Women, Relief Society and being LDS

[mfbukowski]

I totally agree that couples should be in agreement. Hence my opinion that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If women need written permission, then so should men. It only seems logical (to my finite mind, anyway...)

I will not quote the handbook, but I will be glad to tell you what it says. If you want the exact wording ask your bishop to read you the relevant section on page 77

First, it only uses the word "spouse" and it applies to ANY spouse who seeks to be endowed to any "unendowed" spouse, whether a member or not. Before the recommend is issued, the bishop is to receive written consent from the unendowed spouse, and the bishop and stake president must be convinced that the endowment will not cause any problems in the marriage. Short and sweet, that's pretty much it. No sexism at all, the concern is that there will be no problems caused in the marriage. So let's get off the rumors of what the policy is or might be, and if it would be sexist if it was whatever, because that's it!

[katherine the great]

I will not quote the handbook, but I will be glad to tell you what it says. If you want the exact wording ask your bishop to read you the relevant section on page 77

First, it only uses the word "spouse" and it applies to ANY spouse who seeks to be endowed to any "unendowed" spouse, whether a member or not. Before the recommend is issued, the bishop is to receive written consent from the unendowed spouse, and the bishop and stake president must be convinced that the endowment will not cause any problems in the marriage. Short and sweet, that's pretty much it. No sexism at all, the concern is that there will be no problems caused in the marriage. So let's get off the rumors of what the policy is or might be, and if it would be sexist if it was whatever, because that's it!

Not having ready access to the handbook, it is easy for those "rumors" to fly. I am glad to hear that it was, indeed, a rumor.

[blueadept]

I will not quote the handbook, but I will be glad to tell you what it says. If you want the exact wording ask your bishop to read you the relevant section on page 77

First, it only uses the word "spouse" and it applies to ANY spouse who seeks to be endowed to any "unendowed" spouse, whether a member or not. Before the recommend is issued, the bishop is to receive written consent from the unendowed spouse, and the bishop and stake president must be convinced that the endowment will not cause any problems in the marriage. Short and sweet, that's pretty much it. No sexism at all, the concern is that there will be no problems caused in the marriage. So let's get off the rumors of what the policy is or might be, and if it would be sexist if it was whatever, because that's it!

Thanks MFB,

I looked it up in an older reference of the CHI and confirmed this.

[rayhale]

Hello W2K...

Bluebell and KtG, and others, have given good overviews of Relief Society... so, I thought you'd like to see our "statement" as women of RS...

The Relief Society of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints:

WE are beloved spirit daughters of God, and our lives have meaning, purpose, and direction. As a worldwide sisterhood, we are united in our devotion to Jesus Christ, our Savior and Exemplar. We are women of faith, virtue, vision and charity, who:

Increase our testimonies of Jesus Christ through prayer and scripture study.

Seek spiritual strength by following the promptings of the Holy Ghost.

Dedicate ourselves to strengthening marriages, families, and homes.

Find nobility in motherhood and joy in womanhood.

Delight in service and good works.

Love life and learning.

Stand for truth and righteousness.

Sustain the priesthood as the authority of God on earth.

Rejoice in the blessings of the temple, understand our divine destiny, and strive for exaltation.

I love Relief Society, and being a strong, Latter-Day Saint woman...

from the beach... Garden Girl

As a man, I have great respect for Relief Society, as a Church organization, but I keep hearing some of the General Relief Society Presidency say that, Relief Society is the largest woman?s organization in the world. This is the tricky part. As a woman's organization, Relief Society is not a very good organization. Where is the 'relief' in the Relief Society? I know that in the beginning, it was created to help build, 'prettify', and to make the final touches on the Kirtland temple and to 'relieve' the men, with lemonade, and lunches. Can't the Relief Society do more? Why isn?t there Relief Society sponsored homeless shelters, soup kitchens, or any other 'relief' types of buildings or services, like free breasts exams, rape counseling, job skills building . . . Etc? Why aren't there world wide, not just local projects, like teaching people to read? I realize that with a group of untrained people, all with different levels of skill, that doing 'feel good' humanitarian projects, like making 48 hour kits, hygiene kits, or other easy projects, makes sense, since doin' these simple tasks doesn't take any skill to do, and they make you 'feel good' after you are done.

Why does the Relief Society hardly ever talk about, or even just mention, their views on subjects like, abortion, women's rights, domestic abuse, or anything else? As the largest woman's organization, why doesn't the General Relief Society President appear on any major talk show, like Larry King, and make their views known to people outside the Church?

Don't get me wrong, Relief Society, as a Church organization, is great, but as a woman's organization that discusses women?s issues, it is poor.

[Somebodyz]

As a man, I have great respect for Relief Society, as a Church organization, but I keep hearing some of the General Relief Society Presidency say that, Relief Society is the largest woman?s organization in the world. This is the tricky part. As a woman's organization, Relief Society is not a very good organization. Where is the 'relief' in the Relief Society? I know that in the beginning, it was created to help build, 'prettify', and to make the final touches on the Kirtland temple and to 'relieve' the men, with lemonade, and lunches. Can't the Relief Society do more? Why isn?t there Relief Society sponsored homeless shelters, soup kitchens, or any other 'relief' types of buildings or services, like free breasts exams, rape counseling, job skills building . . . Etc? Why aren't there world wide, not just local projects, like teaching people to read? I realize that with a group of untrained people, all with different levels of skill, that doing 'feel good' humanitarian projects, like making 48 hour kits, hygiene kits, or other easy projects, makes sense, since doin' these simple tasks doesn't take any skill to do, and they make you 'feel good' after you are done.

Why does the Relief Society hardly ever talk about, or even just mention, their views on subjects like, abortion, women's rights, domestic abuse, or anything else? As the largest woman's organization, why doesn't the General Relief Society President appear on any major talk show, like Larry King, and make their views known to people outside the Church?

Don't get me wrong, Relief Society, as a Church organization, is great, but as a woman's organization that discusses women?s issues, it is poor.

Relief Society is for the community. Making a public, stance on abortions and other issues, makes it too political, I'd suspect. I've know RS to work in mental hospitals, soup kitchens and the like, just because the don't post about it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. They also help those in need of care in their homes, trips to the hospital etc.

I know of those who do counselling work also.

[Deborah]

Why does the Relief Society hardly ever talk about, or even just mention, their views on subjects like, abortion, women's rights, domestic abuse, or anything else? As the largest woman's organization, why doesn't the General Relief Society President appear on any major talk show, like Larry King, and make their views known to people outside the Church?

You can't be serious? Relief Society presidencies have met with world leaders and worked with other women's groups that support these values. Why on earth would they go on Larry King and brag about all they do. Most of the work is done quietly behind the scenes and is often done by the local Relief Societies.

Matthew 6:

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

[Wants2know]

"The Relief Society (RS) is a philanthropic and educational women's organization and an official auxiliary organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Founded in 1842 in Nauvoo, Illinois, USA, the Relief Society is the oldest women's organization in the world.[2][3] Claiming more than 6 million members in over 170 countries and territories, it is also the second largest women's organizations in the world, second only to the YWCA". - from wikipedia.

I don't recall ever seeing YWCA leadership on Larry King or Oprah. Nor do I recall them having "national" programs involved in women's issues (perhaps 4H types of things?), but I could very well be wrong about that. However, I would not negate the work of the YWCA, just because it doesn't have a national PR platform or because they aren't involved in crisis response. That being said, I wasn't able to find information/reports on the net regarding the relief society being involved in things like rape crisis hotlines, domestic violence or abuse issue (I don't believe anyone here has mentioned involvement through RS in those issues either). Then again, I'm not convinced that the "mission" of the relief society, as it's been organized by the church, is to provide a wide band of ongoing support and INTERVENTION, in those areas of social concern. Rather, it seems that it the focus is on developing personal relationships with and between LDS women, primarily through home visits. Personally, I'm a huge believer in the nature of "relationship", being of the most importance when a woman is faced with a serious issue, such as rape, unexpected pregnancy, abuse, family crisis, etc. Without "relationship", women are quite unlikely to come forward, or discuss/report such issues. Emotional safety is usually the woman's foremost concern. So - in that regard, I would think that RS may very well be quite involved in those aforementioned women's issues, but perhaps at a more intimate level. I am quite able to envision a home visit occurring, and a woman appearing with recent bruises at the door and consequently reporting abuse to the home visitors. I wonder, if the church provides guidance for it's Sister's, however, in providing skills to adequately manage such concerns should they arise through home visiting. The "first responder" often sets the tone for recovery and response to such situations. In some cases, there would be state law that would mandate reporting, and I'm also wondering about how the RS instructs Sisters in that regard. Comments?? Experiences??

[Garden Girl]

Hello W2K...

You are quite right... RS sisters are not professionals... we do not counsel on rape, abuse, etc. However, it is through our Visiting Teaching program that we become close to sisters in the ward... we go into their homes on a monthly basis, developing relationships... friendships... and to ascertain their needs, if any, and of what type. If we see abuse, for instance, we would report it to the RS President, who then works closely with the bishop who can meet with the family and refer to LDS Social Services for appropriate professional counseling, etc.

In the meantime, we sisters provide spiritual and emotional support through the "relationships" we build with our sisters. And when there is a need for "service" such as I experienced this past month as I recover from surgery, it is the RS sisters who bring in meals, clean house, babysit, pick up kids from school, give rides to doctors, etc., and who participate in any number of general humanitarian projects. And in spite of rayhale's dismissal of such efforts as packing hygiene kits, etc., it gave me great satisfaction during Katrina to know that perhaps a kit I packed was being used by a mother to clean a child, or herself... happy for the supplies in that kit... or to know that a burn victim was being wrapped in the special bandages crocheted by thousands of sisters during RS Womens' Conference, etc and etc and etc.

I will leave the rape counseling etc to those trained to deal with such things, and just be aware of my sisters' needs as I visit in their homes and address them accordingly by reporting to ward leaders for necessary action.

Garden Girl

[Wants2know]

Thanks GG. As always, I appreciate your thoughts.

[Calm]

delete...it looks like it was already discussed and my memory was wrong anyway, lol

as another note on the topic, many men are endowed when their spouses are not because they were endowed prior to marriage, usually on a mission. These days this could occur with a woman as well. I can't remember at what age they start allowing nonmission endowments to be taken out these days, though.

[katherine the great]

delete...it looks like it was already discussed and my memory was wrong anyway, lol

as another note on the topic, many men are endowed when their spouses are not because they were endowed prior to marriage, usually on a mission. These days this could occur with a woman as well. I can't remember at what age they start allowing nonmission endowments to be taken out these days, though.

I had a 21 year old roommate who was allowed to have her endowments even though she had no intention of serving a mission. Her parents were going through a messy divorce and her father had done some really stupid things. I think she and the Bishop decided together that she could really use the strength attending temple could provide her. I think it really got her through a hard time. That was in the mid to late 80's. Up to that point, I hadn't heard of it happening.

[Calm]

I had a 21 year old roommate who was allowed to have her endowments even though she had no intention of serving a mission. Her parents were going through a messy divorce and her father had done some really stupid things. I think she and the Bishop decided together that she could really use the strength attending temple could provide her. I think it really got her through a hard time. That was in the mid to late 80's. Up to that point, I hadn't heard of it happening.

The eighties was when a married to a nonmember friend took out her endowments as well. Previously, single and 'mixed' married females couldn't.

[Wants2know]

Am I to understand that a woman can not receive endowments unless they are married to a member or intending to serve a mission, in most cases?

[Calm]

Am I to understand that a woman can not receive endowments unless they are married to a member or intending to serve a mission, in most cases?

Once upon a time, not so now. They are encouraged to wait until they get married so that their husband can participate in the endowment in a part of the ceremony (which is beautifully enhanced imo by having the husband do it rather than a total stranger).

[ttribe]

Am I to understand that a woman can not receive endowments unless they are married to a member or intending to serve a mission, in most cases?

FYI - my mother was never married in the Temple and never served a mission. However, she was received her endowment and is currently serving as a worker in the Mesa, AZ temple.

[katherine the great]

Am I to understand that a woman can not receive endowments unless they are married to a member or intending to serve a mission, in most cases?

I think there have been periodic policy changes. The current policy seems to be that a woman can receive her endowments when she and her Bishop decide she is ready or when she serves a full time mission or gets married. I imagine the policy is the same for the men.

[mfbukowski]

I think there have been periodic policy changes. The current policy seems to be that a woman can receive her endowments when she and her Bishop decide she is ready or when she serves a full time mission or gets married. I imagine the policy is the same for the men.

Yep. The only reason there is a perceived difference (as opposed to a real difference) is that it is more common for men to go on missions. If more men did NOT go on missions, they would also not get endowed until marriage either. (or as decided by the person and their bishop)

In other words, the default would be NOT becoming endowed until there was a good reason spiritually to do so.

[Garden Girl]

I know several single sisters in their mid-twenties on up who have received their endowment... I think the key is their meeting with their bishops and determining they are spiritually ready. I received my endowment a year after reactivating though married to a non-member.

GG