divinenature Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 A major weak spot for me is that God is a murderer and commands murder. (sorry that sounds so bad)God supposedly supports agency. It was so important that he damned a third part of his children for exercising their agency. Yet, he murders his children residing on earth if they are naughty or curses them in some way. How is that allowing agency if you are murdered for exercising it? If I put a gun to my childs head and tell them that they better wash their hands or I will shoot them, they cannot properly use agency. To me that is exactly what taking away agency would be like-you get killed if you don't obey.In fact, many millions of people do not or have not had agency while alive. Seems that only an itty bitty tiny portion of humans have ever had agency. Looking at how most human beings have lived makes it really strange to think that this life is any kind of test of how agency will be used.Another problem is that God gave everyone the Light of Christ, but there are supposed commands that have gone against the Light of Christ. Nephi is a perfect example. The Light of Christ (or something like it) caused him to shrink against killing Laban, but according to the story the Holy Ghost told him to override that impulse. Another example would be some of the reactions of the early saints to the plural wife practice. The Light of Christ (or something like it) caused them to be sick inside over it, but they let other influences override that original impulse. So, it looks like sometimes the Light of Christ and the Holy Ghost are at odds with one another.To compound that weakness, Nephi uses the same reasoning to kill Laban as was used to kill Jesus. That could be seen as a weakness in the BoM text or a weakness in the thought process of Nephi....or it could be that Laban is supposed to be seen as a Christ figure and that just isn't how it is taught.Then something that I pondered for awhile was the idea that we had to be free from shedding innocent blood and the concept that we were glad to shed the innocent blood of Jesus to save ourselves. That makes no sense. I mean, some of the scriptures about washing clean in the blood of the lamb would get in my minds eye and I don't think that you can get blood on yourself to get yourself clean and pure.We read, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." So shouldn't we be willing to die rather than let an innocent person take the heat for us?But, at the same time, all these things really make you think. Like meditating on a koan.
Thinking Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 What is the purpose of a child to parent sealing?If you are not sealed to your mother or father will your exaltation be in jeopardy?
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 consiglieri:I don't believe the Holy Ghost is a weak spot at all. Rather one of our strengths.I believe that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. The Gift of the Holy Ghost is right of members of the Church to his constant presence if we so live by the spirit. The Light of Christ is the knowing right from wrong, and is given to all mankind. To give an example. I am a personage of flesh and bone sitting behind a computer screen. But my influence(light) can be felt by anyone with a computer, and a desire to read what I type.Agreed..not a weakness.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 What is the purpose of a child to parent sealing?If you are not sealed to your mother or father will your exaltation be in jeopardy?No
SilverKnight Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 A major weak spot for me is that God is a murderer and commands murder. (sorry that sounds so bad)This is less of a problem for mormon theology and more of a problem for Christianity.
divinenature Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 This is less of a problem for mormon theology and more of a problem for Christianity.It is equally a problem for Mormon theology as it is for any Judeo-Christian faiths with literal belief in those passages of scripture.Mormonism has the added complication of Jehovah, OT God, being Jesus.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 It is equally a problem for Mormon theology as it is for any Judeo-Christian faiths with literal belief in those passages of scripture.Mormonism has the added complication of Jehovah, OT God, being Jesus.Sorry, we don't it is that simple. ANd Jesus being Jehovah, which is is/was, is not a complication at all.
semlogo Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 It is equally a problem for Mormon theology as it is for any Judeo-Christian faiths with literal belief in those passages of scripture.Mormonism has the added complication of Jehovah, OT God, being Jesus.I wasn't aware that this was unique to Mormonism.
SilverKnight Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 It is equally a problem for Mormon theology as it is for any Judeo-Christian faiths with literal belief in those passages of scripture.No it's not.Mormons add the caveat that the bible may not be translated entirely correctly, allowing mormons 'wiggle room' to discard OT unpleasantness.For example- Check out the scriptural footnotes in 2nd Kings where Elisha summons two "she-bears" to slaughter some 'little children' who are mocking him.Also, mormonism actively teaches that more contemporary revelation, doctrine and scripture takes precedence over older scripture.The Old Testament, the most violent of the LDS canon, essentially occupies the lowest rung of scriptural importance and relevance.Mormonism has the added complication of Jehovah, OT God, being Jesus.Christians also believe the God of the Old Testament is essentially the same being as Jesus, so it's not an added complication.
TAO Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 You should know that this answer would not be at all satisfactory.You aren't looking for an answer though, so even if I gave a satisfactory one, I am not so sure it would do very much good.Trying to determine the spirit is like nailing jello to a wall.Only to those who doubt. Doubt is what turns it to jello. It's like being afraid when you skydive the first time; it can sometimes cause mistakes. Fear and Doubt lead to the 'jelloness' you describe.Did he answer? Did he not answer? Was it really just a false spirit? Or was it just heartburn? Did it come from inside my head?Thus why it is up to each person individually to determine what he thinks it is. You are responsible for your own choices - so act cautiously, and responsibly.In any case, when I have doubts, I find the best solution is to keep on praying for confirmation.
TAO Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 What is the purpose of a child to parent sealing?If you are not sealed to your mother or father will your exaltation be in jeopardy?No... because the work will be done later. If it was not done ever... perhaps.
evangelist Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 From what I see on the "God is man" threads, it appears this concept is pretty shaky.Good observation!one love
evangelist Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 From what I see on the "God is man" threads, it appears this concept is pretty shaky.Glad that you are investegation the God man
Zakuska Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 What is the purpose of a child to parent sealing?If you are not sealed to your mother or father will your exaltation be in jeopardy?If you arnt sealed to you mother and father... then when the book of the living is reviewed at the judgment and the ressurecting begings.(The first shall be last and the last shall be first and all) How will they know to ressurect you?
CV75 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 What is the purpose of a child to parent sealing? If you are not sealed to your mother or father will your exaltation be in jeopardy?It is how the Lord organizes the gathering of His children into the patriarchal order for the continuation of His work in the eternities. The sealing takes place a) at birth, when the child is born within the parents' covenant; b) in a temple ordinance if the child was not born within the parents' covenant and is sealed to them later; c) post-posthumously by proxy temple work. If you are not sealed to your mother or father because they are not sealed to each other, your exaltation will not be in jeopardy because you will be sealed into another patriarchal line (your exaltation being realized of course is then between you and the Lord regardless of who you are sealed to).
todd520 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 All the teachings based off speculation but portrayed as based off scripture and revelation.I think these teachings cause the most heartache. However, when they are presented as speculation, they go down nicely without an upset tummy.
Deborah Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I think if there are any "weak" spots, it's not the theology that is weak but the understanding we have of the principles. Doctrines such as the eternal nature of families and work for the dead are very deep and I think we only get a glimpse of the surface of these things. I don't think we have the means with our finite understanding of comprehending how profound these things are.
Hestia Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 ...I think these teachings cause the most heartache. However, when they are presented as speculation, they go down nicely without an upset tummy.If the extent of your contribution is to insult you can take your discussion elsewhere.
sunstoned Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 No it's not.Christians also believe the God of the Old Testament is essentially the same being as Jesus, so it's not an added complication.To me this goes way beyond translation problems. The OT is full of God commanded genocide, plus a lot of other really weird stuff. If you take the OT at face value, then God does not come out look real good. IMHO it
krose Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 My late contribution:1- "Families are forever." When thought out to its conclusion (everyone being sealed to everyone above and below them in the family tree), it amounts, in practice, to no more than a man and his wife/wives being continuously together. And since there is no indication that couples in the lower kingdoms will not be allowed to associate with each other for eternity, it seems like a distinction in name only (setting aside the idea of continued reproduction, which is murky anyway).2- Three distinct kingdoms of glory. While this might be considered an improvement on the classical heaven/hell model of an afterlife, it has serious problems when considered practically. Hard divisions cause problems for the multitudes who will fall right on the borders of qualifying for one kingdom rather than another. Anyone who has ever given grades knows that sometimes students' scores will put them right on the borderline between two letter grades, where one more point during the term would have made the difference. But the idea that one single, minor action (worth a single "point," so to speak) during one's life might have been just enough to tip the scale to Terrestrial rather than Telestial for eternity is a bit bizarre. 3- Priesthood healing blessings. Specifically (assuming, for this discussion, the existence of the god of Mormon teachings), the idea that a man with special authority could get God to heal a person that God didn't already intend to heal. Or on the flip side, that God would fail to heal someone that he wanted to because a priesthood holder was not available to give a blessing. The "if it is thy will" caveat leaves the healing decision where it already was... in the hands of God. The blessing would not change that.
Rob Osborn Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 My late contribution:2- Three distinct kingdoms of glory. While this might be considered an improvement on the classical heaven/hell model of an afterlife, it has serious problems when considered practically. Hard divisions cause problems for the multitudes who will fall right on the borders of qualifying for one kingdom rather than another. Anyone who has ever given grades knows that sometimes students' scores will put them right on the borderline between two letter grades, where one more point during the term would have made the difference. But the idea that one single, minor action (worth a single "point," so to speak) during one's life might have been just enough to tip the scale to Terrestrial rather than Telestial for eternity is a bit bizarre. This i too find rather strange. In other terms I look at the world and the church and the association of members and nonmembers. For instance- we do not have Celestial, terrestrial and telestial pews for members/nonmembers to sit at in church. People can pretty much sit where they want and associate with whom they wish to. As for salvation, the church views only two kinds of people- members (saints), and nonmembers/prospective members. Of these two groups they are classified as either saved and part of the fold or unsaved and lost from the fold. We don't walk around with classifying or class distinctions with people. We do not say "son, please don't go and hang out with telestial grade individuals". Even at the temple we all wear white and are basically all considered equals even if some have been going their entire life and others it being their first time. In the real world we don't separate ourselves by class of the good, better and best. The church doesn't even teach this. So why this class distinction of the saved? Christ comes into the world to save the world which means all that can be saved collectively. He thus saves them all as the "kingdom", not "kingdoms". This too me really begins to fail when we truly begin to understand the nature of the gospel and how it saves- the very principles of salvation. For instance- there are not separate laws that one adheres to for gaining salvation than another and yet our plan of salvation supposes that there are different laws.Repentance is repentance, there are no shortcuts. Forgiveness from sins only happens one way, not several ways. There are not "paths" of salvation but rather "one path" leading back to God. Some in the church have even supposed that telestial law is carnal law, or in other terms- basic wickedness. But this isn't law, it's the absence of it and leads not to salvation but to damnation in hell. No one is saved for being wicked- that's ridiculous. And yet, somehow we teach it. For me, the whole kingdoms of glory in our plan of salvation is definately weak.
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