Does Growth Numbers Of The Church Stack Up?

[oats]

East of california, arizona, idaho and those lds dense western states most buildings are 1 ward or branch/building.

Except in the larger cities. If you check out the cumorah website there are maps (all mostly outdated, but they give a good idea) of the ward clusters. You can tell if they meet in the same buildings or not because the wards will either be attached together or spread out.

http://www.cumorah.com/atlas/north_america/canada.html

The big cities have wards that are clumped together and likely meet in the same buildings. The rest are all spread thin. Except in Alberta.

[krose]

Year â?? Members â?? Stakes â?? Wards & Branches

1997 â?? 10071783 â?? 2424 â?? 20776

1998 â?? 10354241 â?? 2505 â?? 21649

1999 â?? 10752986 â?? 2542 â?? 21897

2000 â?? 11068861 â?? 2581 â?? 22015

2001 â?? 11394522 â?? 2607 â?? 22184

2002 â?? 11721548 â?? 2602 â?? 22243

2003 - 11985254 - 2624 - 22418

2004 - 12275822 - 2665 - 22886

2005 - 12560869 - 2701 - 23307

Just a question to those who have been to several different areas: what do you estimate is the average number of active, position-holding members in any given ward or branch?

[mnn727]

Outside of Utah it is less common for 2 - 3 wards to meet in one building, mostly due to geography.

Having lived in 3 states outside of Utah and 'the mountain west' I assure you the above statement is not true in my experience, we have 3 wards in our Texas bldg, there were 2 in my Fla building (only because they just built a new one that took the 3rd one out the year before I moved there).

Only when I lived in rural Wisconsin was there 1 ward in the building and when I went back 2 years later for a visit they had just split the ward and both were meeting there.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

There should be no deaths within the church body (none reported as statistic)

There is probably some lag time here.

There are no resignations reported (the rumor has it anywhere from 10 to 100thousand yearly)

This is a long process...

C)All converts stay active. ( It is well known fact that over half of converts fall inactive within first year)

Active or inactive does not affect church roles IN ANY CHURCH

D)For 240.000 converts buildings needed, if we divide it by 500congregation per building it adds up to 480 buildings per year, where are they built?

Yeah, if they all lived in the same place

I am sure there are many more factors, criterias I am missing but Public seldom hears any facts beyond a number is given by the Church.

Yes like thousands of babies...they are called "Children of record"

I wonder if that is enough information to go by.

No

Pa Pa

[bluebell]

Just a question to those who have been to several different areas: what do you estimate is the average number of active, position-holding members in any given ward or branch?

I've lived in idaho, montana, and wyoming (and for a few months in northern cali) and most of the wards i have attended seemed to average between 200 and 300 people there on sunday.

One ward in idaho struggled and usually only had about 100 but that was mostly due to the demongraphics of the ward boundaries (which were mostly 'out of town' and the rural parts around the city) Another ward i attended in the same city had about 400 there every sunday and you could hardly move-i hated going, it was too crowded.

[oats]

In the Eastern-most part of Canada there is about 33% sacrament meeting attendance. If you figure to how many attend at least once a month is goes to about 40%. Some branches/wards are higher, some are lower. It is an average.

It was the same in So. California. Sunday attendance would generally be about 1/3 what was was on the ward membership records.

[juliann]

Outside of Utah it is less common for 2 - 3 wards to meet in one building, mostly due to geography. Although in some of the more populated Mormon areas such as Idaho, Washignton, and Alberta this will be seen frequently. However, you will find a lot of 'one ward' towns or 'one stake cities' where a ward will have its own building. This is typical in the east. Though less populated than heavier concentrations in Utah, it is still quite significant.

In all my years in So. CA, I have never been in a stake that doesn't have at least 2 wards per bldg and some have gone up to 4. We currently have three wards in our bldg.

Measuring by activity seems to be the fall back position when someone doesn't like the numbers. How many times do we hear tongue clucking that Catholics should be doing detective work to see how often their members attend mass?

[Doctor Steuss]

Just a question to those who have been to several different areas: what do you estimate is the average number of active, position-holding members in any given ward or branch?

Man with some good genes,

Are you wondering about only the number of people that hold positions/callings, or the number of people that are active (i.e. show up almost every week for church)? If the former; what would you consider to be a position/calling (i.e. being a home teacher, ward librarian, primary teacher, priest quorum teacher, etc.)?

[Lightbearer]

According to the last General Conference this was the Statistical report:

Stakes

2,745

Missions

344

Districts

630

Wards and Branches

27,475

Church Membership

Total Membership

12,868,606

Increase in Children of Record

94,006

Converts Baptized

272,845

Missionaries

Number of Full-Time Missionaries

53,164

Temples

Temples Dedicated during 2006

2

(Sacramento California and Helsinki Finland)

Temples Rededicated during 2006

2

(Santiago Chile and Papeete Tahiti)

Total Number of Temples Currently in Operation

124

Having been a Ward Clerk I know that there is a quarterly statistical report that must be transmitted to Salt Lake through the MIS system. I believe it is as accurate as each unit's report is and I know that it is tracked by each unit so I do not see how Church headquarters could "cook the books" and why on earth would they want to? I suppose the Church could track the numbers of inactives but then that number would always be in flux. If you are suggesting that the Church keeps deceased members or excommunicated members on the rolls you are very mistaken.

[AndyOne]

"Active or inactive does not affect church roles IN ANY CHURCH"

JWs and SDAs report this way. The UMC apparently has no problem sharing weekly attendance figures:

http://www.umc.org/site/c.gjJTJbMUIuE/b.88...tinues_down.htm

[Jaybear]

If you are suggesting that the Church keeps deceased members or excommunicated members on the rolls you are very mistaken.

How do you know? Are you saying that you have access to the LDS Church's membership data?

Without access to the data, which I understand is sacred, how does one know whether members who have resigned or died are removed from the official membership total?

[thesometimesaint]

Jaybear:

Sacredness is a question for another day. To reveal individual membership records would be an invasion of privacy.

[bluebell]

Without access to the data, which I understand is sacred,....

no, no. They're not sacred they're secret.

[Lightbearer]

How do you know? Are you saying that you have access to the LDS Church's membership data?

Without access to the data, which I understand is sacred, how does one know whether members who have resigned or died are removed from the official membership total?

How do I know? I know how the MIS system works, when a deceased person is removed from the system they are removed the same is true with excommunications. Unless you think the Church is involved in some sort of conspirsy in which the statistics are separated from the MIS system just so they can decieve the world by how many members we have. (Say I think this would fit well into the ridiculous anti-Mormon theory thread!)

[juliann]

"Active or inactive does not affect church roles IN ANY CHURCH"

JWs and SDAs report this way. The UMC apparently has no problem sharing weekly attendance figures:

http://www.umc.org/site/c.gjJTJbMUIuE/b.88...tinues_down.htm

No tney don't "report this way". They are reporting membership. An off the top of my head memory of activity rates are around 30% or something (that is a guess). Where is the problem?

Two United Methodist annual conferences grew by more than 7,000 members during 2004. In addition, average attendance at morning worship grew by a small margin while membership in the denomination in the United States declined by more than 71,000 from the previous year.

[juliann]

How do you know? Are you saying that you have access to the LDS Church's membership data?

Do you think the data is beamed in from satellites? We have a rotating lay ministry...why wouldn't they know how who they are removing and how they do it?

[Jaybear]

Do you think the data is beamed in from satellites? We have a rotating lay ministry...why wouldn't they know how who they are removing and how they do it?

I expect that the ward clerk would have access to the ward database. That obvious.

The question I asked if he had access to the broader membership database. I suspect that access to that database is restricted to SLC staffers.

[AndyOne]

Julian questions my statement that JWs and SDAs report by reference to attendance. She writes: "No tney don't 'report this way'. They are reporting membership."

So, I ask Julian - do you know what it takes to be counted as a member of the JWs or SDAs? Can you explain why census counts based on religious affiliation are far more accurate for these groups than for LDS? Do you really even know what you're talking about?

[juliann]

I expect that the ward clerk would have access to the ward database. That obvious.

The question I asked if he had access to the broader membership database. I suspect that access to that database is restricted to SLC staffers.

No, your point was: "how does one know whether members who have resigned or died are removed from the official membership total? "

The locals are sending in the data. So they are the ones who know who is removed and why...unless you are claiming SLC just makes it all up.

[AndyOne]

"The locals are sending in the data. So they are the ones who know who is removed and why...unless you are claiming SLC just makes it all up."

There is no central membership data base that local clerks can access. Local and central records are reconciled - but local records may or may not pick up all local "members" depending on how many are either dead (unbeknownst to local leaders) or inactive with address unknown. What SLC central does with the information is not known by a local clerk. A local clerk can remove an ex'd member from the local database, but doesn't control the central database.

[oats]

Andy is right. I don't know how exactly it works, but it seems like all the membership records are stored in SLC and then, if you want to visualize it, they are assigned to different wards and branches. They still maintain their place in Church records at headquarters.

Many of those records are not assigned a ward or branch because people are 'lost'. There are a lot of people at Church headquarters that try and track down lost members. They usually contact them by phone or mail or something when they are found.

The JWs, at least, have certain standards their members have to meet in order to be considered active and counted as a Witness. All the people baptized as JWs are not counted on their Witness lists or reports or whatever they are called. The LDS Church counts all who are baptized, regardless of activity status.

[bluebell]

The JWs, at least, have certain standards their members have to meet in order to be considered active and counted as a Witness. All the people baptized as JWs are not counted on their Witness lists or reports or whatever they are called. The LDS Church counts all who are baptized, regardless of activity status.

that seems more like differing beliefs than standards.

In the LDS church someone becomes a member when they are baptized-they do not stop being a member if they become inactive.

But the JW's seem to believe differently and that membership in that church is counted in a different way.

[mocnarf]

Gee, I always thought those LDS membership numbers represented everyone that had ever been baptised in life or in proxy.

[jadams_4242]

That's high. In Utah the max I have ever seen is three. I served my mission there and visited quite a few stakes.

Outside of Utah it is less common for 2 - 3 wards to meet in one building, mostly due to geography. Although in some of the more populated Mormon areas such as Idaho, Washignton, and Alberta this will be seen frequently. However, you will find a lot of 'one ward' towns or 'one stake cities' where a ward will have its own building. This is typical in the east. Though less populated than heavier concentrations in Utah, it is still quite significant.

Well in our town we have five wards in one of our buildings! four in another,

[solomarineris]

If you are suggesting that the Church keeps deceased members or excommunicated members on the rolls you are very mistaken.

I know for a fact that I am not mistaken lightbearer, otherwise we would get some numbers (even pseudo) about these clasifications.

Do you wonder why public is not informed about those numbers? (inacivity,death,resignation, etc.,)