consiglieri Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 At the outset, let me say that I find LDS theology to hold together and be more internally consistent than other forms of Christianity with which I am familiar.Nevertheless, there do appear to be some "weak spots."By "weak spots," I mean beliefs that do not seem to jibe well with the rest of the picture, and which give (to me, at least) indication of having been created after the fact to "fill in the holes."One such area involves the Holy Ghost, which seems in the Lectures on Faith to have been a substance (definitely not a third person in the Godhead), and then in Nauvoo becomes a personage of spirit, and then even later on after Joseph Smith's passing, the Holy Ghost comes to be defined as the personage of spirit and the Holy Spirit is defined as the ubiquitous spirit substance.Then there is the "weak spot" involving the difference between the Light of Christ (given to every person), and the Holy Ghost, which is divided up into The Influence of the Holy Ghost (which everybody may receive prior to baptism, but only insofar as it testifies of the Book of Mormon and leads a person to baptism), and the Gift of the Holy Ghost (which is defined as the right to have the Holy Ghost as a constant companion).All of these differences and "tweaking" of concepts seems the result of attempts to harmonize "conflicting" authorities, as well as to flesh out the LDS Plan of Salvation.Other examples occur to me, but I am wondering whether anybody else believes in the existence of "weak spots" in LDS Theology, and if so, what some of those might be.All the Best!--Consiglieri
SilverKnight Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 - Does God the Father have a Father? (Ad infinitum)- If the gospel is so critically important, why have most humans never heard of it?- Our anthropomorphic bodies are clearly the result of evolution - so why does God have one?- The 1/3 of the hosts of heaven siding with Lucifer, hundreds of billions of supposedly free-willed spirits - why would they do this?
thesometimesaint Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 consiglieri:I don't believe the Holy Ghost is a weak spot at all. Rather one of our strengths.I believe that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. The Gift of the Holy Ghost is right of members of the Church to his constant presence if we so live by the spirit. The Light of Christ is the knowing right from wrong, and is given to all mankind. To give an example. I am a personage of flesh and bone sitting behind a computer screen. But my influence(light) can be felt by anyone with a computer, and a desire to read what I type.
Joseph Antley Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Curse of Cain/Popular GA teachings later being disavowed.
paulpatter Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 At the outset, let me say that I find LDS theology to hold together and be more internally consistent than other forms of Christianity with which I am familiar.Nevertheless, there do appear to be some "weak spots."By "weak spots," I mean beliefs that do not seem to jibe well with the rest of the picture, and which give (to me, at least) indication of having been created after the fact to "fill in the holes."One such area involves the Holy Ghost, which seems in the Lectures on Faith to have been a substance (definitely not a third person in the Godhead), and then in Nauvoo becomes a personage of spirit, and then even later on after Joseph Smith's passing, the Holy Ghost comes to be defined as the personage of spirit and the Holy Spirit is defined as the ubiquitous spirit substance.Then there is the "weak spot" involving the difference between the Light of Christ (given to every person), and the Holy Ghost, which is divided up into The Influence of the Holy Ghost (which everybody may receive prior to baptism, but only insofar as it testifies of the Book of Mormon and leads a person to baptism), and the Gift of the Holy Ghost (which is defined as the right to have the Holy Ghost as a constant companion).All of these differences and "tweaking" of concepts seems the result of attempts to harmonize "conflicting" authorities, as well as to flesh out the LDS Plan of Salvation.Other examples occur to me, but I am wondering whether anybody else believes in the existence of "weak spots" in LDS Theology, and if so, what some of those might be.All the Best!--ConsiglieriThere are "weak spots" in every religion, because every religion requires a suspension of disbelief about certain aspects of its doctrine. For me, LDS weak spots help to explain the rationale for the first principle of the Gospel--faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The following statement by Elder Stephen L Richards is instructive:Why is it so difficult to accept things on faith? I think I can suggest an answer. It is because we are so conceited. Men of the world are in the world only because they adopt the philosophy of self-sufficiency. It is not a humble philosophy--it is highly egotistical. It makes men themselves the arbiters of all things. They look to no higher source than themselves for the solution of all questions. . . . . I think that altogether too often we permit thinking complexes and sophisticated reasoning to warp our intuitive judgment and entrammel the spontaneous feelings and emotions of our souls. CR1935Apr:30-31
Senator Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 From what I see on the "God is man" threads, it appears this concept is pretty shaky.
mercyngrace Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 From what I see on the "God is man" threads, it appears this concept is pretty shaky.Which strikes me as odd since the KFD and all it implies is a linchpin for me.edit: The biggest weakness I see is that we don't always practice what we preach, institutionally or individually.
Brenda Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 I know I come across as your typical TBM, but I really don't see any of these as "weak" spots. Just things we don't understand yet. Now if you substituted the word challenging for the word weak, then I'm with ya.
Deborah Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 I know I come across as your typical TBM, but I really don't see any of these as "weak" spots. Just things we don't understand yet. Now if you substituted the word challenging for the word weak, then I'm with ya.Ditto!
Senator Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 I know I come across as your typical TBM, but I really don't see any of these as "weak" spots. Just things we don't understand yet. Now if you substituted the word challenging for the word weak, then I'm with ya.Well, ignorance is a weakness.Go ahead Brenda, I know you can say it!.....WEEAAKNEEEESSS....[jus teasin ya]
Senator Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 The Gift of the Holy Ghost is right of members of the Church to his constant presence if we so live by the spirit. How would you convince some of our good christian friends that they are not privy to the Holy Ghost, yet you are?
consiglieri Posted January 7, 2011 Author Posted January 7, 2011 The Gift of the Holy Ghost is right of members of the Church to his constant presence if we so live by the spirit. And not to pile on, TSS, but where on earth does this idea come from?It is mentioned nowhere in the scriptures, but is repeated so frequently in the Church today, one would think it were a cardinal tenet.This is one indication it is a "weak spot" . . .All the Best!--Consiglieri
Chris Smith Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Consig,One such weak spot is spirit birth. This seems designed to reconcile the eternal pre-existence of intelligences with the notion that God is literally our father and Christ literally our brother.Peace,-Chris
consiglieri Posted January 7, 2011 Author Posted January 7, 2011 Consig,One such weak spot is spirit birth. This seems designed to reconcile the eternal pre-existence of intelligences with the notion that God is literally our father and Christ literally our brother.Peace,-ChrisA fair point, Chris.I think this exercise can be healthy because, at least for me, it is generally easier to identify "weak spots" in the religious tenets of other churches.For example, I have long thought it shaky that the Jehovah's Witnesses have their "sacrament" observation once a year on the Jewish Passover, and nobody partakes of the bread and the wine except those who "feel they have been moved on by the Spirit" such that they "know" they are among the 144,000 of the ruling class.It doesn't mean it's wrong. It just means it's weak.I think that if we turn this microscope on our own beliefs, "weak spots" in Mormon theology may signal opportunities for growth and learning.All the Best!--Consiglieri
TAO Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Well, ignorance is a weakness.I disagree, ignorance is not a weakness, it is a state of being.Go ahead Brenda, I know you can say it!.....WEEAAKNEEEESSS....Ether 12:27 ;-)
mercyngrace Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 And not to pile on, TSS, but where on earth does this idea come from?It is mentioned nowhere in the scriptures, but is repeated so frequently in the Church today, one would think it were a cardinal tenet.This is one indication it is a "weak spot" . . .All the Best!--ConsiglieriComes from the sacrament prayers.We covenant to always remember Him, keep His commandments, etc and we do so that we may always have His Spirit to be with us.edit: I do want to add, though, that I agree this is a weak spot. IMO, we have seriously mischaracterized the HG and the associated function of this priesthood office. I think there are explanations within our doctrine but we don't teach them or teach them well.
Nathair/|\ Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Elder BH Roberts did point out some weaknesses in the BoM. Since then, most of the things on his list have been resolved. Not sure if it counts as a weakness or not, but it seems to me that the membership of the church are not so much those who deserve the blessings of the gospel as those who most need them (especially me.)
nicolasconnault Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 <TIC>The weak spots of LDS theology are the participants of this forum.</TIC>
Mortal Man Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 I am wondering whether anybody else believes in the existence of "weak spots" in LDS Theology, and if so, what some of those might be.The teaching that all children who die before the age of accountability are automatically saved in the Celestial Kingdom is a weak spot. The best thing you can do for your children, therefore, is to kill them before their 8th birthday.
Mortal Man Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Elder BH Roberts did point out some weaknesses in the BoM. Since then, most of the things on his list have been resolved. I hear this frequently but I've yet to see anyone demonstrate how anything on his list has been resolved without creating bigger problems.Roberts' studies are as relevant today as they were in 1922.
Chris Smith Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 The teaching that all children who die before the age of accountability are automatically saved in the Celestial Kingdom is a weak spot.Yes. And one could add the automatic salvation of aborted babies and the mentally handicapped. These kind of fly in the face of the ideas that we come to earth to be tested and/or to get a physical body.
nicolasconnault Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 The teaching that all children who die before the age of accountability are automatically saved in the Celestial Kingdom is a weak spot. The best thing you can do for your children, therefore, is to kill them before their 8th birthday.There's a weak spot in your reasoning: children younger than 8 can't usually have children of their own
Mortal Man Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Yes. And one could add the automatic salvation of aborted babies and the mentally handicapped. These kind of fly in the face of the ideas that we come to earth to be tested and/or to get a physical body.The severely mentally handicapped pose a problem for all religions. Some born with severe Down Syndrome can do nothing more than lie on the bed and drool. On my mission we did service at a state facility for these people. It is hard to see the purpose in life for a man with no brain above the stem or a girl who can only make involuntary noises out of both her mouths.
Brenda Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Ether 12:27 ;-) I SO wish I had thought of this answer.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.