If you were not LDS....

[bluebell]

Which is why I generally keep my opinion to myself.

I had gotten over alot of what happened in my youth, but with the way this year has gone, it's all been up in my face again.

I give credit to the devil and his minions for trying to keep me from rejoining the Church, or it's the same group trying to cause my new wife and I to split up. You can all it wishful thinking or deluding myself if you choose, it's just what I happened to believe at the moment.

In any case, it's been a rotten year, and while there may eventually be a light at the end of the tunnel, it isn't in sight yet. I just hope when we do see it, the darn thing isn't another oncoming train.

I've had three years like this myself.

One of the hardest things about having faith and being obedient is being able to say 'come what may, i will believe' and actually mean the 'come what may' part.

[SilverKnight]

Really? So it is the outsiders fault? I have heard MANY stories of non-LDS people growing up in Utah, who's Mormon schoolmates could not play with them because the were not Mormon. This constant denial of culpability for any issues amoung the LDS people is disturbing..

"Highest rate of anti-depressant use in Utah." answered with "Well, Utah does have a lot of non-Mormons."

"Highest rate of subscription to porn sites in Utah.' answered with "Well, not everyone in Utah is Mormon."

etc..

Such pride is astonishing.

This little flare-up of ignorant bigotry makes you look like a true buffoon: BlueAdept is Catholic.

[blueadept]

As a nevermo, I believe I could live in Utah with my LDS relatives and have no issues today.

Ask me this question 10 years ago and I'm quite sure my answer would be different.

The only thing that has changed is my approach.

My 2 cents.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

This little flare-up of ignorant bigotry makes you look like a true buffoon: BlueAdept is Catholic.

Be that as it may... I stand behind my statements 100%. The refusal of many LDS to honestly evaluate their own culture is breathtaking.

[Jeff K.]

I have lived in the southern bible belt. Allow me to say that some are very clear that they consider Mormons to be more than merely a cult, but a dangerous cult, and such people can indeed make life very difficult. But I also know wonderful gracious southerners who do not understand our religion, but are polite and while they may be southern baptists, they also judge us by more than our religion, they also judge us by what they see.

It goes both ways. In a sense I am the opposite of elf in that I converted to the church in the south and did receive some negative responses as well positive ones.

My testimony was impacted at a greater measure when I moved to Utah and came to an understanding that being LDS ceased to make me unique and that the many other "unique" LDS were ready to take advantage of my naivete. It helped me realize that while the church is true, individuals who make up the hues of many different grades of people, are sometimes less than being so.

[SilverKnight]

"Highest rate of anti-depressant use in Utah." answered with "Well, Utah does have a lot of non-Mormons."

"Highest rate of subscription to porn sites in Utah.' answered with "Well, not everyone in Utah is Mormon."

Lest your ignorance fester let me help you out:

- Anti-depressant use is highest in middle- to upper-class, educated adults who are better at diagnosing and getting treated for depression issues. Utah has a large percentage of those.

- Subscription to porn sites is highest among single adult males who do not have a regular sexual partner. Utah has a large percentage of those.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Lest your ignorance fester let me help you out:

- Anti-depressant use is highest in middle- to upper-class, educated adults who are better at diagnosing and getting treated for depression issues. Utah has a large percentage of those.

- Subscription to porn sites is highest among single adult males who do not have a regular sexual partner. Utah has a large percentage of those.

So Utah has a larger rate of anti-depressant use because they are smarter?

Gotcha.

[Jeff K.]

Be that as it may... I stand behind my statements 100%. I LDS refusal to honestly evaluate it's own culture is breathtaking.

Which LDS culture do you mean? The Southesastern LDS culture? Perhaps you mean Utah? Or that of California? Southwestern? Perhaps Mexican LDS culture? LDS culture is not singularly Utah, nor is it singularly anything. And yes, we constantly re-evaluate, whether it is my present ward here in the OC, or my past ward inland, or the branch in Mexico. I know of no LDS bishop that has said "all is well in Zion" and felt there was no need to evaluate their wards.

What I find breathtaking is an overly general response regarding a thin sliver of the church and presuming it to be monolithically the same everywhere. Now that is indeed a breathtaking and sweeping generalization.

[ELF1024]

Be that as it may... I stand behind my statements 100%. I LDS refusal to honestly evaluate it's own culture is breathtaking.

And I suppose Autism rates in Utah are higher because LDS familes are being cursed?

I suppose Cancer rates are higher in Utah because the Church is false, and has nothing to do with the nuclear testing in Nevada (when the wind wasn't blowing towards California)?

I suppose next your going to say that when the "BIG ONE" hits the Watsach Range that it was the LDS Church's fault.

Utah is not entirely represenative of LDS Culture. The majority of LDS members do not live in Utah anymore, and haven't for several decades.

(That being said, I would rather live anywhere than Utah)

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Which LDS culture do you mean? The Southesastern LDS culture? Perhaps you mean Utah? Or that of California? Southwestern? Perhaps Mexican LDS culture? LDS culture is not singularly Utah, nor is it singularly anything. And yes, we constantly re-evaluate, whether it is my present ward here in the OC, or my past ward inland, or the branch in Mexico. I know of no LDS bishop that has said "all is well in Zion" and felt there was no need to evaluate their wards.

What I find breathtaking is an overly general response regarding a thin sliver of the church and presuming it to be monolithically the same everywhere. Now that is indeed a breathtaking and sweeping generalization.

I actually corrected my post to not be so broad... I mean LDS American culture in general, especially in the West.

[Jeff K.]

The statement still stands. Cultures are remarkably different among LDS in the US, and even in the more specific western region.

[bluebell]

So Utah has a larger rate of anti-depressant use because they are smarter?

Gotcha.

No, because they are in a demographic that is less likely to self-medicate with drugs and alcohol or for-go treatment all together.

[SilverKnight]

So Utah has a larger rate of anti-depressant use because they are smarter?

Gotcha.

No, Utah has a higher rate of anti-depressant use because they have a high proportion of middle-class, educated people - the type of people who are likely to have health insurance, access to medical professionals, and are likely to recognize the symptoms of depression and get treated for it.

If you were smarter you would have realized that.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

And I suppose Autism rates in Utah are higher because LDS familes are being cursed?

I suppose Cancer rates are higher in Utah because the Church is false, and has nothing to do with the nuclear testing in Nevada (when the wind wasn't blowing towards California)?

I suppose next your going to say that when the "BIG ONE" hits the Watsach Range that it was the LDS Church's fault.

Utah is not entirely represenative of LDS Culture. The majority of LDS members do not live in Utah anymore, and haven't for several decades.

Simmer down... no one is being cursed. I know it is easier for me to be the big bad anti-Mormon guy, but I'm not.

The states with longer, colder winters, and thus less natural Vitamin D through sunlight, seem to have higher rates of autism. Utah fits that.

Outside of Salt Lake County a significant majority are still LDS. You make it sound like you are a minority in the state.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

The statement still stands. Cultures are remarkably different among LDS in the US, and even in the more specific western region.

Believe me I know, I grew up LDS outside of Utah. Boy, I am glad I did. But that doesn't take away my experience in seeing many LDS folks struggle with confronting any cultural issues that they perceive may make "the church" look less then perfect.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

No, Utah has a higher rate of anti-depressant use because they have a high proportion of middle-class, educated people - the type of people who are likely to have health insurance, access to medical professionals, and are likely to recognize the symptoms of depression and get treated for it.

If you were smarter you would have realized that.

OK... So they use more anti-depressants in Utah because they are smarter and wealthier? It couldn't possibly have anything to due with the cultural expectation of perfection in all things and a smile while you do it?

I stand corrected.

Thanks.

[SilverKnight]

OK... So they use more anti-depressants in Utah because they are smarter and wealthier?

Yes - among other things.

It couldn't possibly have anything to due with the cultural expectation of perfection in all things and a smile while you do it?

Nope, because similar non-LDS demographic groups have comparable rates of anti-depression use.

If you are white, American, middle class, educated and live in a cold place, you have a higher likelihood of suffering depression, and, most importantly, getting treated for it and being recorded for a medical survey.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Yes - among other things.

Nope, because similar non-LDS demographic groups have comparable rates of anti-depression use.

If you are white, American, middle class, educated and live in a cold place, you have a higher likelihood of suffering depression, and, most importantly, getting treated for it and being recorded for a medical survey.

Twice the national average. Twice.

[Ahab]

If you are white, American, middle class, educated and live in a cold place, you have a higher likelihood of suffering depression, and, most importantly, getting treated for it and being recorded for a medical survey.

Hmm. It's probably the cold place that does it.

Surely there's nothing depressing about being white, American, middle class, educated, and living.

[SilverKnight]

Twice the national average. Twice.

Is that all?

I would expect the demographic group I described to be even higher than twice the national average.

But you are clearly not interested in the actual causality behind the statistics.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

This discussion has gone beyond the scope of why I came to this site. I came to share my perspective on things as a non-LDS Book of Mormon Believer and try to build some understanding among the Book of Mormon believers in the various Restoration churches, not to contend about LDS sociological issues. I apologize for being contentious and my poor attempt at doing what I am trying to do. I am still learning and growing, bear with me. I will try to be wiser in my choice of discussion and the words I use. Your brother in Christ.

[Anakin7]

As the originator of this thread I wonder why when many a time a thread is posted such as this one and after a few posts the topic is completly off topic and the gloves come off just like the great apostacy it has gone astray !.

Salvation Is In Jesus Christ The Person

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

[blueadept]

This I am still learning and growing, bear with me. I will try to be wiser in my choice of discussion and the words I use. Your brother in Christ.

Welcome to the world of apologetics.

The moderators actually make it possible for both LDS and non-LDS to have reasonable discussions and I've toned down a bit to find that happy medium to discuss religion here and have made a few friends.

Good luck in your quest.

[zelder]

I would be agnostic. I would be aloof to it all but open minded.

[Ahab]

As the originator of this thread I wonder why when many a time a thread is posted such as this one and after a few posts the topic is completly off topic and the gloves come off just like the great apostacy it has gone astray !.

Salvation Is In Jesus Christ The Person

Anakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

Was there a question in there, somewhere?

The question was where would we be if we were not LDS, and the answers to your question have lead us to where we are now in this thread.

What makes you think we're off topic?