The weight of the golden plates

[Jaybear]

While your question is beside the point, let me ask you back: why would they need to see that which they had been told about for years, but had been obviously excluded by God from seeing throughout that time?

Clearly, they already knew what the fuss was about, as did also those making the fuss.

Thanks, -Wade Englund

Why? Natural curiosity. It strikes me as odd, that none in his family, or Emma would look under the frock.

What had JS done at that point in his life, to convince his family that he was a prophet of God?

I suppose if they believe that (1)he had been visited by God and Jesus, (2)had been led to golden plates by an angel, and (3)that God told him that he could not show the plates to his family, then (4) they would also believe his tale about being chased by a gang of ruffians.

On a credibility scale, the tale of the ruffians is most plausible of these other three Smith story.

[MAsh]

I believe I have addressed it. It is possible that the story was misremembered, embellished or important details forgotten and omitted in the telling of the story by Lucy Mack Smith either by her or by J.S. It is also possible that Joseph Smith didn't offer every detail of his alleged event, and didn't explain the day in a play by play factual way. It is possible that the retelling by Lucy Mack Smith is missing many or most of the crucial details that would make the story seem more plausible.

Ok, I accept most of what you say above, with a caveat on the "crucial details" which is a substitutionary weasel-word for "fundamentals."

Sure, but how else can we read the story without undue speculation that renders any understanding impossible because any speculative theory could enter into the formula?

It's impossible not to speculate because there really isn't enough info & the source is 2nd hand. Sure Lucy could have been lying. Sure, J could have been lying. But the only reason to assume they are lying is because it has to do with plates & angels.

What you haven't addressed is if Moroni instructed Joseph Smith to keep quiet about the plates, how did three "assailants" just happen to pick the right day Joseph Smith was retrieving the plates? Did J.S. ever report being assailed before the day he actually had the plates on mere rumor that he had them? Surely, if people knew of the plates before he had possession of them, they would have been trying to get them from day 1. Well?

This is another Red Herring & has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But I'll throw you a bone... do some research on Willard Chase.

[MAsh]

So each side of an argument calls the other's claims so ridiculous as to be embarrassing. It seems the only way to solve it would be to get the opinion of a selection of people with no interest in either side of the debate, and no prior knowledge of who supposedly did it.

Here's the question I would suggest putting to a few outsiders (make them military training experts, even), without revealing the name of the subject:

On a scale of one to ten, how believable is it to you that a young man of average size, with no special training other than farm work and occasional amateur wrestling, could successfully fight off or outrun several attackers in the woods, while carrying a rectangular stack of metal sheets that are tied together and weigh between 40 and 60 pounds?

You could vary the weight and see how the opinion changes. Then you could add in things like jumping logs and reassess.

How do you think it would turn out (1 = almost no possibility, 10 = it could easily be done)?

You forgot to put a smiley or lol face at the end of this absurd suggestion. I'm hoping for your sake (speaking of embarassment) that this wasn't a serious thought.

[Tchild2]

Here is a little tidbit I found reading up on the early accounts of the plates. Maybe for another thread ultimately, but an interesting piece of information for potential materials to craft a set of plates that could be "hefted" and felt through cloth as was the case for most of the family.

Fearing the chest might still be discovered, Smith hid it under the floor boards of his parents' old log home nearby, then being used as a cooper shop

Receiving the plates

A cooper, was a shop that fashioned wooden staved vessels of a conical form, of greater length than breadth, bound together with hoops and possessing flat ends or heads. Cooper shop

Of course, a cooper used metal to fasten the wooden vessels together. I wonder what form that metal was delivered to the cooper shop to ultimately be cut into strips? Those metal strips look about the same thickness as would a page from fabricated plates. Hmmmm.

[Tchild2]

Ok, I accept most of what you say above, with a caveat on the "crucial details" which is a substitutionary weasel-word for "fundamentals."

It's impossible not to speculate because there really isn't enough info & the source is 2nd hand. Sure Lucy could have been lying. Sure, J could have been lying. But the only reason to assume they are lying is because it has to do with plates & angels.

This is another Red Herring & has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. But I'll throw you a bone... do some research on Willard Chase.

Just did. Thanks for the heads up. Ignore those last questions, answered satisfactorily by historical records.

[wenglund]

Why? Natural curiosity. It strikes me as odd, that none in his family, or Emma would look under the frock.

What had JS done at that point in his life, to convince his family that he was a prophet of God?

I suppose if they believe that (1)he had been visited by God and Jesus, (2)had been led to golden plates by an angel, and (3)that God told him that he could not show the plates to his family, then (4) they would also believe his tale about being chased by a gang of ruffians.

On a credibility scale, the tale of the ruffians is most plausible of these other three Smith story.

Speak for yourself. Credibility is evidently in the eye of the beholder, and in this case it is a function of spiritual faith or the lack thereof. To minds such as yours, that are limited narrowly to faith only in things physical, and are relatively ignorant of things spiritual, will naturally find spiritual things incredible. To each their own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

Here is a little tidbit I found reading up on the early accounts of the plates. Maybe for another thread ultimately, but an interesting piece of information for potential materials to craft a set of plates that could be "hefted" and felt through cloth as was the case for most of the family.

Receiving the plates

A cooper, was a shop that fashioned wooden staved vessels of a conical form, of greater length than breadth, bound together with hoops and possessing flat ends or heads. Cooper shop

Of course, a cooper used metal to fasten the wooden vessels together. I wonder what form that metal was delivered to the cooper shop to ultimately be cut into strips? Those metal strips look about the same thickness as would a page from fabricated plates. Hmmmm.

So, you are wonder about the crafting of plates you vigorously deny existed?

When, supposedly, did the crafting first take place, and were the metal strips held together by three D shaped rings. And, at what point were the strips given the appearance of gold and "engraved with Egyptian characters" and "marks of antiquity"?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[AKS]

What you haven't addressed is if Moroni instructed Joseph Smith to keep quiet about the plates, how did three "assailants" just happen to pick the right day Joseph Smith was retrieving the plates?

Indeed. And if the assailants were hiding then not only would they have to know the day but also the approximate path that Joseph would take home. And then this would have to happen 3 different times in the stretch of 3 miles. I guess maybe there were hundreds of men stalking JS that night and we only know about the three that actually made contact with him.

If there were truly people that believed that Smith would be bringing home an invaluable artifact that night then why was there not a more choreographed effort to steal them?

[MAsh]

Indeed. And if the assailants were hiding then not only would they have to know the day but also the approximate path that Joseph would take home. And then this would have to happen 3 different times in the stretch of 3 miles. I guess maybe there were hundreds of men stalking JS that night and we only know about the three that actually made contact with him.

If there were truly people that believed that Smith would be bringing home an invaluable artifact that night then why was there not a more choreographed effort to steal them?

Yeah, it couldn't possibly be that they were trying to find the plates so J went there to get them before they were found. Then, while the men were spread out & combing the woods they saw J & gave chase.

No interpretation makes sense except for the one that paints JS as a lying fraud.

[Tchild2]

So, you are wonder about the crafting of plates you vigorously deny existed?

Post #91 of mine lists the four principal options. I lean towards #4. I vigoriously doubt that real "gold" plates existed originating from ancient peoples. I believe a crude-to moderate well crafted set of false plates had been constructed as a prop. That is probably why people were allowed to heft, and to feel the plates under cloth, but not to see:

"He refused to allow anyone, including his family, to view the plates or the other artifacts he said he had in his possession, although some people were allowed to heft them or feel what were said to be the artifacts through a cloth." Mormon Wiki

As to whether Joseph Smith had his fabricated plates in his possession on the day of the 3 mile walk? It is possible that he did, and due to the buzz of Joseph coming into possession of the golden plates, fellow treasure seekers wanted some of his valuable loot. I do believe that the story of assailants was fabricated or moderately to greatly embellished.

"By then, however, some of Smith's treasure-seeking company had heard that Smith said he had been successful in obtaining the plates, and they wanted what they believed was their share of the profits from what they viewed as part of a joint venture in treasure hunting." Mormon Wiki

When, supposedly, did the crafting first take place, and were the metal strips held together by three D shaped rings. And, at what point were the strips given the appearance of gold and "engraved with Egyptian characters" and "marks of antiquity"?

I am just starting to flesh out my theory, so the good stuff will have to wait.

[wenglund]

I am just starting to flesh out my theory, so the good stuff will have to wait.

Well...from the way you have been talking on this thread, all it should take for you to flesh out your theory is to do a few sets of bench presses and preacher curls.

It ilil be interesting to test it for believability when you are through. Until then...

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[krose]

You forgot to put a smiley or lol face at the end of this absurd suggestion. I'm hoping for your sake (speaking of embarassment) that this wasn't a serious thought.

Is your book for reassuring doubters written with the same tone as your responses in this thread? I'm hoping for your sake it isn't. LOL

[Calm]

Brad has started a new thread, yet has failed to respond to questions in this one.

[MAsh]

Is your book for reassuring doubters written with the same tone as your responses in this thread? I'm hoping for your sake it isn't. LOL

No, it's much milder. I guess the frustration of some of the outrageous claims in this thread have brought out a mean streak in me. Thanks for pointing this out. I'll try to change my tone. One of the problems with message boards is that attempts at humor & even mild sarcasm can come across as mean. If I've offended anyone, I apologize.

FYI, at the gym this morning, mostly to satisfy my curiousity, I grabbed a 60lb dumbell, dropped it on my toe and decided that JS was a fraud & quit Mormonism.

JK! I took the dumbell to the indoor track. Enroute I passed stairs to the upper level of my gym. So craddling the dumbell in my arms I ran up & down the two flights of stairs. So far so good. To be quite honest (and not sounding boastful because I'll bet lots of people on this list could out do me) I think that 20 years ago I could have hurdled a log while holding the weight. With the current state of my knees I wouldn't attempt to hurdle a log just with my own weight for fear of my knee giving out when I landed.

Anyhow... I headed to the track & then checked to make sure that there weren't too many extra eyes watching & wondering if I'd lost my marbles. Still craddling the dumbell I ran a lap (10 laps= mile). I ran at "top speed"-- which to me, means I ran as fast as I could under the conditions. I was no Jesse Owens, but I don't think I was "lumbering" either. I was moving fairly quickly. Admittedly I was out of breath after the lap and headed back to the weight room.

Now keep in mind, I'm about twice the age of J when he experienced his event & I have bad knees. I've never been much of a runner & although I have a cardio routine to burn a few extra cals & keep the heart healthy, cardio is not my strong suite.

The experiment, however, tells me that J could have made short burst runs in an attempt to escape an assailant (and for all we know he knocked them down, out, or kicked them in the groin before running off).

Unless we believe that J, his mother, and a host of other people were all liars, here are the facts:

The account is 2nd hand (from Lucy) and was written years after the event.

The account never says that J ran the entire time he was traveling through the woods.

It never says that he fought with one hand (why wouldn't he take a moment here & there to stop & rest & catch his breath-- survey his surroundings for trouble-- before moving on? why wouldn't he drop the plates to fight his adversaries?)

It never says that he outran his opponents, only that after fighting the first one, he ran at "top speed."

Other than an allusion to the first opponent, it never suggest that his assailants were just waiting behind trees, knowing he'd be traveling that exact route. They could have been searching for him & them chased him down (and even with the first assailant, this seems like the most plausible scenario).

L handled the covered plates & it seems reasonable that she would have seen that he had a heavy load wrapped in his frock when he came into the house-- so he arrived with something heavy & was out of breath & had a dislocated thumb.

We know that some of J's neighbors were after the plates before J retrieved them (so the fact that he went to get them before they were discovered makes perfect sense).

For those who disbelieve, there must be an alternative interpretation-- J made the story up; L made the story up; J was bringing home tin plates.

For those who believe, the story is perfectly logical and competely possible as long as we don't try to impose more to the story than the details warrant (i.e, he ran at a racer's pace for the entire 3 miles fighting off oppentents with a single hand while they just lined up in his path).

I guess it boils down to your belief that J was honest or dishonest.

[Jaybear]

Still craddling the dumbell I ran a lap (10 laps= mile). I ran at "top speed"-- which to me, means I ran as fast as I could under the conditions. I was no Jesse Owens, but I don't think I was "lumbering" either. I was moving fairly quickly. Admittedly I was out of breath after the lap and headed back to the weight room.

How fast is "as fast as I could under the conditions". If you are not going to film it, and put it on you tube, the least you could do was time it.

Bear in mind, if you could run 100 yards at a 25 second pace, an average ruffian spotting you 20 yards would catch you before you ran 80 yards. After that point, you would be exhausted, and the ruffian would be laughing at the thought that you thought you could outrun him, while carrying a 60 lb load under your arm.

[MAsh]

How fast is "as fast as I could under the conditions". If you are not going to film it, and put it on you tube, the least you could do was time it.

Bear in mind, if you could run 100 yards at a 25 second pace, an average ruffian spotting you 20 yards would catch you before you ran 80 yards. After that point, you would be exhausted, and the ruffian would be laughing at the thought that you thought you could outrun him, while carrying a 60 lb load under your arm.

This is the kind of absurd comment that pushed my sacrasm in this thread. I'll bite my tongue and hope you go back and re-read what I wrote.

Almost every time I come of lurk mode to make comments I end up regretting it because it seems like nothing is accomplished and too many people are unwilling to look at things logically.

[krose]

If I've offended anyone, I apologize.

Not me. I was just ribbing you.

FYI, at the gym this morning, mostly to satisfy my curiousity, I grabbed a 60lb dumbell, [etc.]

You are obviously in good shape, but you did say you've been weight training for decades, so of course you are. Now if only you would have asked three guys around your age to try to catch you and take the weight from you while you resisted them. Would that be too much to ask of innocent treadmill trotters?

It would have, at least, been fun to watch, sort of like what my high school coach called Donkey Basketball, which was played with one hand free and the other in a boxing glove, with the ball holder fair game.

I guess it boils down to your belief that J was honest or dishonest.

It always seems to, doesn't it?

[Jaybear]

This is the kind of absurd comment that pushed my sacrasm in this thread. I'll bite my tongue and hope you go back and re-read what I wrote.

Almost every time I come of lurk mode to make comments I end up regretting it because it seems like nothing is accomplished and too many people are unwilling to look at things logically.

Oh I get what you wrote, just because Smith was running, doesn't (necessarily) mean he was being chased. You believe that (its possible) that in each instance he was confronted, he incapacitated the ruffians, before hastily leaving the scene with the plates.

In that case, however, what purpose was served by your demonstration? Critics are not claiming that he could not hastily carry the plates through the woods. They are saying its absurd to think that he could outrun a band of ruffians while carrying 40-60lbs of plates under the arm.

If you want to say, "the critics are right, its absurd to think that Smith could outrun the assailants while carrying the plated, so here is what I believed must have happened...." then by all means make that claim.

[Tchild2]

This is the kind of absurd comment that pushed my sacrasm in this thread. I'll bite my tongue and hope you go back and re-read what I wrote.

Almost every time I come of lurk mode to make comments I end up regretting it because it seems like nothing is accomplished and too many people are unwilling to look at things logically.

Perhaps the criticisms of the story is just based on what was reported, and not on what might have happened, but wasn't mentioned? The story would make lots of sense if the events of the day were recollected differently by Lucy Mack Smith. For a believer, Joseph Smith absolutely had the plates as reported, and since he definitely had them, was not a liar/embellisher, thefore his story had to happen somehow and it is the recollected facts that are merely lacking, not the generall story itself. That makes perfect sense.

On the flip side, for a skeptic, the plates never existed, so the story served some self-serving purpose of deception on the part of Joseph Smith. It is possible that the buzz of the plates Joseph claimed existed, got his fellow treasure seekers very excited and willing to rob him. It is also possible that J.S was finally bringing home his fabricated plates and wanted to "prep" those all too curious friends and family who would be most curious to see the plates for themselves, and Joseph needed strong reasons why they should be forbidden (by God or the angel of course) from seeing his prop.

Of course, some combination of reality/embellishment may have occurred when Joseph Smith was returning home during that walk with or without a fabricated set of plates, but it stands to reason most probably that the events did not unfold as Lucy Mack Smith recollected. Hence, the skepticisms.

[mledbetter]

Tchild2 has reiterated many times that military soldiers et al. carry their extra loads distributed over their body. Yet people keep chiming in with "well soldiers [yadda yadda yadda] ..."

With my young boys, we've run in a couple 5K races. Being little kids, I've had to carry them during the race. Each one being 30 and 40 pounds, I can tell you that running with either one under my arm is fatiguing before I even get 100 yards in (and that's even with most of their weight resting on my hips, not my arm.) OTOH, when I carry them on my back or on my shoulders (with the weight distributed over my body and/or directly above my center of mass) I can go a lot farther without getting fatigued.

I'm just sayin'.

And chances are that you weren't running from people who were trying to attack or kill you.

[wenglund]

As I mentioned earlier, there are those of us who aren't certain whether Lucy's late secondhand account of the event in question is entirely accurate or not, but could care less one way or the other since upon none of her story do any of us (at least to my knowledge) rest our faith in the restored gospel and the verity of the Book of Mormon. In truth, it is a non-issue for us.

However, it appears to be an issue for certain chronic skeptics and former members. For whatever reason, the secondhand story told by Joseph's mother some 15 years after the events in question appears to be significant to their unbelief, and I find that interesting and would like to know how and why. And, I think it only fair that the magnifying glass of skepticism be turned back on them.

As such, I would like to know from the skeptics their opinions on

1. What portions, if any, of Lucy's late secondhand account of the event in question do you believe Joseph had actually told her?

2. What portions, if any, of what you believe Joseph told Lucy, do you think actually happened?

If you would like to read the acount online, then click HERE, and select Chapter 22, and scroll down to page 108. However, it may be beneficial to also get some baground by reading:

Chapter 17, pp. 77-78

Chapter 18, pp. 80-85

Chapter 21, pp. 97, 101

Chapter 22, pp. 102-110

It should be noted that Joseph Knight, Sr.'s journal corraborates at least that he was there at the Smiths during the event in question, and was told by Joseph Smith about the plates and the Urim and Thummim. (see HERE)

It should also be noted that Willard Chase claimed that Joseph Sr had told him about the plates in June of 1827, and that in September of the same year Joseph Jr had asked him to make a chest to lock up the "gold book". (see mormoninformation website on wchase)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[LeSellers]

Please consider this a formal CFR.

if Moroni instructed Joseph Smith to keep quiet about the plates, how did three "assailants" just happen to pick the right day Joseph Smith was retrieving the plates? Did J.S. ever report being assailed before the day he actually had the plates on mere rumor that he had them? Surely, if people knew of the plates before he had possession of them, they would have been trying to get them from day 1.

Do you have any information on this hypothetical instruction "to keep quiet about the plates"? Because it seems Joseph did not follow it if it existed.

According to Lucy Mack, they did try "to get them from day 1."

His family all knew. His dying brother Alvin knew about them, and so did Emma. The other brothers knew beforehand that he would get them in September, 1827. It is doubtful that this kind of information would be kept solely in the family. Samuel Lawrence knew about the plates, so did Joseph Knight, Sr., and perhaps the entire village of Palmyra.

Lehi

[mnn727]

As a former farm boy myself, I think many people here are overplaying that angle as a reason to attribute exceptional strength to a person. Sure, I used to be able to carry two bales of hay at once, and throw them up on top of a stack on the truck. But there is no way I could compete in strength with the football players who spent their days in the weight room, and I certainly couldn't run faster than the guys down the road who spent their weekends partying hard.

So now Joseph was fighting football players who had their own weight room in 1829? Must have been time traveling NFLers

[Moon Quaker]

Tchild2 has reiterated many times that military soldiers et al. carry their extra loads distributed over their body. Yet people keep chiming in with "well soldiers [yadda yadda yadda] ..."

With my young boys, we've run in a couple 5K races. Being little kids, I've had to carry them during the race. Each one being 30 and 40 pounds, I can tell you that running with either one under my arm is fatiguing before I even get 100 yards in (and that's even with most of their weight resting on my hips, not my arm.) OTOH, when I carry them on my back or on my shoulders (with the weight distributed over my body and/or directly above my center of mass) I can go a lot farther without getting fatigued.

I'm just sayin'.

And chances are that you weren't running from people who were trying to attack or kill you.

Not for this race.

On a tangent, though, a 5 kilometers race is right close to 3 miles (the same distance JS was on the run for whilst carrying the Golden Plates.) So entirely for kicks and giggles, I think the church should create and sponsor an annual 5K (3 mi.) race of their own. It would be the perfect addition to the Pioneer Day celebrations coming up in a few days. The current 5K race that's part of the Deseret News Marathon could be phased out and replaced with "The Deseret News Joseph Smith Golden Plates 5K."

Dear Contestant,

Thank you for registering for "The Deseret News Joseph Smith Golden Plates 5K." This year's race is guaranteed to be exciting as ever.

In your race packet you will find a "Deseret News Joseph Smith Golden Plates 5K" race shirt, a race bib with your race number, 50-pound weight (patterned after the dimensions and likeness of the Golden Plates) to be carried through the length of the entire race, and some other goodies.

Your race bib must be pinned to your shirt where it can be seen by judged. In carrying your "Golden Plates," you may do so however you please (e.g., under your arm(s), swung over your shoulder in a linen shirt, etc.) just so long as you only stick to methods plausibly used by Jospeh Smith.

Unlike other road races, where runners run unimpeded, "The Deseret News Joseph Smith Golden Plates 5K" branches to new territory. It's not your ordinary road race; it's an obstacle course as well! During the race, you must avoid the many logs and boulders placed on the path. Plus "treacherous ne'er-do-good villains" will jump out from behind trees to get you (don't worry, they're not really bad guys in-real-life, just some volunteers rounded up to play the part.)

In trying to keep this race authentic to the conditions that Joseph Smith faced, there will NOT be any aid/water stations on the route and neither will their be any refreshment/water at the finish line. Besides, anyone who sets down their "Golden Plates" and/or stops to rest during the race will automatically be disqualified.

This is a low-key fun run, there will be no prize money. However, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place winners will receive medals; Celestial Medal, Terrestrial Medal and Telestial Medal, respectively.

See you at the finish line! Have fun and don't get inured!

[wenglund]

Here is what Willard Chase said in 1843 about the event in question:

"A few weeks after this conversation, he [Joseph Smith] came to my house, and related the following story: That on the 22d of September, he arose early in the morning, and took a one horse wagon, of some one that had stayed over night at their house, without leave or license; and, together with his wife, repaired to the hill which contained the book. He left his wife in the wagon, by the road, and went alone to the hill, a distance of thirty or forty rods from the road; he said he then took the book out of the ground and hid it in a tree top, and returned home. He then went to the town of Macedon to work. After about ten days, it having been suggested that some one had got his book, his wife went after him; he hired a horse, and went home in the afternoon, staid long enough to drink one cup of tea, and then went for his book, found it safe, took off his frock, wrapt it round it, put it under his arm and run all the way home, a distance of about two miles. He said he should think it would weigh sixty pounds, and was sure it would weigh forty. On his return home, he said he was attacked by two men in the woods, and knocked them both down and made his escape, arrived safe and secured his treasure.

Here is what Lucy said in her history first publish in 1853:

"The plates were secreted about three miles from home, in the following manner: Finding an old birch log much decayed, excepting the bark, which was in a measure sound, he took his pocket knife and cut the bark with some care, then turned it back and made a hole of sufficient size to receive the plates, and, laying them in the cavity thus formed, he replaced the bark; after which he laid across the log, in several places, some old stuff that happened to lay near, in order to conceal as much as possible the place in which they were deposited. Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home. After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile farther he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one, he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running. After resting a few moments, he desired me to send Carlos for my husband, Mr. Knight, and his friend Stoal, and have them go immediately and see if they could find the men who had been pursuing him. And after Carlos had done this, he wished to have him sent to Hyrum's, to tell him to bring the chest. I did as I was requested, and when Carlos arrived at Hyrum's, he found him at tea with two of his wife's sisters. Just as Hyrum was raising a cup to his mouth, Carlos touched his shoulder. Without waiting to hear one word from the child, he dropped the cup, sprang from the table, caught the chest, turned it upside down, and emptying its contents on the floor, left the house instantly with the chest on his shoulder....When the chest came, Joseph locked up the Record, then threw himself upon the bed and after resting a little, so that he could converse freely, he arose and went into the kitchen, where he related his recent adventure to his father, Mr. Knight, and Mr. Stoal, besides many others who had by this time collected, with the view of hearing something in regard to the strange circumstance which had taken place. He showed them his thumb, saying, 'I must stop talking, father, and get you to put my thumb in place, for it is very painful.' I will here mention that my husband, Mr. Knight, and Mr. Stoal went in pursuit of those villains who had attempted Joseph's life, but were not able to find them."

Thanks, -Wade Englund-