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Does Growth Numbers Of The Church Stack Up?


solomarineris

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When the Church announces that membership reached 13Million how does it come up with those numbers with less than quarter million converts?

In order to achieve these numbers;

A) There should be no deaths within the church body (none reported as statistic)

B) There are no resignations reported (the rumor has it anywhere from 10 to 100thousand yearly)

C)All converts stay active. ( It is well known fact that over half of converts fall inactive within first year)

D)For 240.000 converts buildings needed, if we divide it by 500congregation per building it adds up to 480 buildings per year, where are they built?

I am sure there are many more factors, criterias I am missing but Public seldom hears any facts beyond a number is given by the Church.

I wonder if that is enough information to go by.

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Year â?? Members â?? Stakes â?? Wards & Branches

1997 â?? 10071783 â?? 2424 â?? 20776

1998 â?? 10354241 â?? 2505 â?? 21649

1999 â?? 10752986 â?? 2542 â?? 21897

2000 â?? 11068861 â?? 2581 â?? 22015

2001 â?? 11394522 â?? 2607 â?? 22184

2002 â?? 11721548 â?? 2602 â?? 22243

2003 - 11985254 - 2624 - 22418

2004 - 12275822 - 2665 - 22886

2005 - 12560869 - 2701 - 23307

So... the increase in wards for each year would be:

1997-1998 = 873

1998-1999 = 248

1999-2000 = 118

2000-2001 = 169

2001-2002 = 59

2002-2003 = 175

2003-2004 = 468

2004-2005 = 421

Increase in number of members between 1997-2005 = 2,489,086

Increase in number of wards/branches between 1997-2005 = 2,531

Number of members per creation of a ward/branch = 983.44

As far as buildings are concerned... I believe that an average of 3-4 wards attend a given building.

Edited to add:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=23046 (Old thread where Alf hooks up some good stuff)

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index.php?showtopic=23497 (In this thread I hook up the ward/stake stats -- and Helmuth hooks up some graph action)

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As far as buildings are concerned... I believe that an average of 3-4 wards attend a given building.

That's high. In Utah the max I have ever seen is three. I served my mission there and visited quite a few stakes.

Outside of Utah it is less common for 2 - 3 wards to meet in one building, mostly due to geography. Although in some of the more populated Mormon areas such as Idaho, Washignton, and Alberta this will be seen frequently. However, you will find a lot of 'one ward' towns or 'one stake cities' where a ward will have its own building. This is typical in the east. Though less populated than heavier concentrations in Utah, it is still quite significant.

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That's high. In Utah the max I have ever seen is three. I served my mission there and visited quite a few stakes.

Outside of Utah it is less common for 2 - 3 wards to meet in one building, mostly due to geography. Although in some of the more populated Mormon areas such as Idaho, Washignton, and Alberta this will be seen frequently. However, you will find a lot of 'one ward' towns or 'one stake cities' where a ward will have its own building. This is typical in the east. Though less populated than heavier concentrations in Utah, it is still quite significant.

Good point. I was taking my own experiences to be the norm:

My current meeting house has meetings at 9:00, 11:00 and 1:00. My Previous meeting house (which was at a Stake Center) had meetings at 7:00, 9:00, 11:00, 1:00, and 3:00. There was a building being refurbished during this time though, which is why there was a 7:00 meeting.

But, I know that in the Bryce Valley area there are three towns, three buildings, and three wards (one building per ward). So... methinks you are correct that 2 (to perhaps 3) would be a more accurate number. Maybe we should go with 2.3 wards per a building?

[edited to correct "ward" to "meeting house"]

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Maybe we should go with 2.3 wards per a building?

10,000 meetinghouses? That sounds like as good of a WAG as any.

(A slightly off-topic comment: If you suppose that each building averages about $5,000,000 in value, that's $50 billion just in meetinghouses, not counting other Church real estate. The "less than $2 billion" for the downtown SLC project is obviously just a drop in the bucket as far as Church real estate goes, and not worth the way some folks are getting worked up over it.)

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C)All converts stay active. ( It is well known fact that over half of converts fall inactive within first year)

What does activity have to do with membership? Sometimes I am active and sometimes I am not, does not mean I am not a member. We should also remember that non-LDS churches, denominations, ect also base their membership on who "signs up" and not "activity". I highly doubt that all the 16 million southern baptists are "active". How many Catholics are "active"?

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That's high. In Utah the max I have ever seen is three. I served my mission there and visited quite a few stakes.

Outside of Utah it is less common for 2 - 3 wards to meet in one building, mostly due to geography. Although in some of the more populated Mormon areas such as Idaho, Washignton, and Alberta this will be seen frequently. However, you will find a lot of 'one ward' towns or 'one stake cities' where a ward will have its own building. This is typical in the east. Though less populated than heavier concentrations in Utah, it is still quite significant.

I do not want to suggest that our area is doing a good job of missionary work. We are fair at best.

But, our stake just split a few weeks ago.

We still have 4 wards that attend in our building.

I am fairly certain that my Sister-in-Law attended a ward that was 5 to a building (I think they may be down to 4 now).

I think 3 wards to a building is considered full for most buildings.

The ward I was in 10 years ago is now three wards, but only two attend in our original building because the parking lot and classrooms will not hold the all three.

Anyway, I know that 3/building is not set in stone so I thought I would add my 2 cents.

Charity, TOm

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A) There should be no deaths within the church body (none reported as statistic)

cool.gif There are no resignations reported (the rumor has it anywhere from 10 to 100thousand yearly)

C)All converts stay active. ( It is well known fact that over half of converts fall inactive within first year)

As far as I know, all stay on the books till they reach age 110.
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I do not want to suggest that our area is doing a good job of missionary work. We are fair at best.

But, our stake just split a few weeks ago.

We still have 4 wards that attend in our building.

I am fairly certain that my Sister-in-Law attended a ward that was 5 to a building (I think they may be down to 4 now).

I think 3 wards to a building is considered full for most buildings.

The ward I was in 10 years ago is now three wards, but only two attend in our original building because the parking lot and classrooms will not hold the all three.

Anyway, I know that 3/building is not set in stone so I thought I would add my 2 cents.

Charity, TOm

Of course, there may be exceptions :P

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As far as I know, all stay on the books till they reach age 110.

And as far as I know, the only people who stay on the roles until their eleventh-first birthday are those in the "lost member" file. In other words, those with whom the Church has lost contact and has no way of knowing whether they are alive or dead. The rest of us get taken off the roles when we kick the bucket.

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I do not want to suggest that our area is doing a good job of missionary work. We are fair at best.

But, our stake just split a few weeks ago.

We still have 4 wards that attend in our building.

I am fairly certain that my Sister-in-Law attended a ward that was 5 to a building (I think they may be down to 4 now).

I think 3 wards to a building is considered full for most buildings.

The ward I was in 10 years ago is now three wards, but only two attend in our original building because the parking lot and classrooms will not hold the all three.

Anyway, I know that 3/building is not set in stone so I thought I would add my 2 cents.

Charity, TOm

If you are splitting stakes, then it is quite reasonable that membership growth there is outstripping meetinghouse construction, so 4 or 5 wards in a building is an understandable consequence.

I would expect to see additional meetinghouses built as property can be acquired, permits obtained, and construction completed. Those things do, of course, take a signifcant amount of time.

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That's high. In Utah the max I have ever seen is three. I served my mission there and visited quite a few stakes.

Outside of Utah it is less common for 2 - 3 wards to meet in one building, mostly due to geography. Although in some of the more populated Mormon areas such as Idaho, Washignton, and Alberta this will be seen frequently. However, you will find a lot of 'one ward' towns or 'one stake cities' where a ward will have its own building. This is typical in the east. Though less populated than heavier concentrations in Utah, it is still quite significant.

I'm in Texas. 5 wards currently meet in our Stake Center. 2 wards meet in our building. Not at all uncommon in the 4 stakes in the city.

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I'm in Texas. 5 wards currently meet in our Stake Center. 2 wards meet in our building. Not at all uncommon in the 4 stakes in the city.

*shrugs* perhaps I was in error. Having served in over 20 Utah stakes and visited a dozen other stakes in Ontario, New York, Mass, Connecticutt, etc, that's what observed :P

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What does activity have to do with membership? Sometimes I am active and sometimes I am not, does not mean I am not a member. We should also remember that non-LDS churches, denominations, ect also base their membership on who "signs up" and not "activity". I highly doubt that all the 16 million southern baptists are "active". How many Catholics are "active"?

What it means freakin man, is that you baptise an individual and she/he quits attending after few months and never comes back. It's not like you who feels something missing in his life, returns and attends it.

Naw that you are mentioning other denominations, let me tell you, they are dismal, including my own small community which boast over 5 thousand members in the city but less than hundred attend the church any given Sunday.

What I am getting at is; numbers mean nothing, if anything it exposes the fallacy.

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That's high. In Utah the max I have ever seen is three. I served my mission there and visited quite a few stakes.

Outside of Utah it is less common for 2 - 3 wards to meet in one building, mostly due to geography. Although in some of the more populated Mormon areas such as Idaho, Washignton, and Alberta this will be seen frequently. However, you will find a lot of 'one ward' towns or 'one stake cities' where a ward will have its own building. This is typical in the east. Though less populated than heavier concentrations in Utah, it is still quite significant.

In my stake in Washington they wouldn't build a new building until there were four wards meeting in each building in the city. 3:00 church meetings are not fun, believe me. We did it a few times.

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You'd think there would be a correlation.

There is, it's in the bible-

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. "

:P

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What it means freakin man, is that you baptise an individual and she/he quits attending after few months and never comes back. It's not like you who feels something missing in his life, returns and attends it.

Naw that you are mentioning other denominations, let me tell you, they are dismal, including my own small community which boast over 5 thousand members in the city but less than hundred attend the church any given Sunday.

What I am getting at is; numbers mean nothing, if anything it exposes the fallacy.

So are you saying the Church should not keep track of it's membership? If not, why not? If a member gets baptized and then quits coming, is it your opinion that the Church should then drop them from their records (whether the member wants it or not) and then, if the person decides to come back many years later, they should be told that they need to get baptized again? I don't really understand what the point is that your are trying to make.

Regards,

T-Shirt

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Two chapels in one building? Wow. We can't buildings here (northwest Oregon) fast enough because of the idiotic land use laws. Any church building has to get a variance, and all it takes to slow down and even stop a building is a few determined anti-Mormons to show up at the zoning meetings, protest about increased traffic and security lighting, and you are down the drain.

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Two chapels in one building? Wow. We can't buildings here (northwest Oregon) fast enough because of the idiotic land use laws. Any church building has to get a variance, and all it takes to slow down and even stop a building is a few determined anti-Mormons to show up at the zoning meetings, protest about increased traffic and security lighting, and you are down the drain.

There is one church in wyoming that occupies an entire city block and has two chapels in it. It's pretty impressive.

On the topic of wards per building-i think, as rick said, it varies on where a person is. I have a friend who has live in the eastern part of the u.s. for quite a few years now and she has never had to share a chapel with another ward (and she's lived in 4 different places in 3 states i believe).

:P

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