Notatbm

Cachet (pronounced /kæˈʃeɪ/) is a noun that generally refers to a mark or quality of distinction, prestige, or an official seal of approval. It implies an aura of high status or exclusivity that makes something or someone highly respected and admired.

No worries.. grew up in 80s. Pressure on all the guys was significant and the girls were taught buyer beware if you don’t marry an rm. Just a couple years ago a stake pres member got on video at a tri stake conference and point blank told the young men they don’t have a choice about mission service. Also Kevin Pearson is also on tape essentially saying the same thing.. esp with Pearson this has to be coming from salt lake so the pressure and shaming is still coming from church leaders. Maybe it’s just Utah, Idaho and Az. I dunno. you will like this one… in one of our family wards we had a farewell of a young man from a big time Mormon family. He gets up to give his talk (he went first ) and he just got to to podium and then turned around and pointed at his parents who were both going to speak as well. He said (paraphrased) I don’t want to go, they are making me and I don’t have a choice. See y’all in two years. He then just sat down and the bishop closed the meeting. Stake presidency was on the stand as well. People were like oh yea they aren’t gonna let him go now with that terrible attitude… they were basically trashing the kid. No one thought it odd to put a full court press on a kid to go on a mission. So whatever it takes. . well he went the kid went and served two years and when he got home he left the church. Family thought they were such hard asses making him go. They bragged on it a bit. He got the last laugh. This was about 30 years ago so yea things are different I guess. hopefully they let kids go do peace corps stuff, or school or whatever. Let them do what they want. Missions are such a waste anymore.

Could you elaborate on what you mean here? Thanks, -Smac Elaborate on which part?

What is it with Mortar guys always having shortages? Beating each other up off duty?? Ha. I was 11B and the points were always 99Never.. I got lucky when I boarded for E5 Desert shield was underway (I was overseas elsewhere) so the army was short like 10K E5s. I got promoted in secondary zone. We were so short people as everyone PCSing got sent straight back to the 82nd to go be trench clearing fodder or so went the theory. We didnt get any new privates till the ground war was over and Benning sent them all to our BN and others. We were down to 15 person platoons from original strength of over 40. I think our BN dwindled from 600 pax to less than 300. I think if we combined we could only deploy two full strength companies and HHC mortar/med/en/recon/ and 90mmRCL teams. Prop blast details from a civilian observer: https://www.danielsanthropology.com/papers/82nd/82ndairborneinitiations.html your story is pretty funny btw...Id have ripped that thing off too. 13F surprisingly (at least last I recall) are assigned to their respective Arty BAttery and only go out with the inf for training/deployment. I was in two seperate ABN INF BNs and we had organic 13F with us and also AF TACP. No one knew their jobs so I dotn know how they got along without any mentorship. They were really squared away so perhaps that is how they got selected to go there.

I was at benning. In 13 weeks I was able to go twice. The routine was the same except we actually had lds services. There were like five of us the first time… maybe ten the second. That was the service for our bct brigade so about ten trainees out of guess 3000 or so??

“But as he prays about serving a mission, he should also remember that by receiving the priesthood, he has already accepted the sacred responsibility to “warn, expound, exhort, and teach, and invite all to come unto Christ” (D&C 20:59), including by serving as a full-time missionary. If young men are not able to serve because of poor health or a disability, they are honorably excused.” https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2012/01/to-the-point/why-is-there-so-much-pressure-on-young-men-to-go-on-a-mission-isnt-it-a-personal-decision?lang=eng Looks like poor health or disability is the ONLY accepted reason to not serve a full time mission. that tells me all other reasons to not serve a mission are by default “dishonorable.” You should remember these old dudes were not required or encouraged to go because we had a war going on. After what late ‘70s it became a commandment of sorts for all young men to serve a mission. Oaks et al are exempted.

I bet telling the board you are MOH material because you were Mormon would have resulted in a dq and the most brutal smoke session of your life. I suppose the kind of infantry unit you were in vs the kind I was in made it possible for you to even think you could say such a thing. That would never ever cross my mind to place myself in the same category as an MOH recipient. And don’t know about you but I’ve been in combat a few times and as bad as it was I can’t imagine it being that bad and I took a trip on a litter bird to the states over my last combat encounter. So did they promote you? Even though you are Mormon? I’ve never heard of such a thing being said in a promotion board but I believe it. Like I said Mormons have zero cachet in the army. The units I was in had prop blast for officers. Legalized hazing with tons of pt and alcohol. I understand they removed the alcohol component years ago over a death but anyway… yea it’s a bit uncomfy for Mormons there. i never really ran into a problem after infantry school because I sanitized my tags at ranger joes on Bragg blvd… they said NO PREF or some such thing till i went to my commissioning source several years later.

Ur prob right. Didn’t help them from claiming Mormons aren’t Christian’s. They can just say their pastor told them so. Defer to leaders just like many Mormons do.

Uhhh yea. Dont be a idiot. It is a figure of speech. Anyway in the name of the church...."day" is supposed to be a little d not a big D. To some it is a huge deal. Oddly enough the church uses both on its own website.

oh boy what a relief the list was fixed....now we can fix bayonets and get them to fix the big "D" problem. I swear does anyone care about the style guide??

So these are all people who chose to ditch a mission and go military? Hmm ok good for them and I'm glad they are celebrated I suppose. I'm frankly suprised a stake would honor people who chose to disobey the lord and shirk their priesthood duty. Yea I don't see it happening here but hey you never know.

ok... like i said its a guess. Thanks for clearing that up

Yea I have seen that before too. Usually it was people doing simultaneous service ie military, leave of absence, mission, come back to military usually reservists and guard, not active duty. In fact that is all of the cases I have seen before. Typically it is where the guy had to wait till he was 19 to serve a mission so went to boot camp while he was 18. With the age change I bet that activity has tapered off quite a bit. Not the same as blowing off a mission completely. I'm in Gilbert az and have never seen that here other than missionary plaques. In fact in the nearly ten years I have been in this ward (im in the stake canter when i did attend) we have had zero enlistees into the military other than one girl who is a lesbian...thats what her parent who is a friend of ours said. Anyway not here to debate whether the church approves of ditching a mission or not. We all know the church absolutely does not approve. Is the stake pres where you are at smart for allowing them to put pictures up of military members who refuse to serve a mission?? Sure I suppose. Not sure what good it does if the military member isnt around to see it, but at least they probably know it is there and that we don't completely hate you for being a disobedient soul. Of course they can also go on a mission and have like what?? a 40-50% chance of leaving the church anyway... Yea the stake im in now, others I have been in and the one I grew up in def would never do that. In my family wards I was in while on active duty they didn't do that. Maybe with new stake pres they would. I suppose we'd have to get kids to join up first so we can find out. Prob have to wait a while around here for that.

Im glad for both you and your son and wish more were like that. Of course if more were....there would be less kids going on missions knowing they are not going to get a bashing from their family. There are many out there who cannot say the same. I had the opportunity to learn of many of their stories while serving. While there are not a ton of Mormons who join up before/instead of going on a mission; of those who do, many experience shunning and disappointment from their family and church leaders. My story is not unique. These parents and Bishops are out there...I had both and I know many others who did as well. Do you remember the kid who got dumped off in Zions natl park over deciding overnight he wasnt going on a mission?? Parents abandoned him there. My parents would have dont the same thing and there are other mormons out there who will defend that kind of behavior. https://www.ldsliving.com/our-take-on-the-family-leaving-their-son-at-bryce-canyon-controversy-why-we-need-to-act-mormon-even-online/s/85950 I didn't say they wouldn't want support- I said there are JW in the military. I'd think if they wanted some kind of support, they would ask. In my experience, unless you ask no one is going to come around ministering to you.

My take on this is that the various religions were grouped as “Christian“ since most any Christian denominated chaplain can minister to those particular religions, such as communion, sacrament, blessings, baptism etc. If one looks at the last four or five religions on the list, each one of them are of the persuasion that allows no ministers from outside their faith to participate in or officiate over ordinances in their respective religion. In the case of Mormons, they do not recognize any faith’s communion, sacraments, blessings, baptisms, etc. so why would a chaplain from another faith be assigned to minister to any Mormon for any religious purpose? That said my guess is that the last four or five religions on that list will have their own chaplains assigned to them since they don’t recognize anybody else as having any kind of authority. We will see what actually happens, but that is my hypothesis right now. it appears to me to be a streamlined tool to determine where to allocate different chaplains according to the overall numbers of particular members on each base or installation to make sure each denomination has its needs met. For example, a base having members of any or all of the listed “Christian” religions can be assigned any “Christian” chaplain. At this time, most military installations do not have any LDS chaplains. The members go to local family awards off the base. This being the case, it has taken demand away from the chaplain core of the military for LDS chaplains because we don’t recognize any of these chaplains unless they’re are Mormon. Since Mormons are not beating down the door of the chaplains offices, it would appear lds chaplains are not needed so we’ve kind of created this problem ourselves.

Did the parents get up in fast testimony meeting and say how proud they are that their kiddo is disobeying the Lord? If not, then are they really proud? I wish I grew up wherever you are or were at … ok maybe not if it’s Utah but not going on a mission here was and remains a social death sentence. I can’t name a single family in my ward who would openly admit they are proud their kid didn’t go on a mission.

I joined about 40 yrs ago.. right in the middle of the new mission push started by kimball in 1978 ish?? Anyway our stake had over 40 -50 ish missionaries out and it was a literal competition between wards to have the most missionaries out. My father was the stake pres and I went in the military. Salt lake even got involved in the fray because parents here complained that the Sp kid didn’t have to go but they have to empty their savings so their own kid can go to Brazil or wherever. It was a freaking disaster of epic proportions.I can go on but I know you don’t believe me. my parents never forgave me for the humiliation of having an apostate kid… yep I was an apostate for not going on a mission. My military service was not looked upon as honorable simply for the fact I didn’t go on a mission first. Even the church maintains the policy today that I was not honorable excused from missionary service. That goes for anyone who doesn’t go on a mission unless the brethren “honorably excused” them. That is church policy. believe it or not there are some serious psycho Mormon parents out there. I have a bunch in my ward last time I went. They just keep the screaming and yelling at home and act all TBM at church. No kid is gonna mess up the perfect Mormon family track record of eagles and missions. You know those people are out there. the eagles thing dates me, but that was all the rage. No eagle, no mission = faithless loser not worth marrying your older members who didn’t go on missions?? What is older? Ww2, Korea, Vietnam?? Well the church didn’t expect them to serve missions. It is different now. Missions are mandatory

There are some JW in the military. They are just the JW version of an exmo. A JW getting shunned by their church is orders of magnitude worse than getting shunned by Mormons. JW are ruthless. it’s kinda like being a Mormon, blowing off a mission and joining the army to kill people and break things. Definitely not an honorable excusal from missionary service, your parents are all renting their garments and gnashing their teeth over it and therefore -bad mormon

“And although 54% of Mormons feel positively toward evangelical Christians, the feelings are not reciprocal: 15% of born-again or evangelical Protestants feel positively toward Mormons, compared with 27% who express negative views.” https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2023/03/PF_2023.03.15_religion-favorability_REPORT.pdf I guess PEW saw this one coming.

Definitely a peculiar people. Also within the DOD one will find high ranking chaplains who have zero use for Mormons. They are probably partially responsible for how this list was constructed.

I agree Mormons believe they are Christian’s..and I believe they are. Problem is that one has to convince others that Mormons are Christian. Mormon leaders are on record throughout church history being dishonest so why should anyone believe what they say… esp when access to the temple is restricted.. who the heck really knows what goes on in there lol?

We need to remember where the majority of us military personnel come from: “Where Service Members Enlist From While the military draws recruits from all 50 states, the American Southdisproportionately supplies the most service members. The top states producing the highest volume of new recruits (often making up over 40% of all enlistments annually) are: [1, 2, 3, 4] Texas California Florida Georgia New York [1] However, on a per capita basis (adjusting for state population sizes), states with deeply rooted military cultures and localized economies send the highest proportion of their populations to serve. These include South Carolina, Hawaii, Alaska, and Georgia. [1, 2]” we also should remember that Utah has an enlistment rate that is near dead last in terms of people joining the military as enlisted soldiers. Officers in the military also originate from mostly the same states as the enlisted. what that tells us is it ain’t Mormons who are serving in and running the us military… participating? Sure there’s about 36k Mormons combined in all branches of the us military, but again. It is run by those who hail from those few states mentioned above. Many of these people have a very dim view on Mormons. Some of them may even be from Fairview Texas… lol there are about 280 us military members from Fairview fyi. I bet there are not more than two from there who are Mormon. I wonder what those folks from Fairview think of Mormons??

This guy is Staff Sergeant which means he is an enlisted soldier with anywhere from 5 to 15 yrs service. It also means he is regularly told to have his guys pick up trash or clean the barracks or stand around all day in line waiting their turn to do their rifle qualification shoot. It also means he has absolutely no idea and is just guessing. He is very near the bottom of the totem pole. A full bird colonel or a CSM or above MIGHT know what’s going on but even then- I doubt it. Nor will they care. For context of his rank in relation to a normal size infantry company (~120) there would be approx 20-25 staff sergeants give or take. That’s out of 120-160 soldiers. The commander of such a unit is usually a captain who is about 28-30 yrs old and captains are nobody’s in the army as well. A colonel is where the real power begins. Thats a 40+ year old officer with ~ 22-30 yrs service and in charge of up to 5k troops. could he be right? Sure but again no because he has inside info.. no one with any rank is telling him anything unless he is in violation of relationship rules with senior officials. If he was a 25 year old blonde attractive female I’d be more inclined to believe. anyway yea he’s just making stuff up. Kinda like a ward bishop claiming to know what happened at last weeks Q12 meetings

Not that I know anything but my 22 yrs experience in combat roles in the army taught me the Mormon church has less than zero cachet in the military. No one is gonna care if they are labeled as Christian’s or not. they won’t be caught dead at the grog bowl, but Jesus would. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8skqDSv/

I didnt ask for a statement proving executions. I asked for one where the church leadership said to not take the penalties seriously... dont make up stuff I didnt say. You really enjoy lying about what I say here. You do it all the time. You mister are a liar yourself. As for romney making that covenant with the throat slitting penalty?? He sure did and Holland eventually said he did.