Gene Cook-Mick Jagger airplaine conversation

[ToGo]

No and maybe. I simply thought "man of wealth and taste" was a perfect counterpoint to what DCP said. Nothing more.

Perhaps. Are you familiar with "Brown Sugar"?

Thanks for the explanation. I am familiar with Brown Sugar.

Curious if you find Double Lovin's lyrics to be suggestive?

[BCSpace]

Curious if you find Double Lovin's lyrics are suggestive?

I do.

[Stargazer]

This account told by Elder Cook has been questioned from the time of its first telling.

So? The accounts of a lot of things that people generally accept as true or likely have been questioned. What of it? It doesn't mean that the reported events didn't happen. In fact, as one of us here has stated, this story, or a story very much like it, was current well before Elder Cook's reported conversation with Mick Jagger. This does not mean that Elder Cook's conversation did not happen; it is certain as the sun's rising that some things happen over and over, with different (or even the same) players. For all we know, Mick Jagger may attempt to determine where clergymen and -women are sitting in the planes he flies in, and arrange to sit next to them for the particular purpose of amusing himself by scandalizing them. Those flights can be long, after all.

Whether it happened can be easily verified. Jagger was either on the flight with Elder Cook or he wasn't.

So, what you are trying to do in coming here is to see if there are any MADB members who might have gotten bit by the obscure-story verification bug and have already done your research for you. And if nobody here has been bitten by said bug as of yet, you may be trying to enlist somebody nearer the source to do your research for you. Fair enough. But you will only succeed if someone either has cared, or can be made to care about this issue. So far you seem to drilling a dry well.

In fact, it probably cannot be "easily" verified that Jagger was on the same flight with Elder Cook. Back in the 70's which is when this conversation was alleged to have taken place, were the airlines being so diligent as to make sure who was flying on their planes? D. B. Cooper being a good example in the negative -- they didn't have the faintest idea who he was when he boarded the plane that he ended up hijacking. Nobody knows who he was. Jagger was slightly more famous when he flew back in the 70's, but how long do you think the airlines retain passenger records? Would the airline (which one was it, anyway?) have retained a record? I think you're going to find this particularly hard to track down. I know when I flew home from my mission in the 70's, my ticket read "M. Clark". Jagger may very well have flown under an alias so as to avoid excess attention from fans, and do we know if he ever did this, or did it at that time? Have fun tracking this down.

In trying to find out, I have simply asked whether anyone on this board has ever check Elder Cook's journals.

The answer to your simple question appears to be "NO". Thanks for playing, please come again!

Seeking to find out the truth seems to have offended a handful of readers/posters on this board.

I read the responses; it didn't seem anyone was offended by your attempt to find out the truth of Elder Cook's story. It seemed that they were wondering why you cared so much about this; because they clearly didn't. And you effectively ignored the question as to why it is such a big deal that the event happened as described, other than a vague concern for the truth.

What are your motivations, anyway? If you are simply concerned to know the truth, then you can communicate with some ex-Mo organization with members in Salt Lake City, and request that they make the search. They would presumably care about it as much as you do, and would perhaps do the research you're asking for. In fact, I am sure that if this is such a big deal that you could contact Utah Lighthouse Ministries, whose full-time occupation is attempting to impugn the LDS church in any way they can, and if they haven't already done the research I'd be surprised. Unless not even they care about this. And if they don't care, why on earth do you? On the other hand, it is possible that ULM has done the research and has discovered that Elder Cook's story cannot be gainsaid.

Have a nice day!

[Daniel Peterson]

LOL. Over at my Malevolent Stalker's board, Paul "I love everybody!" Osborne, who began the evening by denouncing Hugh Nibley as (among other things) a liar, is now denouncing Elder Cook as a liar in very crude language while exhorting the youth of the Church to commit certain specific sexual acts in defiance of Church teachings.

"I love everyone!" Mr. Osborne revealed on this board just a few days ago. "I love all of God's children, those whom I have met and those who I have not met, and those whom I hardly know."

He is, he says, being subjected to a lynch-mob mentality here, virtual crucifixion, and is almost being burned at the stake.

I'm not making this up.

[ToGo]

Thank you, stargazer, you gave a direct answer to my question: "The answer to your simple question appears to be 'No'." Perhaps someone else here will be able to answer yes--it's why I asked.

Also, thanks for suggesting Utah Lighthouse Ministries. I've not heard of that organization before, nor do I know of any "ex-Mo organization with members in Salt Lake City". I appreciate the suggestions. Perhaps Utah Lighthouse Ministries has check Elder Cook's journals.

[ToGo]

LOL. Over at my Malevolent Stalker's board, Paul "I love everybody!" Osborne, who began the evening by denouncing Hugh Nibley as (among other things) a liar, is now denouncing Elder Cook as a liar in very crude language while exhorting the youth of the Church to commit certain specific sexual acts in defiance of Church teachings.

"I love everyone!" Mr. Osborne revealed on this board just a few days ago. "I love all of God's children, those whom I have met and those who I have not met, and those whom I hardly know."

He is, he says, being subjected to a lynch-mob mentality here, virtual crucifixion, and is almost being burned at the stake.

I'm not making this up.

Mr. Osborne certainly spews a lot of venom. His post was completely useless to my inquiries.

[Calm]

Thank you, stargazer, you gave a direct answer to my question: "The answer to your simple question appears to be 'No'." Perhaps someone else here will be able to answer yes--it's why I asked.

Also, thanks for suggesting Utah Lighthouse Ministries. I've not heard of that organization before, nor do I know of any "ex-Mo organization with members in Salt Lake City". I appreciate the suggestions. Perhaps Utah Lighthouse Ministries has check Elder Cook's journals.

If you do ask UTLM for help, make sure you get a photocopy of the pages. They on occasion edit the quoted material to make it appear more sensational.

[Anijen]

Mr. Osborne certainly spews a lot of venom. His post was completely useless to my inquiries.

All his post are completely useless, just my opinion after reading his comments.. My post are completely useless also my opinion.

[Calm]

All his post are completely useless, just my opinion after reading his comments.. My post are completely useless also my opinion.

But your avatar is fun to look at.

[ToGo]

If you do ask UTLM for help, make sure you get a photocopy of the pages. They on occasion edit the quoted material to make it appear more sensational.

Do you have a suggestion for a possible research source in Salt Lake City that would be more reliable than Utah Lighthouse Ministries?

[ToGo]

I do.

Does anyone else find the Double Lovin' lyrics to be sexually suggestive?

[Anijen]

But your avatar is fun to look at.

My wife said its perfect for me since I type one finger at a time or lesser chance I used to be a super hero, nah....

[Calm]

BCSpace,

Were these the lyrics designed to drive the kids to sex?

DOUBLE LOVIN'

Are you seriously comparing the Osmonds to the Stones?

[AKS]

Please allow me to introduce myself

I'm a man of wealth and taste

I've been around for a long, long year

Stole many a man's soul and faith

I was 'round when Jesus Christ

Had his moment of doubt and pain

Made damn sure that Pilate

Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you

Hope you guess my name

But what's puzzling you

Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St. Petersburg

When I saw it was a time for a change

Killed the tsar and his ministers

Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank

Held a general's rank

When the blitzkrieg raged

And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you

Hope you guess my name, oh yeah

Ah, what's puzzling you

Is the nature of my game, oh yeah

I watched with glee

While your kings and queens

Fought for ten decades

For the gods they made

I shouted out,

"Who killed the Kennedys?"

When after all

It was you and me

Let me please introduce myself

I'm a man of wealth and taste

And I laid traps for troubadours

Who get killed before they reach Bombay

Pleased to meet you

Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah

But what's puzzling you

Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby

Pleased to meet you

Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah

But what's confusing you

Is just the nature of my game

Just as every cop is a criminal

And all the sinners saints

As heads is tails

Just call me Lucifer

'Cause I'm in need of some restraint

So if you meet me

Have some courtesy

Have some sympathy, and some taste

Use all your well-learned politesse

Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah

Pleased to meet you

Hope you guessed my name, um yeah

But what's puzzling you

Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down

Woo, who

Oh yeah, get on down

Oh yeah

Oh yeah!

Tell me baby, what's my name

Tell me honey, can ya guess my name

Tell me baby, what's my name

I tell you one time, you're to blame

Oh, who

woo, woo

Woo, who

Woo, woo

Woo, who, who

Woo, who, who

Oh, yeah

What's my name

Tell me, baby, what's my name

Tell me, sweetie, what's my name

Sympathy for the devil

Of all the Stones' songs you could have picked, this is actually one of their more cerebral songs. It certainly doesn't make the point you think it does.

[AKS]

It shouldn't come as any surprise that the rolling stones, a rather mediocre rock band, would use sex to sell some records. The same technique has been used to push everything from soda pop to cigarettes.

[Maya]

I'm absolutely shocked -- shocked, I tell you -- that anybody could have ever publicly suggested that Sir Michael Philip "Mick" Jagger is less than completely virtuous and devoted to principles of chastity and monogamy.

I don't believe I've ever heard anybody impugn his character on this subject before, and, surely, such allegations cannot possibly be true.

For a profile of Sir Michael that vividly illustrates his fidelity to old-fashioned family values, see the subsection entitled "Personal Life" at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Jagger

This cries out for a full investigation! A man's public reputation for morality and virtue is at stake!

[Honorentheos]

There was a thread on this a year or two back. In it, someone actually DID do a bit of research. As I recall, the facts that could be confirmed were that the Stones had released an album in the time period that subsequently had a music video or two that were filmed in a location where it could conceivably place Mick Jagger on a plane coming from Mexico to the US with Elder Cook and would have been in a rock magazine.

Also, I understand that Mick Jagger's representatives have a form letter that they provide on this topic since it seems they get asked it enough to warrant that type of response. As I recall, it neither confirms nor denies the account but simply states Mr. Jagger has met a lot of people and no specific record of this incident is known to exist by Mick's own account. There is a snoops on the topic as well (with a few great jokes, btw.)

Anyway, the real points to take out of this are these facts:

Mick Jagger, at the age of 66, can do a backflip and is known for ending his shows with one.

Gene Cook, at the age of 68, has not been seen to do a backflip in public.

Mick Jagger is rumored to have been saved from a plot by the Hell's Angel's wanting to kill him by a storm sinking their boat.

Gene Cook is rumored to have never sang along to "Sympathy for the Devil". (Not even the back-up "whoo-hoo!")

Don't know what any of that means.

Which is kind of the point, actually.

I, for one, like to sing along with Sympathy for the Devil and am doing so now.

Let's test the point of this silly story (even if it's true) by performing an experient and checking the effect on the libedo of listening to the song above...

Results = "whoo hoo!"...but not a change in sexual desire. Maybe I'm not young enough? Actually, it makes me want to play some music, hit a show somewhere and get into the music, - probably the bass line. I forgot how rockin this song is.

[Honorentheos]

Are you seriously comparing the Osmonds to the Stones?

No kidding, that's wrong at so many levels. Well, pre-80's Stones, anyway. Soldier of Love and the Steel Wheels Stones may have something in common, unfortunately.

[Garden Girl]

Wow, ToGo... you really are fixated on this...

As far as the lyrics. Real intelligent

GG

[Honorentheos]

Wow, ToGo... you really are fixated on this...

As far as the lyrics. Real intelligent

GG

Hi, GG.

For some reason your post reminded me of Sinatra. "It was a very good year" - I don't know, I think popular music is popular because it appeals so quickly, almost primally, to what makes us human. Which is likely the point of Elder Cook's story. The bigger question of if this defiles us or defines us is another. And context, can't forget context - a person listens to Wagner for Wagner, and Bach for Bach, and never should the two mix.

[BCSpace]

Of all the Stones' songs you could have picked, this is actually one of their more cerebral songs. It certainly doesn't make the point you think it does.

And what point do you think I was thinking of?

[BCSpace]

Thank you, stargazer, you gave a direct answer to my question: "The answer to your simple question appears to be 'No'." Perhaps someone else here will be able to answer yes--it's why I asked.

In the same vein, perhaps we ought to open the journals of everyone who gives anecdotal exit stories....

[volgadon]

The Rolling Stone's first big hit was Let's Spend the Night Together, does that tell you anything?

[Garden Girl]

Hi, GG.

For some reason your post reminded me of Sinatra. "It was a very good year" - I don't know, I think popular music is popular because it appeals so quickly, almost primally, to what makes us human. Which is likely the point of Elder Cook's story. The bigger question of if this defiles us or defines us is another. And context, can't forget context - a person listens to Wagner for Wagner, and Bach for Bach, and never should the two mix.

Hi Honorentheos...

Sorry... this old woman grew up in the era when songs, including love songs, had real lyrics and you could actually dance to them...looking into the eyes of your sweetheart. I also grew up with the beginnings of rock n' roll, when the lyrics were fun, the dances energetic not grinding suggestive movements... somehow, we've come a long way baby doesn't appeal to me and never has.

As for the OP, I just don't get why ToGo has such a burr under his... his... seat about this.

Hope this finds you well...

From the beach on a cold, dark night...GG

[Honorentheos]

Hi Honorentheos...

Sorry... this old woman grew up in the era when songs, including love songs, had real lyrics and you could actually dance to them...looking into the eyes of your sweetheart. I also grew up with the beginnings of rock n' roll, when the lyrics were fun, the dances energetic not grinding suggestive movements... somehow, we've come a long way baby doesn't appeal to me and never has.

As for the OP, I just don't get why ToGo has such a burr under his... his... seat about this.

Hope this finds you well...

From the beach on a cold, dark night...GG

You know, it's an interesting thought about how things (like music) have changed over the years. I'm not old by any stretch of the term, other than to my 8 year old daughter, so I am thinking figuratively about this rather than from first-hand experience.

I don't think one has to look too hard at old songs and see that there is just as much appeal to man's nature, and not the "higher" nature, in music of any age.

But I wonder if things haven't been more "refined" today in the sense that we have modern sweeteners that are so refined that when the same amount of our artificial sweeteners hit the senses it does so with much more impact. With foods this means we use just use less (or should). We seem to see this in many things, from the effectiveness of modern advertising at getting "under our skins" and hitting at a primal instinct, to our foods as I point out above. I'm sure our modern forms of music are more potent in how quickly they bring about a very human, basic response to the stimuli they are designed to trigger.

Is that wrong, though? That gets to a bigger question of what defined morality. And that is a question outside of the scope of this thread and too obviously biased for my willingness to waste time on debating on this board since I am not sure one could have that discussion here without it turning simply to "morality=what God says". I think there is plenty to discuss, don't get me wrong on that. Just that I see it being too...I don't know. I just see it as being resolved in most believing LDS minds that it can't be rationally questioned and debated. The entire debate would be about the Church, God, and all the other things we debate here. Ugh.