Calm

Thank you, Smac. You itemized most of my concerns here about why I think it’s inappropriate.

And I would be there complaining if I worked in the military. I think it’s completely inappropriate for him to arrange for only his version of religion and not others. If I were Secretary of Defense***, I would ask for volunteers to run the other services and if no one was available, do it myself (or rather assign one of my people) and show up at least once to each version to show there was to be no favoritism…because as Secretary of Defense I would be representing the US, not LDS. If for some reason this was impossible, I would still arrange meetings if needed, but they would be in a private, not government facility and would not be heavily publicized. It would not be anything close to official or paid by tax dollars unless the identical opportunity was not only available, but used by other faiths. I would avoid any possibility that it looked like the LDS faith or any other had a favored status. ***I would never work for a president whose focus was on aggression rather than defense of our country, so most likely there would be a new executive order vacating the previous one restoring the primary official title to use everywhere…plus I believe Congress should get more respect from the Executive branch. Using executive orders to tailor the government to one’s personal taste is a presidential habit I hope gets broken soon. At the very least, it’s a waste of money and time and creates a mass of confusion if controversial and is likely to get reversed or placed on hold judicially.

So the movie is popular in my family. My son has a new 3D printer he’s playing with and yesterday I came down to what looked to me like a ball of poop with limbs on my kitchen island…I thought it was a Transformer that was mid change or something. My husband who had been gifted my son’s latest creation was mortally offended by my description of a walking ball of poop. Obviously it’s Rocky. Never seen a picture of Rocky so how would I spot that? Looking at the Amazon version, it’s quite accurate. And now my daughter has challenged me to a fist fight over my description of him as a ball of poop on legs. Debating whether it’s type 2 or 3 on the Bristol Stool chart now (oh, the things I do to distract my daughter from her discomfort).

Not on Reddit, just read it on occasion. Only stuff I signed up for was FB, YouTube, and this board and I never comment on YouTube and rarely FB. You guys get all my wisdom (unless you count answering questions sent in by email for FAIR).

Are you bothered by the lack of variety? It’s not like there are only white evangelical chaplains in the military. It’s in a government building, a government that is supposed to represent all its people.

Just to be clear, I am not deriding the young man for not saying no after expressing his distaste for his parent’s plans for him. Just wondering why he didn’t given he had gone so far as to make the issues public in the way he did (which would have shocked me at the time for the strength or anger or desperation or whatever gave him the ability to do it, more likely to have been able to find apparent support these days as I have seen those who claimed to be formers members offering places to stay for kids who feel trapped into going…which scared me as the kids would be so vulnerable though no doubt many, maybe even all were sincere offers). That seems like a desperate, last attempt of a fading hope that his parents might love him for who he was. It does not surprise me in the least he disappeared from church afterwards. Maybe from the family as well, being that toxic. It is the only time I have heard of it happening and I am curious about the rest of the story. Maybe he did it to rid himself of the last sense of obligation to them. Hope he found a home for himself he could feel safe in, whatever it was.

Yes, we need to shed the conformity in thought image because this is actually a wide allowable range in most of the peripheral stuff. It’s not surprising we are seen as ridiculously high conformists given how our missionaries look and our WoW standards and a certain look at least in the past with hair and clothing among women, the clean cut look for men (the BYU look, is that still a thing?), but it’s unfortunate (especially when members start believing it as well and thinking of good, solid, faithful members as apostate because they differ in politics or evolution, errancy in leaders and other views.

My problem is when remembering our heritage begins and ends with Christianity. It too often ignores the depth and beauty and complexity of our heritage for a semi patriotic commitment to a particular ideology. Not saying Christianity shouldn’t be as valued or isn’t as beautiful, but it’s like listening to a solo of a piece written to be played by an orchestra or a piano version of a classic rock song and sometimes it’s a rather blah adaptation.

Remarkable what hairstyle and makeup can do. Rickman would not have been in the top 1000 actors I would have considered for playing Reagan. He pulls it off though. (Just saw a still, not the performance, knowing him I assume his performance was excellent) Just remember it’s very loosely based on a real man…sounds like his length of service . I get troubled when they take a real person and then stick him with massive troubles or personal weaknesses to make the film ‘more captivating’ because then too many people think they are getting insight into the real person. It is one of my pet peeves. Thankfully they don’t use the real guy’s name so hopefully people won’t assume such in this case. While I think teaching history visually is a great tool, I prefer documentaries to dramatizations as it’s so easy for fiction to replace the nonfiction in our minds because seeing something sticks so well.

Yeah, I get that. I just would expect someone who had the guts to speak up at church like that (I wouldn’t have) would have first considered the likelihood of being disowned for doing so and thus been mentally prepared to go…what he did comes across as much more humiliating to me than just not going with the drama played out behind closed doors…and second, if he hated it so much as to do that to his parents (not saying they didn’t deserve it), it just seems like he would have been angry enough to walk then. But maybe one thing good for him happened on his mission, he was away from his parents for two years (lot less communication back then) and he knew he could survive without them. I feel really sorry for that kid if it didn’t come across before. For any kid who feels they have to hide who they really are from their parents for more than a short time (because it’s likely all kids don’t want to disappoint their parents even or especially if it’s a loving and supportive relationship and it may take a bit to realize even with a very supportive, understanding parent that they would prefer one not to hide). We have taken in a couple of kids who had abusive parents when they were at the legally adult, but not quite ready to be on their own. It was heartbreaking.

He would have been an adult, could have walked out before if he was going to walk out afterwards when he wasn’t any more prepared financially surely. I am surprised he went with his burn the bridges behind him approach instead of declaring his independence right then and there. They could have disowned him for that if they were as bad as you say. Something like that, it’s smart to pack your bags beforehand, empty any savings account if it’s not your name alone on it and arrange with a friend to stay for awhile.

I think a lot have misconceptions about what scholarship is intended to do. Or maybe what the Church or Gospel requires?

He has been consistently saying this for a long time and I don’t see much difference from when he hung out here or other places I interacted with him.

Thanks for the warning. Something to look forward to…and dread a little, lol

Seen in a couple wards in Utah, my own and ones we visited….all in Utah County. Probably been ten years since last we visited except for my son’s ward as I barely get to my ward these days, not up to attending blessings and baptisms, etc anymore. Hopefully that will eventually change (pain levels much better now, hoping fatigue will eventually lift).

If people say “primarily Christian nation”, it is close enough (I would prefer “majority Christian nation” if not using actual stats for precision). Saying “Christian nation” makes all the rest invisible as if they don’t exist and so does not reflect statistical reality unless one specifies average or typical…which often doesn’t happen. It doesn’t seem that accurate to me to say solely “Christian” alone when over a third are not Christian. Too often I see it used to glorify the Christian way as if we sprang full grown from the head of Christ in 30 AD (or whenever he actually started preaching) independent of any other thought or morality that had been taught in the centuries before instead of mankind having strong traditions before that which provided a basis for Jesus to place his more radical gospel on as well these and other faiths having influence on how Christianity developed in the hands of Christ’s followers.

A lot of Christian principles are universal, not unique to Christianity. Even the more unique principles such as love you enemies and a required forgiveness of others tend to have less radical version in many. The only one I am not sure of being very visible or at least reflected in others is Grace and that may be just because I am thinking of the Christian version. One might be better saying Jewish principles since that faith is seen as coming first, therefore roots of Christianity were buried in Judaism. Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism and some more that also contained much of these principles in their teachings existed before Christianity. Then there’s some Greek Philosophers

Don’t most hear we believe humans can become gods? If so, for a good portion of them that’s crossing the line heresy. We don’t only allow the gap between creator and creature to be bridged, we claim it doesn’t exist in the first place.

My memory says most were young missionary age.

Same with the wards I have been in for 30 years, can’t remember Kansas (pre1990).

You might want to reread what I said….as in the last line, which you quoted.

My experience online is a lot of critics (those who come to attack, not understand) don’t want to share that info. The only information they might share is evangelical (from what you have said, they may be misunderstanding what it means or even trying to avoid criticism that often comes with the label of fundamentalist). My guess is because they don’t want criticism turned on them for their beliefs. If they are there to share their beliefs, they often mention their background pretty quickly, which is always nice imo as it helps fill in a broad framework so I don’t need to bug them as much to feel like I have something to remember them by. Maybe the best option is to use Protestant when it’s pretty clear they are Christian, but not Catholic, Orthodox, or another Restorationist faith, but as someone who used to get labeled Protestant in the distant past before they started offering “other”, that just doesn’t seem right.

I know a couple of LDS kids from active families who chose military instead of missions and their parents were proud of them. My grandson was seriously thinking about it as his aunt is in the military. No one rented garments in our house or his (what a waste of money). We know quite a few older members who went military instead of missions. No one in the ward cares as far as I can tell, we like them as much as return missionaries. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but not as much as you seem to be claiming.

JW would be requesting discharge surely since they don’t serve in supporting military either, such as other pacifists might, so it still seems unnecessary because easily handled on a case by case basis….except perhaps veteran’s benefits, but would there be that many and do they use the same list. Are chaplains assigned to veteran programs based on adherents involved?

Goggle’s AI came up with this, but the source didn’t refer to it, so need to see if there is an actual source: Conscientious Objector Status: The military officially recognizes various faith-based stances on warfare. The records help identify individuals who hold sincere religious objections to combat, allowing them to request non-combatant duties or honorable discharge. [1, 2] Prior Service Converts: Some individuals enlist in the military before converting to the faith. When they formally become Jehovah's Witnesses, their military records are updated to reflect their new religious affiliation. [1] Veterans and Benefits: The military maintains records of all past and present service members, including their religious preferences, to determine eligibility for military benefits, pensions, and specialized chaplain care during and after their service. [1, 2]