Calm

That isn’t logical. There can always be mystery if there is something that is never intended to be revealed in this life. You will never know what’s in a room even if you have opened every door in a house if that room was not built with a door.

I believe it’s a Jewish prohibition as well, though not as encompassing as I thought. https://aish.com/destroying-statues-and-judaisms-prohibition-of-making-graven-images/

I don’t see it that way as I agree with him (at least as written here). But I suspect I have a different view of what the Gift of the Holy Ghost means than you possibly understand it to mean for us. For me, it is one vehicle to facilitate our relationship with the Spirit. It is only available in the here and now through receiving the specific authorized ordinance performed by an authorized priesthood holder, where authority and priesthood is defined by LDS standards. I don’t equate it, for example, with what happened to John as described in Luke 1:15 or the Pentecost.*** https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 1%3A15&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 2&version=NIV However, there are many, many other vehicles out there to facilitate our relationship with the Spirit and I suspect some are not available to LDS (I think a monastic life is one, living as full time clergy with no other career besides serving God’s children in a devotional way is another). I believe doing volunteer work, prayer, scripture reading, caregiving, study of faiths, meditation, sacraments of many faiths, walking in nature and many more all can function as vehicles. The most important factor imo (and there may be LDS who think otherwise, but I think they are wrong and I know other Saints who agree with me) is the individual, not the vehicle…how open they are to experiencing the Spirit; how strong of a drive they possess to seek out God; how willing they are to be humble enough to accept what they hear, learn, or feel; how physically or emotionally they are prepared for the experience; or if they then use such knowledge to grow closer to God or help his children. I am sure I could come up with more variables that affect our experience, ones we have control over and others we don’t. To say another does not have the Gift of the Holy Ghost in my head isn’t any more offensive than saying someone is not LDS. Either they haven’t had the opportunity to receive either membership or the Gift or for what is likely a very reasonable reason, they have chosen not to take the opportunity. Neither of those means to me they are rejecting God or his Spirit in any way. Nor does either tell me how strong their relationships with God or the Spirit are. Analogy alert… Your wife chooses not to become a member of this message board to communicate with you through this medium. No one in their right mind would assume she has therefore rejected a relationship with you or believe that somehow I have a better relationship with you because I can communicate with you through posts here while she cannot. There are many vehicles of communication these days, email, message apps for texting, phones, face time, snail mail, DVD recordings or audio recordings, painting or sculpture for a more abstract form, body language, sign language, touching, and then face to face verbal communication. I have probably missed some. Each of these might be superior than the others for a specific purpose, but none of them tell us how well someone communicates or understands us and the choice of medium in no way tells us how deep or shallow that relationship is. There are people on this message board I know better and care more about than the neighbors across the street. I probably know some better here than I know a certain close in blood relative who separated from the family decades ago. I can’t think of a non superficial conversation I have had with them that I walked away from feeling good about since they were a teen. One could use a message board like this or email or even snail mail to open up with someone in a very deep and intimate way while barely talking to someone they see across the office every work day of their life. We make all sorts of assumptions about relationships based on the how a relationship occurs, but they may have little to do with reality. I don’t know if that member who told your wife that was judging her relationship as inherently less than any active member of the LDS faith or if to him it was a simple observation of her not experiencing one form of encountering the Spirit…a form that many members don’t make much use of, btw, I would suspect, but hope I am wrong. The Gift is certainly a blessing from God and I think it would be great if everyone had access to it, but it doesn’t appear to be high on God’s priorities in mortality given how few of his children he has ensured they have that opportunity. I believe the Light of Christ is another vehicle for a relationship with God and the Spirit and God made sure to give that to each of us. Those who make full use of that gift of the Spirit are going to have much deeper and stronger relationships with God than someone who has received the Gift of the Holy Ghost, but ignores any promptings of the Spirit. From your comments, it sounds like your wife is a deeply spiritual woman, someone any LDS would do well to learn from. She is not less spiritual or less valuable in that way just because she never partook of that specific ordinance. BTW, I am not telling you or your wife not to be concerned with what that LDS member said. I wasn’t there, you are likely to have a much better impression from tone, facial expression and other body language as well as their past behavior how he meant it. I am just sharing why some of us might agree with the words that he said. ***The dedication of the Kirtland Temple was described as a Pentecost, but those experiencing this would have already received the ordinance of the Gift of the Holy Ghost, so this must have been something different to that Gift. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-109-prayer-of-dedication-for-the-kirtland-temple?lang=eng

Do you find all statutes an issue, just religious ones, or just ones outside or inside worship areas. What do you think of the Christus or the Angel Moroni statues on temples? (Apparently the sculptor intended them to be Gabriel, thus the horn, but then an apostle suggested Moroni (think it was Marinner Merrill as I just looked this up yesterday as we drove by Provo’s temple) and that’s what stuck. I never understood the horn before, book was obvious.

I sense sequels coming….

Most do not accept the Nicene Creed or the Apostle’s Creed? Do you not define “Confessions of Faith” as creeds? I don’t or I would have to define the Articles of Faith as a creed, I think***, but I remember one Protestant I discussed this with did view their church’s confession as their creed as well as saying they accepted the Nicene Creed. Can’t remember their view on the Apostles’ Creed, but I remember discussions where declared Protestants did state they accepted both. (Perhaps what you mean is it is not a requirement?) How would you define “creed”? As I understand it, it’s a formal statement of essential beliefs. ***Some do see the AofF as a creed or creedish, so imo LDS need to get over our inclination to be pejorative about creeds in general and be more precise about why the Lord condemned creeds in the First Vision as reported by JS. https://rsc.byu.edu/literature-belief/confessing-belief-thoughts-language-articles-faith https://rsc.byu.edu/prelude-restoration/all-their-creeds-were-abomination

I’d vote for you as our next apostle.

Yes, I have needed to make a checklist for everything I do daily that must be done because memories and anticipation both create the belief I have taken my meds, etc when I haven’t or in tracking I get convinced that I have exercised, tidied a room, etc more than I actually have. I used to be really good with my lists, but now I forget to check them.

I love you I hope you know. (For those who think this is weird, we have known each other a long time and every now and then he says something that reminds me how great it’s been. And I need to let him know that.)

Indiana is a place name meaning Land of the Indians according to google. Recognizing that Native Americans originally lived there is different imo than calling people Indians who are not. One is recognition of a past, the other appropriation of identity. Add to that the racist caricature that got paired with the baseball name, historically it was insulting. “Indiana” as far as I know never got couple with racist imagery, etc. It would be odd for a baseball team that had no association with the RCC to call themselves the Popes just because they were centered in Rome, Georgia. If the mascot was also something one might find in an anticatholic screed and this gets put on all sorts of merchandise as well as team uniforms, advertising, etc, wouldn’t many actual Catholics get offended by that? I know I would be annoyed if Utah or someplace else had a team called “the Mormons” and used a ridiculous looking missionary as its mascot.

It should be pretty obvious why they are different. For one thing, people are not completely removing clothing in restrooms and they are in changing rooms. Plus there is a difference in how space is divided for privacy…or the lack of it. Women’s restrooms all have stalls with doors on them. Women are allowed full privacy in terms of exposure if staying within current laws. Stalls are also not curtained off where a breeze from a door being opened or just a person walking by could result in an unexpected opening, but rigid metal frames or even actual walls with a regular door. Even in the men’s, no one without a working penis will be using urinals, so biological men won’t be force to unexpectedly see female genitalia on someone who presents as a man, but is biologically female and lacks bottom surgery. I assume their stalls have doors as well. Anyone who is exposing themselves for a purpose other than urine into a urinal is violating current laws, are they not? And it’s pretty obvious the argument ‘I had to show my lady parts!’ is nonsense when the only legal purpose for exposing oneself in the nonstall area of a men’s restroom is to use a urinal….unless there is something going on in men’s restrooms I am not aware of. Changing rooms are often open concept, where partial or full nudity is a common occurrence, thereby requiring a less inclusive rule to avoid seeing unexpected genitalia.

Nah, it’s too crowded brains. No room for the new stuff. 😛 Maybe “reminiscence bump”? I never heard of that before, but that came up in a search for ‘remember events from youth vividly, forget what I ate or wore or read recently’

I wrote to FAIR, so hopefully something else will pop up. I also appealed to Chat as much as I hate to ask it about books, seems a betrayal of humanity to do so, lol, and as expected it pulled up Ostler’s book, specifically Vol 2, Chapter 12. It also suggested Andrew Skinner. Then it mentions the 1916 First Presidency’s “The Father and the Son”. I expect you are aware of that already, but if not… https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2002/04/the-father-and-the-son?

David would be the best source for such that I know. We just don’t do theology that much. Also I have been out of tracking the new stuff for a while due to health. I always bought my books at the yearly FAIR conference. It’s much easier to avoid getting seduced when I can’t see or touch them. My ability to concentrate and remember is just very low right now, so not reading much of the few books I have bought. Being reminded my brain is mostly offline these days is depressing, so I don’t even window shop books like I used to. (Got a new GP who is trying to figure out why I get some weird test results, so who knows, maybe that will change a little and my books shelves will start expanding again.) So I am not even aware if there is stuff since 5, 7 years ago unless someone brings it up here or on the FAIR list where we answer questions. Talking about FAIR reminds me I forgot to ask there for suggestions (anyone else ‘remember’ their thoughts on what they are going to do as actually doing it?, I think I visual too well and it ends up looking like a memory rather than anticipation).

Also: https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/113354-scotus-decision-ban-on-talk-conversion-therapy-is-unconstitutional/page/14/#findComment-1210274436 https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/113354-scotus-decision-ban-on-talk-conversion-therapy-is-unconstitutional/page/14/#findComment-1210274474 I am going to stop now, my estimate is a quarter to a third of analytics’ posts that I read through again included explicit comments while some others it’s implied imo.

He has posted a number of pictures of trans men and commented on how well that’s going to go over with women and girls when these trans men are forced to use female only restrooms (or none at all if they are the only ones available). That repeated observation included comments about women’s reactions…which became my primary focus. For example: https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/113354-scotus-decision-ban-on-talk-conversion-therapy-is-unconstitutional/page/11/#findComment-1210274247 This one’s purpose is solely to point out women and girls might not want trans men who present as men in their space: https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/113354-scotus-decision-ban-on-talk-conversion-therapy-is-unconstitutional/page/12/#findComment-1210274294

Do you mean Mumbai? If so, then I am smiling as I too have moments where I become aware of novelties to me that have actually existed for 30 years or longer. Mumbai became the official name in 1995 according to wiki. So my guess is it was a bunch of fuddy duddies who changed it to be more consistent with a local version rather than the colonial name.

Except what you said was there wasn’t commentary on the impact of women and girls…but there was. Even if you disagreed it was an accurate assessment, it was still present. So it looks pretty much like “not listening” to me when you claimed discussion on impact on females was missing or “precious little”.

That is the hardest part of my health issues for me.

Are you referring to this ongoing discussion here?

Here’s two to get you started. Pretty easy to find, though the science is developing still of course…they need more and larger studies that control for various variables, imo, but it’s something that shouldn’t be dismissed outright. MRI research studies are expensive, so it is understandable why this isn’t something immediately determined. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8955456/

Maybe demand in Utah will slow down a bit for winter. I hope so, because I need to downsize before they start falling off of me and it’s getting close to the point of where I can’t put it off any longer.

Is everyone who posted okay with this thread disappearing? I will request it, if so, though nemesis may still leave it.

In many cases to protect men from having to endure the presence of women…except servers, courtesans or outright prostitutes and probably cleaners. Gentlemen’s clubs, for example. Pubs and bars. Ladies rooms at some of said establishments popped up in late 19 century. Iow, traditionally speaking women were part of the service, not the ones being served, kept safe (more often the reverse). All male gyms date back to Ancient Greece. Women only gyms (independent of schools) I believe early 1900s. Fraternal organizations. Need I say more than the name? Barbershops another ancient tradition where female version showed up in modern times. Same with public restrooms as mentioned by webbles earlier. Prior to 19th century “sex segregated” typically meant “no women…’respectable’ at least…allowed” I would describe truly sex segregated spaces (spaces available for both, but each designated for one sex and still not always in equal numbers, not just including one sex and excluding the other) as a hundred and fiftyish year old tradition. About the same length of time as the flush toilet. Potty parity didn’t start to occur in the US until 1989 though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potty_parity Title IX has been around 17 years longer that equal toilet rights for women…and what those rights mean are still being defined…varies by number of fixtures available, floor space, stalls, wait times, etc. Then there were the race segregated public restrooms only ended in 1964. Acting like restroom laws or policy has been set in porcelain forever with its fine traditions proven by the test of time….nah, that’s just ignorance, which is likely pretty common. The history of the Crapper (named for a plumbing company that is still in existence apparently) is all I remember being taught on the subject or anything related in school…and inaccurately at that, probably in history where mortality rates and such started going down due to inventions and public policy using them. Seems to me we haven’t even moved out of the testing stage yet such things, so adjusting here and there based on information properly gathered about practical realities (and not just anecdotal or even speculative ‘evidence’) seems like a wise idea, imo.

Wouldn’t ‘they don’t believe they are transgender, but tell people they are’ be that option? Just like pretending to be a doctor means someone doesn’t believe they are a doctor but tell people they are? Or if you want something purely subjective, they don’t believe they are shy, don’t feel shy, but tell people they are and act in ways they think shy people act….that’s pretending to be shy. And being shy can fen become an identity or part of one’s identity. It certainly was for me for a good chunk of my life, more important than being female as it felt Ike it had a much greater impact on what I could an couldn’t do.