Tonga Member Devotional Elder Neal L Anderson

[mburgess1982]

Elder Neal L Anderson: 

"We do our best to testify of Jesus Christ. We know He lives. We have experiences and sacred moments so remarkable and unforgettable that we can say with surety that He lives, that He is resurrected, and that He guides our work upon the earth."

"I've often wondered why they don’t just come out and say they’ve personally seen Christ, they always seem to stop just short of saying it, and yet its very much implied

@ 1:00:00
 

 

[Notatbm]

52 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

Elder Neal L Anderson: 

"We do our best to testify of Jesus Christ. We know He lives. We have experiences and sacred moments so remarkable and unforgettable that we can say with surety that He lives, that He is resurrected, and that He guides our work upon the earth."

"I've often wondered why they don’t just come out and say they’ve personally seen Christ, they always seem to stop just short of saying it, and yet its very much implied

@ 1:00:00
 

 

They don’t say it because they have not seen him. There are many things church leaders have lied about in the past, but I believe they at least have enough integrity to not go down that road.
 

Many like to say it’s too sacred to talk about if they had, but that didn’t stop Joseph smith from saying so about allegedly the most arguably sacred “appearance “ of Jesus to anyone in recorded history. … or was it Heavenly Father himself??? Or both of them?  I dont recall and neither did Joseph smith apparently.  

Edited March 26 by Notatbm

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

They don’t say it because they have not seen him. There are many things church leaders have lied about in the past, but I believe they at least have enough integrity to not go down that road.
 

Many like to say it’s too sacred to talk about if they had, but that didn’t stop Joseph smith from saying so about allegedly the most arguably sacred “appearance “ of Jesus to anyone in recorded history. … or was it Heavenly Father himself??? Or both of them?  I dont recall and neither did Joseph smith apparently.  

what do you think about apostles and prophets who said they have seen him? How would you know they are lying?

[mburgess1982]

2 hours ago, Notatbm said:

They don’t say it because they have not seen him. There are many things church leaders have lied about in the past, but I believe they at least have enough integrity to not go down that road.
 

Many like to say it’s too sacred to talk about if they had, but that didn’t stop Joseph smith from saying so about allegedly the most arguably sacred “appearance “ of Jesus to anyone in recorded history. … or was it Heavenly Father himself??? Or both of them?  I dont recall and neither did Joseph smith apparently.  

I found a few quotes. I think to assume they haven't seen him is based on nothing but opinion. Their testimonies seem to say otherwise. I'm sure there are many more than this, but its what I was able to quickly find

 

As one of those called as special witnesses, I add my testimony to those of fellow Apostles: He lives! He lives with resurrected body. There is no truth or fact of which I am more assured, or know better by personal experience, than the truth of the literal resurrection of our Lord.[1]- Ezra Taft Benson

 

And so on the third day following His burial, He came forth from the tomb alive and showed Himself to many. There were witnesses then who saw Him. There have been many in this dispensation who have seen Him. As one of those special witnesses…I testify to you that He lives. He lives with a resurrected body.[2] - Ezra Taft Benson
 

 ‘He [Elder Brown] said it was not a vision, but the Lord appeared to him, very informal, the same as I was sitting talking to him. The Lord said, ‘You have had some difficult times in your life.’ Uncle Hugh responded, ‘Yes, and your life was more difficult than any of us have had.’ In the conversation Uncle Hugh asked when he would be finished here, and the Lord said, ‘I don’t know and I wouldn’t tell you if I did.’ Then He said, ‘Remain faithful to the end, and everything will be all right.’[3]- Hugh B. Brown

 

Mine is the certain knowledge that Jesus is our divine Savior, Redeemer, and the son of God the Father. I know of his reality by a sure perception so sacred I cannot give utterance to it. I know and testify with an absolute awareness that Joseph Smith restored the keys of the fulness of times and that every President of the Church has held those keys, as does President Gordon B. Hinckley today.[5]- James E. Faust

 

I know that this is the Lord’s work. I know that Jesus Christ lives, and that he is closer to this Church and appears more often in holy places than any of us realize, excepting those to whom he makes personal appearance.[9] - Harold B. Lee

 

Why don't our talks in general conference and local meetings say more about the miracles we have seen? Most of the miracles we experience are not to be shared. Consistent with the teachings of the scriptures, we hold them sacred and share them only when the Spirit prompts us to do so…In bearing testimonies and in our public addresses we rarely mention our most miraculous experiences, and we rarely rely on signs that the gospel is true. We usually just affirm our testimony of the truthfulness of the restored gospel and give few details on how we obtained it. Why is this? Signs _follow_ those that believe. Seeking a miracle to convert someone is improper sign seeking. By the same token, it is usually inappropriate to recite miraculous circumstances to a general audience that includes people with very different levels of spiritual maturity. To a general audience, miracles will be faith-reinforcing for some but an inappropriate sign for others.[12]

Visions do happen. Voices are heard from beyond the veil. I know this. But these experiences are exceptional. And those who have these great and exceptional experiences rarely speak of them publicly because we are instructed not to do so (see D&C 63:64) and because we understand that the channels of revelation will be closed if we show these things before the world.[13] - Dallin H. Oaks

 

[In his journal, Marion G. Romney wrote:] I don't know just how to answer people when they ask the question, "Have you seen the Lord?" I think that the witness that I have and the witness that each of us has, and the details of how it came, are too sacred to tell. I have never told anybody some of the experiences I have had, not even my wife. I know that God lives. I not only know that he lives, but I know him.[23] - Marion G. Romney

 

In conclusion, please be assured that senior Church leaders who preside over the divinely appointed purposes of the Church receive divine assistance. This guidance comes from the Spirit and sometimes directly from the Savior. Both kinds of spiritual guidance are given. I am grateful to have received such assistance.[27]- Quentin L. Cook

 

 

 

Edited March 27 by mburgess1982

[Calm]

3 hours ago, mburgess1982 said:

Elder Neal L Anderson: 

"We do our best to testify of Jesus Christ. We know He lives. We have experiences and sacred moments so remarkable and unforgettable that we can say with surety that He lives, that He is resurrected, and that He guides our work upon the earth."

"I've often wondered why they don’t just come out and say they’ve personally seen Christ, they always seem to stop just short of saying it, and yet its very much implied

@ 1:00:00
 

 

I think it might become a test of worthiness for way too many. It already has if I understand the followers of John Pontius (and I heard unfortunate things about some who claimed they did as well as many who thought they had somehow failed because they hadn’t).

We have a hard enough time with other things (missions, children, church callings).  If this became the expected standard of confirming one’s worthiness in God’s eyes, the typical endpoint of the mortal part of spiritual growth….ach!

Edited March 27 by Calm

[Notatbm]

4 hours ago, Duncan said:

what do you think about apostles and prophets who said they have seen him? How would you know they are lying?

I think the last guy to publicly say he has seen Jesus was Lorenzo snow. 
 

he is a documented liar under oath in the Temple Lot case. 

so in his case I wouldn’t believe he saw Jesus in person. 
 

the better question to ask is since Lorenzo snows time, how come none (as far as I know) of the Mormon prophets have proclaimed to have seen Jesus in person. They word smith statements to make it seem like they have but fall short of actually saying so.

Jeff holland and Gordon Hinkley both lied in live interviews with reporters about easily provable information. I wouldn’t believe them if the saw Jesus. 
 

im confident none of them have actually seen Jesus. 

Edited March 27 by Notatbm

[Notatbm]

3 hours ago, mburgess1982 said:

I found a few quotes. I think to assume they haven't seen him is based on nothing but opinion. Their testimonies seem to say otherwise. I'm sure there are many more than this, but its what I was able to quickly find

 

As one of those called as special witnesses, I add my testimony to those of fellow Apostles: He lives! He lives with resurrected body. There is no truth or fact of which I am more assured, or know better by personal experience, than the truth of the literal resurrection of our Lord.[1]- Ezra Taft Benson

 

And so on the third day following His burial, He came forth from the tomb alive and showed Himself to many. There were witnesses then who saw Him. There have been many in this dispensation who have seen Him. As one of those special witnesses…I testify to you that He lives. He lives with a resurrected body.[2] - Ezra Taft Benson
 

 ‘He [Elder Brown] said it was not a vision, but the Lord appeared to him, very informal, the same as I was sitting talking to him. The Lord said, ‘You have had some difficult times in your life.’ Uncle Hugh responded, ‘Yes, and your life was more difficult than any of us have had.’ In the conversation Uncle Hugh asked when he would be finished here, and the Lord said, ‘I don’t know and I wouldn’t tell you if I did.’ Then He said, ‘Remain faithful to the end, and everything will be all right.’[3]- Hugh B. Brown

 

Mine is the certain knowledge that Jesus is our divine Savior, Redeemer, and the son of God the Father. I know of his reality by a sure perception so sacred I cannot give utterance to it. I know and testify with an absolute awareness that Joseph Smith restored the keys of the fulness of times and that every President of the Church has held those keys, as does President Gordon B. Hinckley today.[5]- James E. Faust

 

I know that this is the Lord’s work. I know that Jesus Christ lives, and that he is closer to this Church and appears more often in holy places than any of us realize, excepting those to whom he makes personal appearance.[9] - Harold B. Lee

 

Why don't our talks in general conference and local meetings say more about the miracles we have seen? Most of the miracles we experience are not to be shared. Consistent with the teachings of the scriptures, we hold them sacred and share them only when the Spirit prompts us to do so…In bearing testimonies and in our public addresses we rarely mention our most miraculous experiences, and we rarely rely on signs that the gospel is true. We usually just affirm our testimony of the truthfulness of the restored gospel and give few details on how we obtained it. Why is this? Signs _follow_ those that believe. Seeking a miracle to convert someone is improper sign seeking. By the same token, it is usually inappropriate to recite miraculous circumstances to a general audience that includes people with very different levels of spiritual maturity. To a general audience, miracles will be faith-reinforcing for some but an inappropriate sign for others.[12]

Visions do happen. Voices are heard from beyond the veil. I know this. But these experiences are exceptional. And those who have these great and exceptional experiences rarely speak of them publicly because we are instructed not to do so (see D&C 63:64) and because we understand that the channels of revelation will be closed if we show these things before the world.[13] - Dallin H. Oaks

 

[In his journal, Marion G. Romney wrote:] I don't know just how to answer people when they ask the question, "Have you seen the Lord?" I think that the witness that I have and the witness that each of us has, and the details of how it came, are too sacred to tell. I have never told anybody some of the experiences I have had, not even my wife. I know that God lives. I not only know that he lives, but I know him.[23] - Marion G. Romney

 

In conclusion, please be assured that senior Church leaders who preside over the divinely appointed purposes of the Church receive divine assistance. This guidance comes from the Spirit and sometimes directly from the Savior. Both kinds of spiritual guidance are given. I am grateful to have received such assistance.[27]- Quentin L. Cook

 

 

 

So none of them actually state they have seen Jesus in person? Why does that convince you they all have? Why do they not just say they have instead of using evasive language.? . it like yes we can’t talk about it or say we have, but we will lead you to believe we actually have seen Jesus. Seems like they are constructively disobeying whoever is telling them not to talk about it because it is “too spiritual “ or whatever. 

[Duncan]

3 hours ago, Notatbm said:

I think the last guy to publicly say he has seen Jesus was Lorenzo snow. 
 

he is a documented liar under oath in the Temple Lot case. 

so in his case I wouldn’t believe he saw Jesus in person. 
 

the better question to ask is since Lorenzo snows time, how come none (as far as I know) of the Mormon prophets have proclaimed to have seen Jesus in person. They word smith statements to make it seem like they have but fall short of actually saying so.

Jeff holland and Gordon Hinkley both lied in live interviews with reporters about easily provable information. I wouldn’t believe them if the saw Jesus. 
 

im confident none of them have actually seen Jesus. 

Besides the quotations already given to you, as far as prophets are concerned, Joseph F. Smith, Heber J. Grant, David O. McKay, Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson and a host of other apostles and church leaders have all publicly stated that they have seen Christ. 

[The Nehor]

24 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Besides the quotations already given to you, as far as prophets are concerned, Joseph F. Smith, Heber J. Grant, David O. McKay, Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson and a host of other apostles and church leaders have all publicly stated that they have seen Christ. 

I mean, who hasn’t?

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Notatbm said:

so in his case I wouldn’t believe he saw Jesus in person. 

Would you believe anyone who claimed this?

[mburgess1982]

8 hours ago, Notatbm said:

So none of them actually state they have seen Jesus in person? Why does that convince you they all have? Why do they not just say they have instead of using evasive language.? . it like yes we can’t talk about it or say we have, but we will lead you to believe we actually have seen Jesus. Seems like they are constructively disobeying whoever is telling them not to talk about it because it is “too spiritual “ or whatever. 

I think sometimes the spirit speaks stronger than words.  Even if they did all come out and say "We have personally seen Jesus Christ" What would change for you?

[Notatbm]

6 hours ago, Duncan said:

Besides the quotations already given to you, as far as prophets are concerned, Joseph F. Smith, Heber J. Grant, David O. McKay, Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson and a host of other apostles and church leaders have all publicly stated that they have seen Christ. 

Of all these guys you listed only Joseph f smith claimed to have seen Jesus.. many times. He also lied under testimony at the reed smoot hearings. 
 

cfr for statements these other guys have personally seen Jesus. All I could find was the same old feelings stories. Or “I know….” Without saying how they know like for example…. He appeared to me or something like that. Js wasn’t afraid to say it. 

[Notatbm]

1 hour ago, mburgess1982 said:

I think sometimes the spirit speaks stronger than words.  Even if they did all come out and say "We have personally seen Jesus Christ" What would change for you?

It would at least make them speak directly to it in terms of stating it frankly. Right now all we have are statements that just sound like they may have but they don’t just say it. Im not aware that  there is any prohibition from them just saying so except maybe they don’t want to lie. 

[Notatbm]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Would you believe anyone who claimed this?

Not if they are a leader in an organization that has a truth problem. I was taught not to trust people in business or whatever who are not honest. Mormons have lots of teachings about honesty out there so you would figure it would be important to have integrity. 

Why should that change for a religious leader who supports an organization  with known and provable problems with honesty and may have issues with it himself?

[Notatbm]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I mean, who hasn’t?

I have, I just don’t talk about it…. Too sacred

[Duncan]

19 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Of all these guys you listed only Joseph f smith claimed to have seen Jesus.. many times. He also lied under testimony at the reed smoot hearings. 
 

cfr for statements these other guys have personally seen Jesus. All I could find was the same old feelings stories. Or “I know….” Without saying how they know like for example…. He appeared to me or something like that. Js wasn’t afraid to say it. 

your two statements don't make any sense

"only" Joseph F. Smith claimed to have seen Jesus, but how can you say that when you also said that you want me to find these other people's statements, as if you know what they are in order to make your first statement that "only" Joseph F. Smith said he saw Christ-which is in Section 138 by the way. Just because someone lied once doesn't mean we throw absolutely everything they ever said out, that is so balck and white thinking. I'll give you one, from Pres. Kimball. This is from the Grandson of a lady who heard served a mission in 1947 when he related the following

“She told me that because of the caliber of missionaries he was addressing, Elder Kimball felt at liberty to speak more freely than the Brethren generally do about the sacred and solemn interviews involved in calling an apostle and qualifying him to stand as a special witness of the Lord Jesus Christ in all the earth. He told them a story familiar to many of us—of the anxiety and the inadequacy he felt; of the nagging doubt that he had been called, not by revelation, but because he was the grandson of President Heber C. Kimball; and of his flight to the mountains, amid fasting and prayer, to seek a witness from the Lord that the call had come from Him and not from man….: “This [apostle] revealed an additional and dramatic detail about how that witness came. President Kimball . . . saw the Lord Jesus and heard from the mouth of the Savior Himself the soul-cheering affirmation, ‘I have called you to be my witness to the world. Doubt not, but be of good cheer.’”

Sister Evelyn Larsen, Central States Mission, June 1947"

If you refuse to believe anyone's personal witness then why don't you get your own vision of Christ?

[Notatbm]

38 minutes ago, Duncan said:

your two statements don't make any sense

"only" Joseph F. Smith claimed to have seen Jesus, but how can you say that when you also said that you want me to find these other people's statements, as if you know what they are in order to make your first statement that "only" Joseph F. Smith said he saw Christ-which is in Section 138 by the way. Just because someone lied once doesn't mean we throw absolutely everything they ever said out, that is so balck and white thinking. I'll give you one, from Pres. Kimball. This is from the Grandson of a lady who heard served a mission in 1947 when he related the following

“She told me that because of the caliber of missionaries he was addressing, Elder Kimball felt at liberty to speak more freely than the Brethren generally do about the sacred and solemn interviews involved in calling an apostle and qualifying him to stand as a special witness of the Lord Jesus Christ in all the earth. He told them a story familiar to many of us—of the anxiety and the inadequacy he felt; of the nagging doubt that he had been called, not by revelation, but because he was the grandson of President Heber C. Kimball; and of his flight to the mountains, amid fasting and prayer, to seek a witness from the Lord that the call had come from Him and not from man….: “This [apostle] revealed an additional and dramatic detail about how that witness came. President Kimball . . . saw the Lord Jesus and heard from the mouth of the Savior Himself the soul-cheering affirmation, ‘I have called you to be my witness to the world. Doubt not, but be of good cheer.’”

Sister Evelyn Larsen, Central States Mission, June 1947"

If you refuse to believe anyone's personal witness then why don't you get your own vision of Christ?

So the statement you provide is actually heresay. Kimball had all the pulpit time in front of the entire world anyone could ever want yet he still didn’t say it. 

Edited March 27 by Notatbm
Sp

[Duncan]

25 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

So the statement you provide is actually heresay. Kimball had all the pulpit time in front of the entire world anyone could ever want yet he still didn’t say it. 

no, he did mention quite a few times, in his journal and in a conference session in the late 70's- I had assumed you already knew that though

what difference where someone says it? it doesn't invalidate the experience

I'm waiting to hear about your vision of Christ

[bluebell]

18 hours ago, mburgess1982 said:

Elder Neal L Anderson: 

"We do our best to testify of Jesus Christ. We know He lives. We have experiences and sacred moments so remarkable and unforgettable that we can say with surety that He lives, that He is resurrected, and that He guides our work upon the earth."

"I've often wondered why they don’t just come out and say they’ve personally seen Christ, they always seem to stop just short of saying it, and yet its very much implied

@ 1:00:00
 

 

This is just a guess, but I’m thinking that a lot of times it’s because it’s not important and can be a stumbling block for some people.

[SkyRock]

Most anyone who has had the experience finds it too sacred to talk about.  Telling others won't convince the doubters. It is a "pearls before swine" issue.

[Notatbm]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

no, he did mention quite a few times, in his journal and in a conference session in the late 70's- I had assumed you already knew that though

 

Cfr for statements of kimball (from him) that he has seen Jesus in person. 

no I didn’t know,  you were the one who made the claim and I don’t think it is quite true. So far we don’t have a direct statement from kimball himself unless someone wants to cough one up. 

[Duncan]

14 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Cfr for statements of kimball (from him) that he has seen Jesus in person. 

no I didn’t know,  you were the one who made the claim and I don’t think it is quite true. So far we don’t have a direct statement from kimball himself unless someone wants to cough one up. 

read this, about Pres. Kimball sharing his witness of Christ

besides it literally doesn't matter where someone shares something and it certainly doesn't invalidate it any

"Then several years later, in the April 1978 General Conference, President Kimball again adopted the words of another to express his own similar special witness: “ ‘I know that God lives. I know that Jesus Christ lives,’ said John Taylor [George Q. Cannon], my predecessor, ‘for I have seen him.’ I bear this testimony to you brethren in the name of Jesus Christ.”[28] (The use of President Taylor’s name was an error, with President Kimball actually meaning President George Q. Cannon, as he had in the earlier address.) These testimonies support the account of the sister missionary quoted above."

http://www.truthwillprevail.xyz/2021/07/president-spencer-w-kimballs-special.html

Telling the world at General Conference, " I have seen him" how much more open and public can you get?

[Calm]

On 3/27/2026 at 9:45 AM, Notatbm said:

Not if they are a leader in an organization that has a truth problem.

Since you believe the Church has a truth problem according to your posts, why are you demanding quotes that say it explicitly when you will just call them lies anyway?

But that only partially answers my question, so let me restate it.

Is there any circumstance where you would accept someone’s claim they saw Christ and not think it was a lie or a delusion?

There are basically two questions there…

Do you even believe Christ exists or any deity?

If you believe there is a Deity, do you believe they would ever show themselves to mortals?

Edited March 28 by Calm

[Notatbm]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

read this, about Pres. Kimball sharing his witness of Christ

besides it literally doesn't matter where someone shares something and it certainly doesn't invalidate it any

"Then several years later, in the April 1978 General Conference, President Kimball again adopted the words of another to express his own similar special witness: “ ‘I know that God lives. I know that Jesus Christ lives,’ said John Taylor [George Q. Cannon], my predecessor, ‘for I have seen him.’ I bear this testimony to you brethren in the name of Jesus Christ.”[28] (The use of President Taylor’s name was an error, with President Kimball actually meaning President George Q. Cannon, as he had in the earlier address.) These testimonies support the account of the sister missionary quoted above."

http://www.truthwillprevail.xyz/2021/07/president-spencer-w-kimballs-special.html

Telling the world at General Conference, " I have seen him" how much more open and public can you get?

I’m not seeing anywhere where swk stated HE saw Jesus. He is stating what George q cannon said. 
 

im not sure im ready to believe a guy who also taught in conference that Navajos turn white when they become righteous.  Anyone who talks like that is clearly a nutjob. 

Edited March 27 by Notatbm

[Notatbm]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Since you believe the Church has a truth problem according to your posts, why are you demanding quotes that say it explicitly when you will just call them lies anyway?

But that only partially answers my question, so let me restate it.

Is there any circumstance where you would accept someone’s claim they saw Christ and not think it was a lie or a delusion?

There are basically two questions there…

Do you even believe Christ exist or any deity?

If you believe there is a Deity, do you believe they would ever show themselves to mortals?

Well I’m getting people stating all kinds of prophets and apostles since Lorenzo snow have been saying they have actually seen Jesus. So far we have two heresay accounts and the rest are the standard “ I know Jesus lives.” None so far have straight up said they saw Jesus in person nor have I ever heard of or seen prophet stating such. 
 

As for accepting a claim?? I’m far more open to it if they just say they have as opposed to making a huge word salad statement dancing around actually making such a statement. The way they do this is just manipulation and some people fall for that kind of talk. Usually when people dance around with wordy explanations without just being forthright they are just lying. Sounds just like a suspect in an interrogation desperately trying to sell an alibi to an fbi agent. 

Edited March 27 by Notatbm
Typo