Parable of Sheep and Goats and salvation requirements

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Not only that, but in the very NEXT VERSE it says; 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ

[Zakuska]

Christ alone has done everything necessary for salvation.

Peter sure missed that memo!

2 Peter 1

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

If Christ did it all that was necessary then why is Peter telling us to "DILIGENTLY ADD" things to our faith for the express purpose of guarenteeing our place in heaven?

Surley Peter the great would not be preaching something different than the cobbled together Gospel Echo is preaching! Would he?

God does all the work of bringing people to faith in Christ's completed work.

Paul surely missed that memo!

Rom. 2: 16

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Rom. 16: 25

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Rom. 11: 14

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

1 Cor. 9: 22

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

What the heck was he doing preaching his own Gospel and trying to save people? Didn't he know that Christ already saved everyone?

And why is he trying to "provoke men to emulation" to save them? I thought we didn't have to DO anything to be saved?! Since Christ alreadfy did it all!

Men can resist God's work.

So then men are more powerful than God? Is that really what you are saying Echo?

[Echo]

By whom? From what I've seen, Walker has provided evidence of the meaning of the Greek words in the time and culture in which they were purportedly penned.

In response, I

[Echo]

Acts 10:34

[Echo]

And His giving them to us was a grace!

No disagreement here

[WalkerW]

The term "grace" and it's meaning in the time and culture in which they were penned is defined likewise in concordances.

Considering I've provided scholarly articles that explain how the words were used, I'm not up for just taking your assertions on the definitions.

[Echo]

You have not answered my question. Lets make it simple.

If our claim to having a living prophet who is God's spokesman, is God not allowed to give any further commandments? Yes or no.

After you say yes or no you can expand on your answer.

The problem with answering your question is that your claim to having a living prophet isn't biblical. How can I answer that then.

There is no need for God to given further commandments. Jesus is the END of the law as scripture states.

[Echo]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is a classic! I'm making it my new sig.

That was a typo. It should be oppose not appose

[Echo]

You are funny. The Law and the Prophets are two of the three divisions of the Old Testament, as they are called in Judaism. The Law is the Torah, the Pentateuch. So Christ here speaks of fulfilling prophecies, not that all laws and commandments were given.

Prophecies are not laws. In this verse Jesus said he came to fulfill the law. Of course he fullfilled prophecy as well but that is not what this verse is refering to.

[Doctor Steuss]

The term "grace" and it's meaning in the time and culture in which they were penned is defined likewise in concordances.

Besides this being continued assertion without evidence; a concordance

[volgadon]

The problem with answering your question is that your claim to having a living prophet isn't biblical. How can I answer that then.

There is no need for God to given further commandments. Jesus is the END of the law as scripture states.

CFR on living prophets being unbiblical. It is very biblical, in fact, what do you think the Bible is if not a record of prophets?

So what you are really saying is that no, God cannot give any further commandments. A little arrogant and presumptious on your part, isn't it?

[volgadon]

That was a typo. It should be oppose not appose

It is not the typo I find funny.

[Echo]

You cite Romans 3 and draw conclusions different than what is in the Bible. Romans is talking about the Jew and Gentile, and how there is no advantage between the two. The Jews were trumpeting their status as God's chosen people because they had the Law of Moses. Paul was teaching them that the deeds of the Law of Moses would not bring salvation. All of Romans is speaking about the works and deeds of the Law of Moses, not about the deeds and works of teachings of Christ. Verse 28 has the conclusion: "28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.". Again, "deeds of the law" are the deeds of the Law of Moses. The deeds of faith and grace are: Repentance, baptism, receive the Holy Ghost, keep the commandments.

I think you missed the scripture. It says "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out...". Add to this: "Luke 3: 8

8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.". Is John telling God to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance? No. He is telling the individual to bring forth fruit. God has no need of repentance, we do. Repentance is not God's work, it is ours. God's part is forgiveness.

What the gospel reveals is that the grace of God enables our actions to mean something. Salvation comes through the grace of Christ as we follow His teachings and obey His commandments.

You are saying Christ's ministry, His teachings, and the commandments are meaningless. There is nothing to them, as we need not follow nor obey them, and still we receive salvation. We do nothing, God does everything.

Romans 2:6 states that God will render to every man according to their deeds. What will He render then? Salvation, according to you, is already obtained, is there something more than salvation?

If, as you imply, God does all the work, how then will we be judged by our own works?

Very simply, we are saved by grace through faith. Right there it says that grace is not alone. Do you believe dead faith will allow grace to save? If you believe works are a product of salvation, then works were not present for salvation, and you state that dead faith is all we need.

You havn't been reading the thread so I am likewise not going to waste time answering you with too much effort and time. If a horse is salvation then works are the cart being pulled by the horse. We are discussing the horse and not the cart. Works have no place in the discussion of how we are saved(horse) That comes later.

[volgadon]

Prophecies are not laws. In this verse Jesus said he came to fulfill the law. Of course he fullfilled prophecy as well but that is not what this verse is refering to.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am come not to destroy, but to fulfil.

Christ in this verse does not say he is come to fulfil the law. He is the fulfilment of the OT, which is what the law and the prophets means.

Have you no idea what tanakh is?

[thesometimesaint]

volgadon:

And Anti Biblical as well.

Ephesians 4:11-13

[Echo]

Tell me, how does one resist God's work? By conintuing to sin?? Well there is nothing I can do about that, right?

You can listen or you can refuse to listen

Again I cannot find one verse of scripture that tells us that God has unconditionally forgiven us of our sins. Reconcile does not mean unconditional.

It sure does mean unconditional because he reconciled the whole world not counting mens sins against them. He didn't just reconcile those who met conditions. The verse clearly says he reconciled the whole world to himself.

The sinful man in all of us would like nothing better than to think there must be conditions we must meet or can meet. The root of that is pride. Humility recognizes our utter inablity to meet the conditions.

[volgadon]

It sure does mean unconditional because he reconciled the whole world not counting mens sins against them. He didn't just reconcile those who met conditions. The verse clearly says he reconciled the whole world to himself.

Doesn't say how, nor does it preclude conditions. Don't you think such an important doctrine would be stated clearly in God's word?

[Echo]

Were is this doctrine taught in the bible? I am not familiar with any such verse, or even a verse that could be construed as such. I would think that if such a doctrine exsisted it would need to be in the bible.

Mathew 15:9 "They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

Luke 11:46 "Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them."

[volgadon]

Humility recognizes our utter inablity to meet the conditions.

Without God's help.

[Zakuska]

The problem with answering your question is that your claim to having a living prophet isn't biblical. How can I answer that then.

There is no need for God to given further commandments. Jesus is the END of the law as scripture states.

And yet we are still under law...

James 1: 25

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2: 12

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

[Vance]

You can listen or you can refuse to listen

So, he has to DO SOMETHING to be saved, thus invalidating your "grace alone" drivel.

It sure does mean unconditional because he reconciled the whole world not counting mens sins against them.

And yet in the very NEXT verse Paul commands us to be reconciled to God. Why would he say that if we already were?

Besides, you just barely said that we have to listen there by adding conditions. Your whole position is full of contradictions.

He didn't just reconcile those who met conditions. The verse clearly says he reconciled the whole world to himself.

Yet the very next verse show that your understanding of this verse is in error. Reconciling "the whole world" apparently is not the same as reconciling an individual. Repentance brings forgiveness.

The sinful man in all of us would like nothing better than to think there must be conditions we must meet or can meet.

Actually it is the sinful man in all of us would like nothing better than to think there must NOT be conditions we must meet.

JESUS SAID, (Matt. 5:19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Are you teaching obedience?

[thesometimesaint]

Echo:

Luke 6:46

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

[Echo]

Wrong once again. Mormons beleive in Paul's complete formula for salvation.

Eph 2

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Salvation = grace THROUGH faith FOR works (not by them)

Christians formula for salvation cuts the formula short.

Salvation = grace

Salvation = Grace through faith

And once saved, that salvation is the cause of being created in Christ Jesus unto good works that we should walk in them.

Do you really "believe in the one he has sent" if you do not keep his commandments?

do you listen? repeatedly I have stated where works fit in. It is clear to me that you don't listen.

The answer is NO, and once again you plug your ears and tell Jesus to shut up.

It's your ears that are all plugged up because you don't hear or listen to what I say and that is what led to your persecuting words of "you...tell Jesus to shut up. Pharisees didn't listen either.

John 14: 12

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Christians like yourself don't beleive Jesus when he says that we will do greater works than even he did. Mormons on the other hand do.

Once again your deaf ears don't hear anything I say. I see no point in responding to your posts any longer since your ears are deaf. But I will say this one last thing....We do believe Jesus when he say that we will do greater works than even he did and IF YOU WERE LISTENING, you might hear about it.

Of course, I have yet to see a Mormon here perform any good works let alone greater works than even he did because all your sins. The hypocrisy of a faith in obedience to God's commandments that is not being carried out is very obvious to me.

[volgadon]

"Of course, I have yet to see a Mormon here perform any good works"

Naturally. This is a message board.

[Echo]

Edited to add one Echo of respect.

Very obviously you cannot keep the commandments.