The "Angel" of Doctrine and Covenants 84:28

[ZealouslyStriving]

"For he was baptized while he was yet in his childhood, and was ordained by the angel of God at the time he was eight days old unto this power, to overthrow the kingdom of the Jews, and to make straight the way of the Lord before the face of his people, to prepare them for the coming of the Lord, in whose hand is given all power."

As we studied Doctrine and Covenants 84 today, verse 28 struck me in a different way because of recent videos I've been watching featuring David Butler, Jonah Barnes and others that speak of Temple Priests being the 'angels' referred to in some Biblical texts.

So, I propose that the "angel" that ordained John the Baptist to his mission at 8 days old was none other than his own father Zechariah. Luke 1:59, 76-79:

"And it came to pass, that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child; and they called him Zacharias, after the name of his father...

And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, 

Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace."

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[telnetd]

5 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

"For he was baptized while he was yet in his childhood, and was ordained by the angel of God at the time he was eight days old unto this power, to overthrow the kingdom of the Jews, and to make straight the way of the Lord before the face of his people, to prepare them for the coming of the Lord, in whose hand is given all power."

As we studied Doctrine and Covenants 84 today, verse 28 struck me in a different way because of recent videos I've been watching featuring David Butler, Jonah Barnes and others that speak of Temple Priests being the 'angels' referred to in some Biblical texts.

So, I propose that the "angel" that ordained John the Baptist to his mission at 8 days old was none other than his own father Zechariah. Luke 1:59, 76-79:

Thoughts?

John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born (Luke 1:15).
If he was ordained by his father, there would be no need of mentioning an unnamed
angel.

He was not baptized in his childhood like the Doctrine and Covenants says for John 
said he needed to be baptized by Jesus instead of him baptizing Christ.

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John 
forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?"
(Matthew 3:13-14).

[ZealouslyStriving]

2 hours ago, telnetd said:

John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born (Luke 1:15).
If he was ordained by his father, there would be no need of mentioning an unnamed
angel.

He was not baptized in his childhood like the Doctrine and Covenants says for John 
said he needed to be baptized by Jesus instead of him baptizing Christ.

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John 
forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?"
(Matthew 3:13-14).

Now that the non-believer's opinion is out of the way...

Any others?

[Calm]

Not my area of speciality or even familiarity, but I see it as aligning with LDS doctrine where we typically define angels as messengers of God, who can even be mortal humans at times.

Though I would say most instances we assume it’s a resurrected person because of Moroni and others.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/angels?lang=eng

Here’s a comment by a Saint thinking along the same lines with references.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/371293479631182/posts/8989837394443371/

Edited August 4, 2025 by Calm

[OGHoosier]

21 hours ago, telnetd said:

He was not baptized in his childhood like the Doctrine and Covenants says for John 
said he needed to be baptized by Jesus instead of him baptizing Christ.

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John 
forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?"
(Matthew 3:13-14).

John the Baptist himself differentiates between the baptism of water, which he gives to Jesus, and the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost which Jesus can give but he could not. See Matthew 3:11 and John 1:33. 

Furthermore, Christ's own reported usage of "baptized" is too broad to support this criticism. See, for instance, Luke 12:50, where Christ uses the term "baptism" to describe the ordeal of the Atonement, or the baptism of fire referred to by the Savior in Acts 1:5.

Edited August 5, 2025 by OGHoosier

[telnetd]

On 8/5/2025 at 10:34 AM, OGHoosier said:

John the Baptist himself differentiates between the baptism of water, which he gives to Jesus, and the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost which Jesus can give but he could not. See Matthew 3:11 and John 1:33. 

Furthermore, Christ's own reported usage of "baptized" is too broad to support this criticism. See, for instance, Luke 12:50, where Christ uses the term "baptism" to describe the ordeal of the Atonement, or the baptism of fire referred to by the Savior in Acts 1:5.

How was John baptized in his childhood as Doctrine and Covenants 84:28 says?

[CV75]

On 8/4/2025 at 7:34 AM, ZealouslyStriving said:

"For he was baptized while he was yet in his childhood, and was ordained by the angel of God at the time he was eight days old unto this power, to overthrow the kingdom of the Jews, and to make straight the way of the Lord before the face of his people, to prepare them for the coming of the Lord, in whose hand is given all power."

As we studied Doctrine and Covenants 84 today, verse 28 struck me in a different way because of recent videos I've been watching featuring David Butler, Jonah Barnes and others that speak of Temple Priests being the 'angels' referred to in some Biblical texts.

So, I propose that the "angel" that ordained John the Baptist to his mission at 8 days old was none other than his own father Zechariah. Luke 1:59, 76-79:

"And it came to pass, that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child; and they called him Zacharias, after the name of his father...

And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, 

Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace."

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

JST Exodus 3:2 substitutes presence for "angel" of the Lord in that phrase. This might not make sense for John's situation, but it did for Moses' and he was translated. Perhaps Moses or another translated prophet was John's "angel of the Lord" -- but it would be nice if it was his father, given his spiritual communications with God.

[OGHoosier]

2 hours ago, telnetd said:

How was John baptized in his childhood as Doctrine and Covenants 84:28 says?

There's no conflict between John the Baptist being baptized as a child and needing to be baptized by Jesus if you acknowledge that John believed in the two baptisms, the baptism of water and the baptism of fire. Which he clearly did according to Matthew 3:11 and John 1:33. 

[telnetd]

On 8/6/2025 at 1:54 PM, OGHoosier said:

There's no conflict between John the Baptist being baptized as a child and needing to be baptized by Jesus if you acknowledge that John believed in the two baptisms, the baptism of water and the baptism of fire. Which he clearly did according to Matthew 3:11 and John 1:33. 

Who baptized John as a child?

[ZealouslyStriving]

20 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Who baptized John as a child?

Hasn't been revealed yet - but I'm guessing his father.

[ZealouslyStriving]

On 8/6/2025 at 10:54 AM, OGHoosier said:

There's no conflict between John the Baptist being baptized as a child and needing to be baptized by Jesus if you acknowledge that John believed in the two baptisms, the baptism of water and the baptism of fire. Which he clearly did according to Matthew 3:11 and John 1:33. 

Or you believe in rebaptism as practiced in the early restored Church.

[Clear]

On 8/4/2025 at 5:34 AM, ZealouslyStriving said:

I propose that the "angel" that ordained John the Baptist to his mission at 8 days old was none other than his own father Zechariah. Luke 1:59, 76-79:

αγγελοσ/angel (greek) and מַלְאָךְ/mal'ak (hebrew) both simply mean "messenger"

When I first read the Book of Mormon, especially now as I age, I wish we had the original text since much of it has hebraisms that would have had different and deeper meanings than the english in the same way the Greek New Testament is quite different than the english versions.

For example, the word "Angel" simply means "messenger" whether the original word is in greek (angelos) or hebrew (malach). 

 

This means that whenever we encounter the word "angel" in either the Old or New Testament text, it is ONLY the context that can indicate whether one is speaking of an angelic messenger or simply a mortal messenger (such as would be sent out from a king with a message to another person).   For example, the last book in the Old Testament, Malachi, means "my messenger".  Thus one cannot tell if Malachi is the writers name or simply a moniker.

[InCognitus]

2 hours ago, Clear said:

αγγελοσ/angel (greek) and מַלְאָךְ/mal'ak (hebrew) both simply mean "messenger"

When I first read the Book of Mormon, especially now as I age, I wish we had the original text since much of it has hebraisms that would have had different and deeper meanings than the english in the same way the Greek New Testament is quite different than the english versions.

For example, the word "Angel" simply means "messenger" whether the original word is in greek (angelos) or hebrew (malach). 

 

This means that whenever we encounter the word "angel" in either the Old or New Testament text, it is ONLY the context that can indicate whether one is speaking of an angelic messenger or simply a mortal messenger (such as would be sent out from a king with a message to another person).   For example, the last book in the Old Testament, Malachi, means "my messenger".  Thus one cannot tell if Malachi is the writers name or simply a moniker.

Another "feature" of this board is that we can't give you upvotes until you reach 25 posts, or otherwise I'd upvote this post.

Welcome, and I hope you remain active on the board.

[Clear]

I mentioned "malachi" as a moniker but did not clarify that Mal'ak means messenger and mal'aki means "my Messenger" in hebrew just as Ab ("av") means "father" and abi (avi) means "my father". 

Thus, it is difficult to tell if the NAME is "malachi" or if it is simply a moniker for "my servant"...

[teddyaware]

On 8/4/2025 at 12:50 PM, telnetd said:

John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born (Luke 1:15).
If he was ordained by his father, there would be no need of mentioning an unnamed
angel.

He was not baptized in his childhood like the Doctrine and Covenants says for John 
said he needed to be baptized by Jesus instead of him baptizing Christ.

"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John 
forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?"
(Matthew 3:13-14).

You’re not thinking things through. Where in the Bible does it say that John the Baptist was ever baptized by Jesus, or that he was baptized by anyone else for that matter. Does it make sense to you that John the Baptist would be baptizing multitudes for the remission on their sins while he himself had never been baptized for a remission of his sins? It’s perfectly reasonable to believe that John the Baptist needed to be baptized for his own sins before he would have had the right to baptize anyone else for their own sins. The only individuals who had the power and right to baptize others in the New Testament Church of Christ were baptized members of the church.

Finally, John’s protestation was simply the way he expressed his concern that he wasn’t worthy enough to baptize the Son of God. But as it turns out he was worthy enough because he did indeed baptize Jesus..

Edited September 24, 2025 by teddyaware

[telnetd]

On 9/24/2025 at 2:09 AM, teddyaware said:

You’re not thinking things through. Where in the Bible does it say that John the Baptist was ever baptized by Jesus, or that he was baptized by anyone else for that matter. Does it make sense to you that John the Baptist would be baptizing multitudes for the remission on their sins while he himself had never been baptized for a remission of his sins? It’s perfectly reasonable to believe that John the Baptist needed to be baptized for his own sins before he would have had the right to baptize anyone else for their own sins. The only individuals who had the power and right to baptize others in the New Testament Church of Christ were baptized members of the church.

Finally, John’s protestation was simply the way he expressed his concern that he wasn’t worthy enough to baptize the Son of God. But as it turns out he was worthy enough because he did indeed baptize Jesus..

Doctrine and Covenants says John was baptized while yet in his childhood.