof) also increased social interaction, so isolation was not much of an issue.

Today the sense of community seems to have nearly disappeared in much of the Western world, so isolation becomes a real problem for mothers who want to mostly take care of the "home" side of the family.

Just an idea, do you think there is any merit in it?

[Calm]

Today the sense of community seems to have nearly disappeared in much of the Western world, so isolation becomes a real problem for mothers who want to mostly take care of the "home" side of the family.

Just an idea, do you think there is any merit in it?

I would not be surprised if part of the increase of having kids involved in organized extracurricular activities is in part to give the adults a chance to socialize with other adults in 'acceptable' ways, a soccer mom can visit with other soccer moms while kids are playing without feeling guilty that she is neglecting her kids etc.

Anytime a specific role is given unbalanced importance (motherhood or career, fatherhood or career as examples though definitely not the only area this can happen), depression can occur just imo, but especially so if it cuts off necessary social or physical interactions.

[Libs]

Thanks for sharing that. I have an inkling that housewife depression may be in part stemming from a clash between traditional family values (father-as-provider, mother-as-nurturer etc.) and modern Western individualistic, almost isolationistic trends. In the past people had a much stronger sense of community, entire neighbourhoods knew and cared about each other and had frequent social events. This allowed mothers at home to have a great deal of social contact with others. Multi-generational families (2 or 3 generations under one roof) also increased social interaction, so isolation was not much of an issue.

Today the sense of community seems to have nearly disappeared in much of the Western world, so isolation becomes a real problem for mothers who want to mostly take care of the "home" side of the family.

Just an idea, do you think there is any merit in it?

Yes, I think that idea has a lot of merit. Our culture has definitely changed and is not nearly as supportive of mom staying home, as it used to be. I think the real change started in the 50's...the isolationist trend. I started my family in the 70's when everything was really changing quickly. Most of my friends worked and were much too busy to socialize during the week. Even my own mother worked! I was most often at home alone with the kids. Very little adult interaction. That took it's toll after awhile.

Also, attitudes towards women in both eras create difficulties. My mother always worked, because she wanted to, but I remember many, many conversations between her and my grandmother (who was a total stay at home mom) where grandma would lament about how she wished my mother didn't have to work. She really thought it was harming us kids. (Personally, I think it helped us become more independent, because my mother was a bit of a control freak). But, anyway, the attitude was, if you were not at home with your kids, you were an inferior mother. I think that's one of the reasons I stayed home, because I had that in my head, from my grandmother and that generation. But, I also enjoyed being home with the kids, for the most part.

Then, came my generation where women were almost expected to go out and work, even though there was little support for that (as you mentioned about the multi-generational families). Childcare is expensive and some women worked just to pay for childcare. That doesn't seem reasonable (unless you really just LOVE your job ).. Now, most women do work, and stay at home mom's are kind of looked at as some kind of oddity. It's also becoming much less financially feasible for women to stay at home, which is kind of sad.

[MorningStar]

Great article! My best friend was commenting that it seems like there are way more Mormon Mommy blogs out there than anything else. She thinks it's fascinating and does think that it only shows the good parts of life, which is why she likes my blog. I talk about the good and the bad. Some women do look like they have the perfect life just by reading their blogs and it's important to remember that no one has the perfect life. They're just choosing to showcase the positive.

[Mordecai]

Couple comments.

I have to admire this writer for having the courage to say nice things about Mormons. I get discouraged when every secularist I read is hate-filled and bitter toward LDS folks. Seems like a very nice feminist/atheist and one who isn't just a drone who hates everyone who disagrees with her belief system. Nice person, apparently.

Also, LDS women being on anti-depressants could largely be attributed to having a lot of children. They get deprived of nutrients, because fetuses tend to do that (causing post-partum depression, among other problems), they don't get enough sleep and are under a lot of stress. Almost anyone would be depressed from that. (Not that there is no pressure to keep up the appearance of a perfect family; there certainly is, and that doesn't help, obviously). We might also consider that a higher level of education can lead to anti-depressants, instead of, for example, illegal narcotics. Plus, LDS women don't drink, so they don't have that escape and means to take the edge off on occasion.

[nicolasconnault]

Couple comments.

I have to admire this writer for having the courage to say nice things about Mormons. I get discouraged when every secularist I read is hate-filled and bitter toward LDS folks. Seems like a very nice feminist/atheist and one who isn't just a drone who hates everyone who disagrees with her belief system. Nice person, apparently.

Also, LDS women being on anti-depressants could largely be attributed to having a lot of children. They get deprived of nutrients, because fetuses tend to do that (causing post-partum depression, among other problems), they don't get enough sleep and are under a lot of stress. Almost anyone would be depressed from that. (Not that there is no pressure to keep up the appearance of a perfect family; there certainly is, and that doesn't help, obviously). We might also consider that a higher level of education can lead to anti-depressants, instead of, for example, illegal narcotics. Plus, LDS women don't drink, so they don't have that escape and means to take the edge off on occasion.

Yes some of these factors could play a part. However I'm not sure about the "fetus" theory. In my experience, it's more the day-to-day drudgery and exhaustion of looking after young children and keeping a home that have depressive qualities. Although pregnancy can be a very difficult time for women, for some it can also be a very "high" period of time. Perhaps nutrition plays an important part there.

Also, the alcohol argument isn't particularly strong, because alcohol is a depressant drug It may take the "edge" off for a few hours (by numbing sensations and muddling thought processes), but when it clears the system, affect (i.e. mood) actually returns to lower levels than before consumption. This is the mechanism that leads to alcoholism, where the consumer no longer takes alcohol to feel good, but to feel normal. So my conclusion is that LDS women (who don't drink) are likely to feel less depressed than mothers who drink, all other things being equal.

[Mordecai]

Yes some of these factors could play a part. However I'm not sure about the "fetus" theory.

Considering a disturbingly high number of women have psychotic episodes shortly after child birth and also considering that there is a good amount of anecdotal evidence suggesting that a high quality nutritional supplement can prevent post-partum depression and the like, it's a rational explanation.

Also, the alcohol argument isn't particularly strong, because alcohol is a depressant drug

On this board, not long ago, we discussed the statistics that showed that people that drink tend to have reduced heart disease, due to it controlling stress, perhaps by lubricating social interaction in large part. If you control stress and fill social needs, in theory, you should also be happier. Not advocating everyone start drinking, but if I were not Mormon, I'd probably drink socially.

Also, drinking can lead to car accidents, stupid mistakes like cheating on one's spouse or getting an STD and often results in not solving one's problems, as it is an escape. Still, it seems useful to alleviate anxiety.

[staccato]

I thought it was a cute yet self-revealing article. However, I don't think these blogs have anything to do with showcasing Mormonism. As the author says, you have to look to find that. These women would be blogging regardless just as they would be doing everything else they do. What interested me was the question begging premise:

Where is she getting the idea that blogs are to prettify lives? One of those "sweet and simple" bloggers had been burned over 80% of her body in a plane crash and says she will be having surguries for life. The trick in making a readable blog is making the mundane look interesting. A lot of it depends on how good of a photographer the author is. Most of the young adults I know keep blogs. They talk about a variety of things not just pretty stuff. That is going to depend on where one is in life anyway. A lot of these blogs are about making it through the student years on minimum wage jobs and student loans. It is a wonderful medium to communicate to family and friends in a very immediate and interesting way. If you can make money out of that is gravy.

So I get the fascination with them. What I don't get is an idea that they aren't a slice of real life. She wouldn't be so obsessed with them if that was true.

Maybe from here?

http://lds.org/ensign/2009/10/finding-and-sharing-the-gospel-online?lang=eng

[nicolasconnault]

On this board, not long ago, we discussed the statistics that showed that people that drink tend to have reduced heart disease, due to it controlling stress, perhaps by lubricating social interaction in large part. If you control stress and fill social needs, in theory, you should also be happier. Not advocating everyone start drinking, but if I were not Mormon, I'd probably drink socially.

Having studied this topic extensively, I have different views. There are undoubtedly benefits from the social interaction that occurs around social drinking, but I don't believe these benefits are derived from alcohol itself. The same could be said about food when it brings people together. I don't believe adding alcohol to a social gathering reduces the stress/depression induced by asociality.

Regarding the reduced heart disease claim, you may not have all the facts. Here is an interesting set of facts related to this claim:

1. The claim is only related to moderate drinkers
2. The studies making this claim typically group drinkers into 3 categories: heavy drinkers, moderate drinkers and total abstainers.
   1. Unsurprisingly, their results show that heavy drinkers have the highest rate of heart disease
   2. The surprise comes when moderate drinkers display less incidence of heart disease than abstainers.
   3. The researchers conclude that a bit of drinking helps prevent heart disease
   4. However, there is a methodological issue in these studies: there is no control for the "previous drinking habits" variable.
   5. Hence, total abstainers include the group of previous alcoholics who have entirely given up, but have suffered long-term/permanent health damage from their drinking practices.
   6. This introduces a confound in the final results, and leads to the wrong conclusions. Further studies that have measured this additional variable have found no beneficial effects of moderate drinking over total abstinence
   7. The beneficial effects of moderate drinking described in studies are cancelled out when occasional "binge" drinking (even as little as once a month) is part of the person's habits
      
      There is more truth in the claim of antioxidants in red wine than in the general assertion that drinking any alcohol moderately protects against heart disease. Red grape juice has the same antioxidants as red wine anyway, so that's another strike against alcohol
      If anyone is interested I can start another thread on this topic, I have plenty of sources to share.

[BCSpace]

Whew! This article sure makes atheistic feminism sound . . . not fun.

Despite the portrayal of being whimsically tempted by the LDS married lifestyle, it really is a hit piece against Mormonism with it's presentation of depression and "some chafe". This type of antiMormonism illustrates the Socialism/Communism of Satan's plan perfectly. Under the Gospel plan, many, and indeed most will fail to achieve the ultimate blessings. Satan's plan however, and it's worldly manifestations, make the impossible promise that "not one shall be lost" with the ultimate blessings guaranteed to all no matter what.

[DH]

This type of antiMormonism illustrates the Socialism/Communism of Satan's plan perfectly. Under the Gospel plan, many, and indeed most will fail to achieve the ultimate blessings. Satan's plan however, and it's worldly manifestations, make the impossible promise that "not one shall be lost" with the ultimate blessings guaranteed to all no matter what.

I'm waiting with bated breath to hear what Socialism and Communism have to do with Mormon mommy bloggers and feminist atheists.

[Jeff K.]

Communism is a form of socialism and is atheistic in its tenets. So it does stand as an opposite to Mormonism in which atheism is of course rejected. Also Marx felt the family was an oppressive traditionalist tool and hoped that capitalism would at least destroy the family (in all fairness the family of the time meant a woman at home could not own property or have equal rights within the family, and as such that is correct). So yes, communism being what it is does indeed have a connection here since it undermines both family and religion.

[thesometimesaint]

Bluebeel:

The implication is that Utah and more specially Mormons are more subject to mental illness(Depression) than the US in general. They are not. See Religion Mental Health and the Latter-day Saints by Daniel K. Lund

Utah traditionally has been a place to test market various products including drugs. Add in that Alcohol is the most used self medication, and Utah has the lowest per capita consumption of alcohol in the United States. These would tend to mitigate against any condemnation of LDS lifestyle.

[Analytics]

Here:

Whew! This article sure makes atheistic feminism sound . . . not fun.

-Smac

You enjoy scanning the Internet looking for news articles that criticize your faith and allow you to respond with righteous indignation. I get that. But I

[bluebell]

Bluebeel:

The implication is that Utah and more specially Mormons are more subject to mental illness(Depression) than the US in general. They are not. See Religion Mental Health and the Latter-day Saints by Daniel K. Lund

I think the implication is that it might not be smart to take every mormon mommy blog at face value. Seems like smart and logical advice.

Utah traditionally has been a place to test market various products including drugs. Add in that Alcohol is the most used self medication, and Utah has the lowest per capita consumption of alcohol in the United States. These would tend to mitigate against any condemnation of LDS lifestyle.

Of course there is an explanation for her statement, but she wasn't writing an article about drug use in utah-she was writing an article about how awesome some mormon women's lives appear to be and why she is envious of them in many ways. She was also pointing out that they might not always represent reality and use the prescription drug use to support her assertion.

Whether her assertion is right or wrong, how can anyone get all bent out of shape for her supplying the evidence she has available to her to support it? She didn't claim the figures proved that the sheen on the mormon mommy blogs was just a lie.

Why do we have to be like the anti-mormons who can read a whole article about how wrong mormonism is, but get all bent out of shape because the author provided one or two positive attributes in the bunch to try to show a more balanced approach?

It's kind of embarrassing that we are so quick to demand only completely positive pieces be published about us or the author is an evil minion of satan. (not speaking to you specifically TSS but to the general claim of many posts in the thread).

[Jeff K.]

You enjoy scanning the Internet looking for news articles that criticize your faith and allow you to respond with righteous indignation. I get that. But I

[thesometimesaint]

Bluebell:

Taking anyone too seriously on blogs goes against the Eleventh Commandment. "How shalt not take thyself too seriously".

I personally liked her overall article. But think there are one or two comments that are technically incorrect, or need further explanation if they are going to be used.

I'm not bent all out of shape. I simply disagree with a couple of her statements.

I never said it did. If anything her article is more of a damning by faint praise.

IF I came across like a Anti-Mormon I do apologize as that was never my intent. Maybe it was the influence of my mothers' years as a school teacher.

Balance is a tricky concept. I don't believe that bringing up a couple of factually inaccurate sentences shows a lack of balance.

[Jeff K.]

I agree sometimessaint, it is a blog, its not "that" bad, and it reflects what saints run into all the time. At best we can hope for a back handed compliment. I would not confuse it as a positive article though.

[smac97]

You enjoy scanning the Internet looking for news articles that criticize your faith

Um, no. I have a bookmarked Google News search for "mormon" OR "mormonism" OR "LDS Church" OR "Latter-day Saints" OR "LDS Church" (click here). The search results are a mixed bag. My online searches are eclectic in nature, not focused on "looking for news articles that criticize your faith."

Any anyway, this article was sort of odd in that it was both critical and complimentary of Mormonism.

and allow you to respond with righteous indignation. I get that.

No, no you don't.

And I don't recall posting any "righteous indignation" about this article.

But I

[Mordecai]

Red grape juice has the same antioxidants as red wine anyway, so that's another strike against alcohol

If you buy red grape juice in the store, it's pasteurized, which destroys the risveratrol. You'd have to buy grapes or get grapes in some other unpasteurized form, protected from oxygen, which is not that easy to find, unfortunately.

Here's an article on eating grapes to get the health benefits and how that is superior to wine, in theory: http://www.thatsfit.ca/2010/05/19/skip-the-red-wine-and-go-straight-to-the-grapes-phytonutrient-p/

Organic grapes might have even more phytonutrients, so that might be the way to go. (Anyone else like Trader Joe's?) Also, if you have a source explaining how the non-drinker statistics were effected by some of their past heavy drinking, that'd be good. Thanks! I still think it seems reasonable that people who drink moderately can more easily enjoy social interaction. Personally, I don't like crowds very much, but I probably would if I were slightly buzzed. In my imagination, it makes sense that if I drank wine, I'd get more social interaction, which would help control my stress. Could be totally wrong, though.

[Jeff K.]

If you buy red grape juice in the store, it's pasteurized, which destroys the risveratrol. You'd have to buy grapes or get grapes in some other unpasteurized form, protected from oxygen, which is not that easy to find, unfortunately.

Here's an article on eating grapes to get the health benefits and how that is superior to wine, in theory: http://www.thatsfit.ca/2010/05/19/skip-the-red-wine-and-go-straight-to-the-grapes-phytonutrient-p/

Organic grapes might have even more phytonutrients, so that might be the way to go. (Anyone else like Trader Joe's?) Also, if you have a source explaining how the non-drinker statistics were effected by some of their past heavy drinking, that'd be good. Thanks! I still think it seems reasonable that people who drink moderately can more easily enjoy social interaction. Personally, I don't like crowds very much, but I probably would if I were slightly buzzed. In my imagination, it makes sense that if I drank wine, I'd get more social interaction, which would help control my stress. Could be totally wrong, though.

Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me.

[Stargazer]

It's quite possible she is following a formula. However, it may be a formula for writing an article, as opposed to a formula for criticizing Mormons. I'm sorry, but I simply don't interpret her article as an attack on the Church. She acknowledges the women may be as happy as they seem, and the "or not" is not necessarily an attack, but could be a simple acknowledgment of reality.

I don't think it's a formula for attacking Mormons. I think it's a formula for writing an article, one that seeks to imply that there's something rotten in Denmark if only we could peel back the deceptively cheerful facade. It is a way of writing (or speaking) that posits things the author didn't find in his or her investigation, but in the interests of appearing to be a clever person, speculates about the unseen negativity. I've read articles about people and topics that had no hidden agenda of finding the rotten center, but just wanted to inform. This article seems to have an agenda, is all I'm saying,.

You talk about running into this kind of thing all too often. Well, I run into the "Us vs. Them," The-World-Is-Out-To-Get-Us mentality all the time, practically every week at Church. I used to think that way, too, but as I've gotten older, experience has shown me that there are a lot of darn good people out there who are not LDS. They may ask questions, and they may not always agree with our point of view, but they are friendly and decent people. I'm just saying, don't jump to conclusions about this author just because she's a feminist atheist and doesn't think the LDS Church is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I don't know where you go to church, but in my ward in Washington state there is very little if any "us vs them" going on, perhaps because here we are small potatoes and go mostly unnoticed by society at large. And we do recognize that much good is done by people of other faiths, and even by people of no faith whatever. From what you've posted it appears you live in Utah, and given that the church is big there (understatement) it can become a target and in fact is a target of some people and organziations.

I mostly see these "it's lovely, BUT" things going on in pieces publicized elsewhere than where I live. They do exist, and sometimes they actually mean to imply slanderous things.

On the other hand, Bluebell doesn't see the article in the same light, and I suppose it's possible that the writer of this article didn't mean things to be read the way some of us are understanding it. I'm open to the idea that I'm being too nitpicky.

[BCSpace]

This type of antiMormonism illustrates the Socialism/Communism of Satan's plan perfectly. Under the Gospel plan, many, and indeed most will fail to achieve the ultimate blessings. Satan's plan however, and it's worldly manifestations, make the impossible promise that "not one shall be lost" with the ultimate blessings guaranteed to all no matter what.

I'm waiting with bated breath to hear what Socialism and Communism have to do with Mormon mommy bloggers and feminist atheists.

Well, I think that by cutting off the first part of what I said in your quote, you miss the connection.