Capital Punishment

[Zakuska]

Retribution or permanent removal from society? Isn't that what happened to one third the host of heaven, a judgement made by a celestial being?

Nor do I see the fulfillment of mosaic law as the negation of the ten commandments or all punishments presented.

But there inlies the question. Were the 1/3 removed from society because Anialation of the soul is truely an imposibility?

Second, since death is just chaff in the wind. It really doesn't matter one way or the other. It sure is a lot less expensive for us on this side of the veil if we just dispense with the rif-raff, and let the celestial being deal with them a little earlier.

[krose]

Second, since death is just chaff in the wind. It really doesn't matter one way or the other.

This is the attitude that is one of the most disturbing to me, that death is just a simple passage to more life.

If you are wrong and this is the only shot at life we have, how terrible is it that you treat ending it so cavalierly?

[mercyngrace]

CFR

I hope you're being as sarcastic as I was....

I read Vindicator's post as condemning those of us who with hesitations about capital punishment as "bleeding hearts" who have no appreciation for the sacrifices of our servicemen and women (see his "out of sight, out of mind" comment). I was sarcastically pointing out others, greater than I, have also struggled with taking a life - even when it was for the good of society (the Nephites). Frankly, his post was insulting. And dead wrong.

[mercyngrace]

This is the attitude that is one of the most disturbing to me, that death is just a simple passage to more life.

If you are wrong and this is the only shot at life we have, how terrible is it that you treat ending it so cavalierly?

I wonder, is he as cavalier about abortion?

[Jeff K.]

In an abortion a child not yet born, has no opportunity to make choices that may lead it down a dangerous path. It is innocent and the pawn of another person, regardless of that person's maturity or immaturity in viewing life as sacred.

Someone who has had a life though, competent to know to a certain level that the death of another is forbidden by our society. That person has made choices that put them in the path that may lead to their execution from society.

I see that as a very clear distinction between abortion and the death penalty.

[Jeff K.]

This is the attitude that is one of the most disturbing to me, that death is just a simple passage to more life.

If you are wrong and this is the only shot at life we have, how terrible is it that you treat ending it so cavalierly?

He has his faith, you have yours, or lack thereof. It is a passage in view of most of the people of faith around the world. I would not call it cavalier so much as an acknowledgement of what they think it is.

[ERayR]

But there inlies the question. Were the 1/3 removed from society because Anialation of the soul is truely an imposibility?

Second, since death is just chaff in the wind. It really doesn't matter one way or the other. It sure is a lot less expensive for us on this side of the veil if we just dispense with the rif-raff, and let the celestial being deal with them a little earlier.

Capital punishment does not anialate the soul. It just removes it to a place better prepared to deal with that kind of a soul.

The 1/3 of the hosts of heaven sufferred a spiritual death(banishment from the presence of God). That is the ultimate capital punishment.

[USU78]

What is more cruel than to hold a convicted murderer (who couldn't come up with enough mitigating evidence to trip over the very low hurdle established by the Warren Court) for 20 years before pulling the plug on him?

What is more unusual than letting 50 murderers go in order to avoid the fundamental tragic nature of earth life: that sometimes innocent people are killed by governments?

[blueadept]

I'm personally not a huge fan of capital punishment but the poll is too black and white to be useful for me.

I agree the poll is way too black and white. As a non-LDS, I tend to not defend capital punishment. With the recent execution of the Washington DC sniper though, you will not see me trying to put an end to capital punishment with someone who honestly terrorized the DC area and took lives in such a random but calculated matter.

[O-Brother]

I fully support capital punishment in cases where innocent blood was shed. The types of wicked people whom I think deserve the death penalty swiftly and quickly instead of 10 years in the system:

1. People who deliberately kill children. Example, the guy who lured and strangled a 5-year-old Destiny Norton. Utah, 2006.

2. The guy who killed BYU co-ed, Brooke Wilberger

3. The guy who killed Trisha Ann Autry, 15, Logan.

4. Rosie Tapia, 6, Glendale -- Kidnapped from her home while sleeping Aug. 13, 1995. Her body was found the next morning in the Jordan River bearing evidence of sexual abuse; - Killer never found?

5. The guy who shot and killed his wife in a Church parking lot.

6. Mark Hacking who killed his wife and dumped her body in a landfill

7. Andrea Yates who methodically drowned her 5 children in the bathtub - yeah, claimed mental insanity. Blamed the Devil.

8. Susan Smith who methodically drowned her own 2 little boys by dumping her car in a lake and blaming a black man.

9. John Allen Muhammed - Good riddance. This guy killed (10) innocent people who were just going about their daily lives.

10. Nidal Malik Hasan who killed 13 innocent people - worse than the other lunatic above - should be executed for being wicked.

And hundreds of wicked people like unto them. They should all be executed without delay and not be an expense to tax payers. I'd rather save the kitties and puppies

at the Humane Society who die daily without having done anything wrong.

[ERayR]

I agree the poll is way too black and white. As a non-LDS, I tend to not defend capital punishment. With the recent execution of the Washington DC sniper though, you will not see me trying to put an end to capital punishment with someone who honestly terrorized the DC area and took lives in such a random but calculated matter.

As a practising LDS I support capital punishment on a very limited basis. There are, however, some crimes that are so heinous that there can be no other solution. The DC sniper type incidents, serial killers, and those who hurt and kill little children.

[mercyngrace]

In an abortion a child not yet born, has no opportunity to make choices that may lead it down a dangerous path. It is innocent and the pawn of another person, regardless of that person's maturity or immaturity in viewing life as sacred.

Someone who has had a life though, competent to know to a certain level that the death of another is forbidden by our society. That person has made choices that put them in the path that may lead to their execution from society.

I see that as a very clear distinction between abortion and the death penalty.

Jeff -

I agree with you about the distinction between abortion and the death penalty. But I think Krose has a point about treating the power to take a life nonchalantly, which is why I made the comparison. Is life sacred? Or only the lives we value?

[Jeff K.]

I don't know if the power of life is treated as nonchalantly as all that. Krose is simply looking for something to attack, and ones attitude does not speak to the action itself, so Krose has chosen to conflate an individual attitude into a general regard for the death penalty.

[mercyngrace]

For all those think the poll is not nuanced enough - I did consider an option for "I am LDS and support capital punishment in only the most egregious cases." but I felt sure that's where nearly all of the votes would go and I wanted to read discussion and justification for and against.

[BCSpace]

For all those think the poll is not nuanced enough - I did consider an option for "I am LDS and support capital punishment in only the most egregious cases." but I felt sure that's where nearly all of the votes would go and I wanted to read discussion and justification for and against.

I still would've gone for the more general option. I believe the death penalty should be a spectre in all murder cases and I have no problem applying it to egregious cases of crime that don't involve killing at all.

[Zakuska]

Maybe if we started chopping hands off for shop lifting some of the crime would go down.

[thesometimesaint]

BCSpace:

Like being a pickpocket at a public execution.

[BCSpace]

Like being a pickpocket at a public execution.

I was thinking more along the lines of multiple parking violations.

[thesometimesaint]

BCSpace:

Wuss. You gotta make an example of those hardened criminals the first time.

[blueadept]

Maybe if we started chopping hands off for shop lifting some of the crime would go down.

This particular approach works real well in Saudi Arabia. It's also a factor of why I'm not in a hurry to live in a place where this is practiced but I have a tendency of treating people with authority from the viewpoint that the glass is half empty and that's just my nature.

[Glenn101]

I'm jumping in here without having read but a couple of posts. The Lord explicitly required capital punshment for some crimes under the Mosaic law. The reasons for such severity were not articulated or debated. It is my guess that this was intended to serve as a warning to others not to engage in the prohibited actions and to remove the offenders from among the company, thus removing the seditious effects that just staying alive could have had and the possibility of seditious actions and speech by the offenders.

Jesus himself is silent on that subject. Howevr consider the case of Ananias and Sapphira.......

The main problem I have with capital punishment as meted out by man is embodied by the caption od a tombstone of a man hung for some crime in the Old West:

He wuz right

We wuz wrong

But now he's gone

All too often men who were proven guilty "beyond a reasonabe doubt" have been later exonerated when it was found that key evidence was witheld or by dna evidence that was not available when the original case was brought to trial.

I would hold with capital punishment only when the evidence leaves no doubt at all and the crime(s) warrant the punishment. John Wayne Gacy.

Glenn

[mercyngrace]

The main problem I have with capital punishment as meted out by man is embodied by the caption od a tombstone of a man hung for some crime in the Old West:

He wuz right

We wuz wrong

But now he's gone

All too often men who were proven guilty "beyond a reasonabe doubt" have been later exonerated when it was found that key evidence was witheld or by dna evidence that was not available when the original case was brought to trial.

I would hold with capital punishment only when the evidence leaves no doubt at all and the crime(s) warrant the punishment. John Wayne Gacy.

Glenn

That's about where I stand as well, Glenn.

[Jeff K.]

While the sentiment of cautious is appropriate. I cannot find one real example of error being made in regard to the death penalty being carried out. If such an example were possible, it would be trotted out. Roger Kieth Coleman was such a person, it was his contention all the way to his death that he was innocent. The anti death penalty groups, used him as an example. Later more sophisticated DNA testing showed otherwise.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

BCSpace:

Wuss. You gotta make an example of those hardened criminals the first time.

Maybe we could through people in jail that don't have health insurance. That is what I want for Christmas.

[Glenn101]

While the sentiment of cautious is appropriate. I cannot find one real example of error being made in regard to the death penalty being carried out. If such an example were possible, it would be trotted out. Roger Kieth Coleman was such a person, it was his contention all the way to his death that he was innocent. The anti death penalty groups, used him as an example. Later more sophisticated DNA testing showed otherwise.

I can point you to one recent case where a man was placed on death row due to prosecutorial misconduct among other things. Fortunately for the man in question, the details came to light and he was finally acquitted. Caution needs to be exercised all along the way.

Glenn